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I met with the president of the San Diego NAACP a few weeks ago.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DigitalWarrior, Mar 6, 2006.

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  1. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

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    I was in a forum where the president of the San Diego NAACP was invited to speak, and I ended up asking a few questions y'all might be interested in the answers to.

    I wasn't even going to walk in, because I have strong feelings on some of their actions, and I did not want to be disrespectful. However, the man who coordinated it invited me to go inside and talk about my concerns.

    The PoSDNAACP got up and started talking about some of the things they are involved in. He talked about after school programs (good). He talked about maintaining education in the trades, rather than trying to put everyone on a college prep track (really good). He talked about fighting racial profiling (good). And he talked about affirmative action stuff (not good, but not a deal breaker). He talked about how everyone should be a member.

    He then asked if there were any questions. I stood up first to speak, and asked "I understand that the NAACP is involved with several lawsuits against gun manufacturers related to the unfair marketing practices of guns in urban disadvantaged communities because people of color are disproportionally affected by gun-violence."(I can speak good duck-speak when I need to), I continued, "Why is it the policy of the NAACP that the poor and people of color should not be entitled to a means of self-defense?"

    His response was that they were not against the poor being able to defend themselves, but in poor communities there are gun stores on every corner, and that the availability of guns is hurting the community, leading to all kinds of bad stuff.

    I responded that one of my favorite paintings was harriet tubman conducting slaves through a swamp, and in her hands, she held a rifle, which she was nto permitted to do. I mentioned that one of the reasons for jim crow was to make sure that black men could not arm themselves. I mentioned that I thought that only good men obey laws, and the more good men who have guns, the better off everyone would be.

    I said to him "And if it were not for that position of the NAACP, I would already be a member." and took my seat.

    He ended that conversation by saying guns are used to destroy, and that reasonable men can disagree on small things, but agree on the larger issues. What he did not understand was, to me, this is the LARGEST issue.

    But now for the question: I am still thinking about joining, and attempting to change the attitude of the organization from the inside. I just worry about giving material support to the enemy. What do you think?

    Will
     
  2. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    I belive you would be but on little voice crying out and no one listing.
     
  3. SRFL

    SRFL Member

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    ...I'm originally from Harlem (NYC)....I recall that at it's worst during the 70's and 80's, I never...ever....saw a gun shop on any street corner.
     
  4. DocHarman

    DocHarman Member

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    NAACP membership

    I believe the NAACP has a valid point, but they are going about solving the problem incorrectly.

    We can all agree that too many people are murdered with guns. To me, if even one person dies due to a firearm (self-defense excluded), then that is reason for action.

    BUT, restricting access is not the solution. There are other options that are more difficult to enact, compared to the easy solution of "restriction."

    And as far as DigitalWarrior not joining the NAACP due to that ONE issue... well how does that sound? I belong to a ton of organizations, including the NAACP-- even though I disagree with their firearm issues. I believe it is my job to change their stance, while still supporting their other issues.
     
  5. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin member

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    I say that this is a choice you have to make for yourself. I do not agree with alot the NAACP does in this country myself but I do feel they have the right goal in mind; just not the right methods. I feel that they have lost sight of the fact that in today's world color is not as big a factor as it used to be not matter what they think. I think the largest contributing factor that makes you more likely to die violently, not get a proper education, be involved in illegal activity, and generally be discriminated against is wealth and not color. America has moved to being a country of haves and have nots and the haves are working harder than even to keep the have nots under their heel. As far as them being the "enemy", I just do not see that as true. I feel the pro-gun movements worst enemy (and I know I will get flamed for this which just fuels my point) is itself. The days of statements like "from my cold dead hands" are past and too many people hold onto this mentality. I feel that very statement did more to hurt the NRA than anything in history (and judging from the amount of damage control they had to do afterwards I think they would agree). It is a stance that reeks of "let me have my way or else!" and all it does is reinforce the violent image that alot of people associate with firearm owners. It is akin to the gay rights pig headed stance on the term marriage instead of accepting equal protection under civil unions. When you become too militant you sometimes just rally your enemies and harm yourself.
     
  6. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I believe your thoughts there are correct. It's unfortunate.

    I have used a similar argument about gun laws being racist in that the so called "Saturday Night Special" laws, getting rid of very low cost handguns, are racist because some of the folks that need protection the most cannot afford a high end firearm (and since they are not criminals they won't buy one off the street)

    Those arguments fall on deaf ears.

    In your case you are right. If the organization considers the ability of it's members to defend themselves a "smaller issue" then your money and time would be better spent elsewhere.
     
  7. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    You should have called his bluff on this one.

    ~G. Fink
     
  8. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

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    Unfortunately, I have to agree with Michael T.
     
  9. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Putting the blame on guns is easier than admiting that the root of the problem is the lack of family supervision, and community support. If guns are banned will that stop gangs? Crime? Drugs? Violence? School drop outs? :confused:

    Kevin
     
  10. progunner1957

    progunner1957 member

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    IMO, some people and some institutions are too far gone to ever see the light in regards to the gun issue. I have a few friends that are like that - we can get along as long as we don't talk about gun issues, so we talk about things that we can agree on.

    I think that joining the NAACP and working within it to try to change hearts and minds would be a waste of your time. Organizations such as this, that have socialism as their core belief system will not change. Gun banning is one of the holy grail tenets of the socialist political philosophy, and it is not something they are willing to give up.

    Look at the Democratic party as an example - there can be no denying that their core belief system is socialism. Their insistence in pushing gun control has cost them dearly on election day in recent years, yet they refuse to let go of their pathalogical obsession with stripping We The People of our right to arms. I would fully expect the NAACP to be as myopic regarding gun control as the Democratic party.

    I have come to believe that the only thing that will change the mind of a dyed-in-the-wool antigun bigot is a "Come to Jesus" experience, such as a mugging, robbery, rape, car jacking or other violent criminal attack that they are helpless to repel because they are unarmed, or such an attack where an armed citizen comes to their rescue.

    Such a traumatic event will open the eyes of an antigun bigot - I have read of several instances where this has happened, converting the antigun victim into a gun carrying citizen who will not be victimized again. The sad thing is, sometimes even a "Come to Jesus" encounter will not change the mind of a gun hater. There is none so blind as those who will not see.

    Personally, I have given up on trying to convert the hardened antigun bigot and have concentrated my efforts on winning over those who are fence-sitters regarding gun issues. They at least still have somewhat of an open mind - which is something the gun haters do not have. I also work for the gun cause by writing to elected officials, and contributing money to active progun organizations, such as the NRA, JPFO and GOA. These organizations are taking the battle to the halls of Congress and to the courts on our behalf, and they need and deserve our financial support.

    IMHO, joining the NAACP or another organization that is steeped in antigun bigotry is a no-go. Giving them one dollar of support or one hour of work is called "Sleeping with the enemy." It is like telling your wife, "But honey, I only cheated a little bit..."

    We who believe in and fight for our gun rights must not aid the enemy of our rights, even in small ways - those little things inevitably add up to major contributions to the enemies of our cause.
     
  11. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I disagree ... better a lone voice crying out than no voice (of course its easy for me to ask DigitalWarrior to enter the lions den).

    Generally arguing with antis does nothing to change their minds, but the fence sitters watching the argument can be reached.

    Completely giving up on the NAACP is understandable, but if a few little voices cry out for the self defense rights of blacks, more may join in.
     
  12. bdutton

    bdutton Member

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    I would not join. The NAACP will take your money and use it to further their anti-gun agenda.
     
  13. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Uhh . . . from the very name of the organization, it's not just antigun bigotry they're steeped in. In their own way, groups like the NAACP are just as odious, just as exclusionary, just as disgustingly racist as the Klan or any skinhead group. But they're tolerated because of media & poltical dual standards. :barf: (If you doubt this, just think how a group called "NAAWP" would fare on the public stage. Especially if their "affirmative action" platform were to include, say, professonal sports such as the NBA.)
    Considering that the original full name of "Saturday Night Special" was "N*ggertown Saturday Night Special" I'm surprised the racist origin of the term doesn't get more attention.
     
  14. cordex

    cordex Member

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    The national Republican party will develop libertarian tendencies before you change the stance of the NAACP on guns one iota.

    And I really, really don't see the Republican party being interested in any libertarian positions any time soon.

    As for this ...
    Yeah! Sing it brother!
    В победе бессмертных идей коммунизма
    Мы видим грядущее нашей страны,
    И Красному знамени славной Отчизны
    Мы будем всегда беззаветно верны!


    It's not the "haves" keeping the "have nots" down ... it's the "have nots" who want to vote themselves bread and circuses paid for with cash from the pockets of those who are working for what they have.
     
  15. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

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    Its not the number of gun shops. You have to pass a background check to shop there, so 1 store in another state or 100 stores on your corner wont change a damn thing about the level of violence.

    I think it would be blatently ignorant of history to then say modern black men can no longer be trusted to defend themselves. If this is how the NAACP feels, I couldnt support them no matter what else they promise.

    Its like a banker who screws up on a simple math problem but offers you a "nice" deal for a car loan... Exactly where the hell is this arrangement going?

    If they cant manage the basics, discussing other matters is most likely pointless. Any other view they have is also likely to be dangerously wrong.
     
  16. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin member

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    Cordex, you vast knowledge of economics is overwhelming.
     
  17. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    I will always applaud people like yourself for speaking up and letting your opinion be heard. Work at the grass roots level. Black folks are tired of the voilence, they are tired of being sold on the crap from the NAACP on their antigun issues. Find a following and the will come. I grew up in the country in Georgia and never heard of black on black crime until I left home as a grown man. Let it be known that it is not the guns that are not doing this, it is the people. There is no shame in getting the word out. I applaud Bill Cosby in shaking the youth by the throat so to speak, in truying to place values were they belong.
     
  18. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    Where's Ken Blanchard when you need him?

    Nothing wrong with starting a lobbyist group for gun enthusiasts that happen to be of a race other than caucasian. Kinda like "Pink Pistols", but black. Brown. Red. Whatever.

    Get a good buncha members, then have the "Black Pistols" join the NAACP as a group. Work on the NAACP from the inside. Nothing brings platform change like a very vocal membership.

    As to the idea that in "...today's world color is not as big a factor as it used to be not matter what they think..." - Well I just have to disagree. I've been poking around on MySpace a little lately. Even made my own profile. I see racism all over... Sometimes it's blatant, sometimes it's covert. Sometimes, the racist doesn't even know he/she is being racist. It's still a problem, and IMO, it's something humans are never going to be completely without.

    Along with helping foster the separation of "haves" and "have nots", our society has encouraged segregation, keeping "have nots" restricted to certain areas, where rents are low. Real estate prices have gone so high where I live that most people that work here (cops, firefighters, etc) can't afford to live in the county. Good for me, not good for America as a whole.

    I would encourage the organization of a nation-wide group of minority gun owners, if for no other reason than to reinforce the idea that equality really means equality. In all things.
     
  19. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Why thank you, comrade!
     
  20. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

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    I wasn't going to talk about the modern racism issue but...

    I have a great example:
    A talented electical engineer that I work for needed a bit I never heard of, so he goes to a supply house and asks for it. He is told "that part doesn't exist, you really mean xxx". He said no I mean I need a yyy. He was told again, "look, you probably heard your boss wrong, you want an xxx"

    So he pulls a broken yyy out of his pocket and says, "This is a yyy and I need it to do such and such for the thingie I am building."

    This happened last week.

    Expectations of incompetance suck
    Will
     
  21. cordex

    cordex Member

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    November 23rd.

    I love books.

    Of course, if you truly believe that the "little man" needs unions and their "progressive" politics to be successful, perhaps you'd better keep that history book and maybe forgo buying me another dictionary in favor of buying yourself an economics book. Preferably not one published in Hollywood. ;)

    Unions have their place but for the most part they're leeches at best. Fair wages are what the employee and employer agree is fair. Safe working conditions are important. Any American seeking a truly good education for themselves or their children can find one for little or no monetary cost ... and I'm not talking about public schools.

    I'm still not sure what all that has to do with the "haves" keeping the "have nots" under their heel.
     
  22. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    Here is my problem with people like this ("activists"). These guys put politics above all else. For example, this man has no problem with telling a bald faced lie right to the faces of a gathering of people who he is trying to interact with in a proffesional manner. When did this become OK?
     
  23. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Drifting a bit, but some perspective:

    Back some 30 years ago, the "usual suspects" in Congress started beating the drum to outlaw cheap handguns. The then-members of the Black Caucus were near unanimous in objecting, crying racism against poor people.

    Then, as now, there was a strong relationship between the Black Caucus in Congress and the NAACP.

    Times change. Views change, and not necessarily for the betterment of the "membership".

    I support working from within to effect change. One should be prepared, however, to realize that sometimes one is emulating Don Quixote.

    Art
     
  24. bogie

    bogie Member

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    "Sir, if you think that there is a gun shop on every street corner, or even in every square mile, of any major urban area, then I suspect that you haven't been in too many of those areas lately."
     
  25. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    I would not join.
    I see no reason to support my country's enemies (anti gun organizations) with my money and membership count.
     
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