I know we don't do politics here... how about unity?

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goon

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OK...
So my apologies to the moderators if this is out of line. I mean no offense and I am not trying to skirt rules.

Having said that, many of the discussions on this board focusing on gun control often reach a point where someone blames "liberals" for this kind of idiocy. Well I've been on this board for years, I think I've got over 5,000 posts, I'd now consider myself a liberal (with hard libertarian leanings), and I support the Second Amendment.
Further, it would appear that New York's Republican controlled Senate and Republican governor have about as much respect for the RKBA as Feinstein does.
Trying to hold this to party lines is not a good strategy to protect our rights. I may disagree with people on the "right" about many things, but I want to sort those disagreements out with those guys under a Constitutional government that respects our rights.
I decided to post this message because of this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwOxpRHpyH8&feature=youtu.be

I am not trying to stir up political arguing on this board. If anything, this is something we should be able to agree on - we all want our guns to defend ourselves, our families, and our liberties.
 
I agree. There are such things as pro-gun liberals and Democrats. We all need to work together to preserve the RKBA.
 
With all due respect, if anyone voted for Obama, then that was part of the problem. We all knew what is before us today was coming as soon as the dust from the election cleared. There are many, many, many issues related to his reelection that surpass the damage that he can possibly reap upon the 2A as well as the entire constitutional process. Weakening one, weakens them all.

Unity, sorry, we are reaping the consequences of many folks choices of which I opposed. At this point, we will simply have to live with that. Perhaps the next election you may consider a different vote if you voted for Obama, that is the only way to find unity in this whole issue, sorry, just the way I see it. We had our opportunity to protect the 2A and the entire constitution, but instead we, as a nation, re-elected the most anti-constitution president ever. My father only voted Republican once in his life, that was a vote against Jimmy Carter, not so much for Reagan. What happened to common sense Democrats who could read the writing on the wall like my dad. He changed course when it became evident that the Democrat was damaging the country he loved. I will never forget that the rest of my life how my dad openly opposed Carter. Perhaps that is a lesson to learn all over again today.

We get to all reap the consequences of that choice together, that is the only unity we will have. We all get to suffer together. As the great Obama states, there are consequences to elections.
 
I didn't like either of our options this go around. I voted for Johnson.

But, I'm pretty decidedly a Libertarian. I think Government should keep it's nose out of our private affairs, whatever those happen to be.

Our US Government is about 10,000 times the size it needs to be to fulfill it's duty.

Hell, most of our STATE Governments are about 10,000 times the size they need to be to fulfill their duties.

Anyway... I don't care what a person's political/sexual/religious persuasion happens to be, or what opinions they have on what subjects. I respect those opinions, everyone has a right to believe what they choose to believe.

When they start trying to dictate what *I* can do with *my* life, that is where I draw the line.

Those people are no longer "civil."

Those people become "the enemy."
 
If you voted for Gary Johnson, then you're quite clearly not a liberal.

From your posts, it seems that you self-apply the term "liberal" because calling yourself a libertarian is something that would cause you to lose face in your social circle.
 
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Most of the ''Libs'' on here seem to be Libertarians, not Liberals. I respectfully submit that those who think that they are Liberals, who own guns, are just not aware that there is another choice. I think even Obama voters are beginning to see how wrong headed THAT choice was. He is not the gun owner's friend, Republican, Democrat or ''Lib'' of either stripe.
 
Justin said:
If you voted for Gary Johnson, then you're quite clearly not a liberal.

From your posts, it seems that you self-apply the term "liberal" because calling yourself a libertarian is something that would cause you to lose face in your social circle.
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Are you getting me and the OP's posts intermingled? He didn't mention voting for Johnson.

I did.

And I don't go around self-affixing the term liberal to myself.

:)
 
We need to find a beltway lawyer, who could squash Obama's plans for a non-profit organization to bolster funds for his anti-Constitutional, anti-American dictates.

There are already too many dictatorial tyrants on this earth, we don't need one more. He has stated repeatedly he will circumvent our checks and balances systems to apply executive orders (actions, I believe they were called this time), and other legislation, with no oversight.

Frankly, I'm tired of this dictatorial tyrant. Perhaps his first order of business outside the scope of government oversight, is to procure a crown?

KingObama_zps6b54ba7c.jpg
 
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BHP FAN said:
Most of the ''Libs'' on here seem to be Libertarians, not Liberals. I respectfully submit that those who think that they are Liberals, who own guns, are just not aware that there is another choice. I think even Obama voters are beginning to see how wrong headed THAT choice was. He is not the gun owner's friend, Republican, Democrat or ''Lib'' of either stripe.
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Oh, I dunno about that.

There are Libs, but Libertarians and Liberals are QUITE different from one another.

For example (steering away from sensitive stuff like abortion, etc);

I personally view entitlement programs (social security, medicare, Obamacare, welfare) as self-destructive to a society. HIGHLY self-destructive to society.

I believe we should gut all of the IRS code and go with a flat tax, same % of income for everyone, and be done with it.

I believe we should open the borders. Want to be a citizen? Great. Here's the Help Wanted ads, knock yourself out. English might not be required, but it'll sure help you read that paper!

I believe if the government can't get a budget put together, they should be forced to cut out programs. FORCED. Not "raise the debt ceiling again, sell more bonds to China, and make our grandchildren pay for it."

Get our troops out of the 150+ countries they're sitting in. The world is a more interesting place when countries have to look after their OWN defense, instead of making ME subsidize it with my tax money.

Yup, I'm that kind of Libertarian.
 
Justin - at this point, I ain't got any kind of social circle that cares what label I wear. Most of my best friends are conservative or even farther right, but they are 4,000 miles away. And they don't care anyhow.

I voted for Johnson this past election because I felt Romney was a buffoon and I had a gut feeling Obama would pull some anti-gun funny business when he was re-elected. In spite of anything else, guns make me a single issue voter and I knew both big candidates were bad news for RKBA. I would have skipped walking my butt to the polls on a very nasty day, but people died to give that right - I had to go and vote. But I don't want to get bogged down on trying to play pin-the-tail-on-goon's-political-ideals. Quite frankly, I am not that interesting and we have bigger fish to fry.

Nor do I actually want to discuss any political issue here other than guns. I don't want to provoke an enormous argument. That's pointless. I would offer to discuss them via PM but honestly, my time is better spent these days writing legislators, so I'll stick to that instead.

My point is though that this isn't broken on party lines. And blaming all Democrats or liberals for the actions of the anti-gun crowd is the same as blaming all republicans for the actions of those who crammed that illegal piece of trash legislation down the throats of all law abiding New Yorkers.
 
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AlexanderA said:
I agree. There are such things as pro-gun liberals and Democrats. We all need to work together to preserve the RKBA.
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I agree. It is just unfortunate that the vast majority of Democrat politicians are anti gun.

If the Democrat party would leave second amendment rights alone I'd call myself a Democrat. Instead I am forced to vote in the other direction because for me the second amendment is a major deal breaker.
 
Pretty much exactly what Kiln just said... That's how I generally feel. Furthermore, I wonder if it isn't partly my fault for NOT registering as a Democrat and helping influence that party to drop the anti-gun stance.
 
Why not just register as a Republican, and be on the right side? I'm a Republican, with strong Libertarian leanings. I basically agree with them {Libertarians} on everything but Israel. I believe you don't abandon your friends. As for the rest of the Middle East, I've noticed no pro-Western stance since we ignored Iran's Green Revolution. I think we should give no military aid to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, or in any other country. This is where I find myself very comfortable with Ron Paul's non-interventionist policy. I voted for Romney though, on the ''anyone but Obama'' ticket.
 
I agree totally. Pro gun Democrats and Liberals exist. I am registered as a Democrat, and have been for many many years. I consider myself a "blue dog", and a dying breed to boot. I find myself voting more and more conservative and libertarian, due to the officials that now lead the party. But I also could not stomach Obama or Romney, and voted for Johnson. Push me on guns and I have no problem checking the "Straight R" on the ticket. It sickens me what a few in my party are pushing, and the majority are following because they are under pressure. I hope one day it finds its way, but the Democrat party has changed a lot in the past 60-70 years.
 
BHP Fan - I am left on environmental issues. Grew up in an area where most of the water runs red from pollution from old open pit coal mines. Blasting from them shakes my parents' house - and no one cares as long as the money keeps flowing. No one is going to repair the foundation of their home and give them an apology. They matter too, even if they are dirt poor rural people.

I also think things like teaching kids about contraception is a good idea that will prevent a lot of problems. Face it guys, we have all been teenagers and we have not all been angels. Just an example. Sorry friend, but I just don't think the right is the place for me.

Like CharlieDeltaJuliet, I am willing to check straight R if I have to, if I feel that I need to help pull the wild crazy anti-gun elements of down a few rungs. But I would vastly prefer the Democrats just stop trying to take guns, not waste money, and be reasonable enough that I can support them.


But this is it on anything other than guns. I set out to start a discussion and don't want to derail it.
 
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goon said:
I also think things like teaching kids about contraception is a good idea that will prevent a lot of problems. Face it guys, we have all been teenagers and we have not all been angels. Just an example. Sorry friend, but I just don't think the right is the place for me.
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Are you saying you want to educate our kids about sex in a sexual education class?
 
Gun-owning liberals want just enough Liberty so they can play with their guns. Beyond that, they support the destruction of Liberty, Virtue, and the perversion of the Constitution.

So, if some liberal thinks owning a gun garners some unity with a Liberty-loving American such as I and perhaps others, they've another think coming.
 
Guess the idea of unity is out then. Thanks for the insight.

Resist Evil said:
"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens." Thomas Jefferson
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Funny though, how some of the ones I know would have nothing but respect for this quote or for the other stuff this guy said. Personally, I think he went too far when he decided to edit the Bible, but that's open to interpretation I guess.
 
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Another Johnson voter here so please don't assume that my comments are defending my own party.

goon, suggesting that the dems and republicans are the same because of what happened in New York state is disingenuous. What defines what a Republican or Democrat is at the end of the day is the party platform. When a Republican votes for gun control they are voting against the expressed position of their party and, at least when it comes to that position that they hold they are a 'bad' Republican. Likewise, when a Democrat votes against more gun control they are a 'bad' Democrat.

As it pertains to 2nd Amendment issues the lines are clearly drawn.

For information on what each party's position is, CLICK HERE.
 
MaterDei - you mean that Mitt Romney, the guy who supported the Massachusetts assault weapons ban in 2004 and was the Republican presidential candidate, was a "bad" republican? Perhaps he should have ran for the Democrats instead...

"Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts," Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony on July 1 with legislators, sportsmen's groups and gun safety advocates. "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

http://www.iberkshires.com/story/14812/Romney-signs-off-on-permanent-assault-weapons-ban.html


I think you would find my stance on the Second Amendment much closer to your own than his. Perhaps I should seek the Republican nomination next time around...
 
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