I might be done with handloading... LOL

[Newtosavage]

I had one of those days at the range that just makes a person re-evaluate why they spend so much time handloading.

I've been struggling with a new-to-me Ruger 77 stainless in .208 Rem - trying to come up with a reasonable 400-yard Elk load. I purchased 60 new Norma cases, several powders and bullets, and went to work. A few showed promise, but not really the kind of accuracy I was hoping for (sub-MOA). I eventually bedded the action and it seemed to help, but none of my handloads were giving me what I wanted. Neither accurate enough nor consistent enough for my tastes.

So yesterday I saw a box of Federal Premium ammo in .280, using the 150-grain Nosler Partitions ( a bullet on my short list for Elk hunting) and while pricey, I decided to buy a box.

Well, I sit here both glad that I did, and somewhat disappointed too. You see, the first two rounds from a cold barrel were touching at 100 yards. I let the barrel cool, anticipating the next shot, and finally cut loose round three. It fell within .75" of the first for a 3-shot .75" group!

I was almost giddy, but at the same time aggravated that I hadn't been able to do that with my handloads. I then made some scope adjustments for what I hoped to be a 200-yard zero with that ammo, and walked a paper face out to 200 yards whereon I drew a 3" box with a sharpie. I figured if I could get all my rounds inside that at 200, I had found my Elk load.

Well, the first shot told the story. DEAD center. 200 yards and dead center. I let the barrel cool and shot one more, and it was less than 1/2" away from the first.

Good news is that I have found THE ammo for my rifle. The bad news is that I now feel like I'm wasting my time handloading for this gun, and I sit here with two sets of dies and about 100 .280 cases with no purpose.

Anyone else ever run into this?

 

[Newtosavage]

I should add that I arrived at the same conclusion recently with my Savage model 10 in 7.62x39 - finding some steel case hollow point ammo for $5.49/box that consistenty shoots sub-MOA. I can't even load it for that much, and if I could I am not sure I can beat that accuracy!

So now I have two rifles that seem to prefer factory ammo. What's a reloader to do?

 

[Kendal Black]

Sell those rifles?

More seriously, though, my feeling is that what the factory can do I can do, so in a situation like this, a complete inventory of what I am doing in my loading procedures would be in order, including the question of what bullets I'm using.

In the .280 load that is acting like such a show pony, you already know what bullet, case and primer go into the factory cartridge. You only don't know the powder and charge. Your fabrication steps may differ from factory: How so? I call this narrowing down the list of suspects.

 

[Axis II]

have you tried using the cases and exact bullets for reloading the factory ammo uses? For instance my savage 223 wont shoot Winchester ammo for nothing! even the expensive varmint ammo is all over the place, 50gr and 53gr hornady superformance shoots like 00 buckshot, 55gr hornady v max factory shot 5 shots in about the size of a baseball. Now...I took 55gr v max bullets, hornady cases and tried about 3 powders and seating depths until I got 5 to touch each other. I basically took my best factory shooting load and copied it and made it better.

Play with seating depth a little bit just make sure you not jammed into the lands and see what your best shooting reload bullet does and keep messing with it. I started with h335 and standard primers and couldn't get anything to group tighter than a golf ball and reloadron recommended magnum primers so I reworked the load from min-almost max and now all those rounds touch the first hole. I shot reloads the other day and seated at 2.235 which was what would chamber comfortably and not touch rifling and it shot like crap with a proven powder and primer that worked before. Well I found my dummy round I made last year and its 2.230 OAL and now she's back where it needs to be.

 

[JRWhit]

+1, I would be comparing everything I could from the factory handloads to the factory loads. Given that it has been a problem for more than one rifle I would be concerned about the press staying true from round to round.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I haven't been loading ammo long enough to help you.
What I can do is offer some moral support.

I suspect once you get into the right mindset you'll find the right combo. Then look out.

 

[someguy2800]

Perfect, now you know what bullet to buy and what velocity you should be going for!

 

[Newtosavage]

First three shots from the Federal Premium ammo at 100...

 

[Newtosavage]

So I make the scope adjustment and put a target up at 200. This is what I get. LOL. Next round was 1/2 from it. Aaaaand Done.

 

[Newtosavage]

Perfect, now you know what bullet to buy and what velocity you should be going for!

Yea, I have been itching to try those 150 partitions for a while now, which is why when I saw them in the Federal Premium load, I had to at least give them a try.

 

[Dill]

Perfect, now you know what bullet to buy and what velocity you should be going for!

exactly!

 

[Axis II]

Yea, I have been itching to try those 150 partitions for a while now, which is why when I saw them in the Federal Premium load, I had to at least give them a try.

measure the factory rounds with calipers and use your fired cases from federal and see what she does make sure to let us know how it does. worked well for me.

 

[Newtosavage]

+1, I would be comparing everything I could from the factory handloads to the factory loads. Given that it has been a problem for more than one rifle I would be concerned about the press staying true from round to round.

I tried this for my 7x57 but unfortunately 140 grain Core-Lokt's (what that gun seems to prefer) are no longer available and the 150's were almost awful. That gun, I believe, is going to find a new home.

I had a suspicion this .280 would shoot. I saw some promise from a few of my initial loads, and even my batch of handloads today (IMR 4350 and Hornady Interlocks) were no worse than 1.25" at 100 and 2" at 200. I just don't think I have the experience to get the kinds of groups some of you are getting with the handloads. I mean, I can get close to factory ammo (better than some) but can't really improve on the best factory loads I've found for any of my three main rifles.

 

[Newtosavage]

measure the factory rounds with calipers and use your fired cases from federal and see what she does make sure to let us know how it does. worked well for me.

Well, at $37/box, I'm kinda stuck between "making brass" from those Federal Premium factory loads, and just saving them for this fall's Elk hunt. However I do have a few now to play with and you can bet the next bullets I use will be 150 Partitions seated at the same depth as the Federal loads.

For whatever reason, both of my Ruger 77's seem to prefer a pretty good "jump" to the lands.

 

[jmorris]

It's not for everyone, you won't be the first to start then stop. Even more never even start.

Some folks would enjoy your predicament, having something that works great and all the components to see what really makes a winning combination, what makes no difference and what has negative effects.

 

[Newtosavage]

2nd round at 200. I just packed it in after that. LOL

 

[Newtosavage]

This is what $5.49/box (20) Academy "Monarch" brand hollow point 7.62x39 is giving me at 100 yards from my Savage. The components cost me that much!

 

[Newtosavage]

It's not for everyone, you won't be the first to start then stop. Even more never even start.

Some folks would enjoy your predicament, having something that works great and all the components to see what really makes a winning combination, what makes no difference and what has negative effects.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy. It was a great day at the range. And yes, those Federal rounds are now like a "road map" for my .280 from here forward. If nothing else, I have to use up the lb. of powder and two boxes of 7mm bullets I just bought.

 

[jmorris]

...I have to use up the lb. of powder and two boxes of 7mm bullets I just bought.

That's the "test and tune" part, some people love it, some hate it.

 

[readyeddy]

5 rounds of factory 280 Rem may not give you an accurate picture of the load's accuracy.

Try taking 20 rounds of factory ammo and 20 rounds of your hand loads. Shoot four ten round groups with 4 minutes between shots, clean the bore after 20 shots, then see which load is more accurate.

 

[Bayourambler]

I know where you are, after burning a couple pounds of powder I'm finally reaching the performance of certain factory loads!!! I haven't been doing this long but now know to pay close attention to the factory rounds that work. I'm closing in on a winner! Hopefully!!! Oh yea, I don't see the savings, im spending a small fortune!! I want to shoot all of the time now testing!! But it's fun!

 

[Newtosavage]

5 rounds of factory 280 Rem may not give you an accurate picture of the load's accuracy.

Try taking 20 rounds of factory ammo and 20 rounds of your hand loads. Shoot four ten round groups with 4 minutes between shots, clean the bore after 20 shots, then see which load is more accurate.

Oh, I'm fully aware of that. It was 92 degrees here today in SE Texas and if all goes according to plan, it's probably going to be 30 degrees and 9K feet higher where I intend to use this combination. So plenty more testing to do for sure. But it's probably the best "start" I've had so far - factory or handload.

 

[Newtosavage]

I know where you are, after burning a couple pounds of powder I'm finally reaching the performance of certain factory loads!!! I haven't been doing this long but now know to pay close attention to the factory rounds that work. I'm closing in on a winner! Hopefully!!! Oh yea, I don't see the savings, im spending a small fortune!! I want to shoot all of the time now testing!! But it's fun!

Yes, that's the best part. It's an excuse to shoot a lot and even if I do end up choosing the factory ammo, I'm going to be that much more familiar with my rifle. So that's a big bonus.

 

[FROGO207]

The actual bullet can make a world of difference in accuracy I have found. I would buy a box of that exact bullet ( not just one that is the same weight /shape), use the factory brass and use one of the factory rounds to set my depth and crimp with then load up some ammo with different charges.-----Just to see what might happen. As a couple on here have said you know what brass, bullet, and seating depth works in factory ammo so trying different propellants just makes your task less confusing. FWIW I had one 308 that would produce a shotgun pattern at 50 YDS with any bullet at any weight I tried------until I tried 150 grain Core Lokt SP bullets those were like a laser in that rifle. You just never know. Good luck finding that magic combo.

 

[Bayourambler]

For me it all came together when I measured the fed premium col and stuck to it.