I move for a moratorium on "The VT students should have rushed the gunman" talk.

[Joe Demko]

This thread needs locked. The signal to chest-thumping ratio is unacceptably low.

 

[Johnny_Yuma]

Cancel that moratorium

I AM a person with training who has done many VIP details, call responses, arrests, search warrants, etc. etc. and etc. I train for active shooter situations at least a couple of times each year. I'm not an "armchair commando" but a veteran LEO. I am in agreement with those whom you criticize.

In the event one is confronted with a similar situation, I believe the best chance for survival is to attack the gunman, even if unarmed. I stand by that. THE STUDENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF RUSHING THEIR KILLER. It is something we SHOULD discusss and mentally prepare for. It's tragically apparent that most or all of the murderer's victims did not.

You can stick your head in the sand out of "respect" or you can learn from the misfortune and mistakes of others. The choice is yours.

Johnny

 

[jlbraun]

@Johnny Yuma

If you, sir, as a veteran LEO, had been in this situation, unarmed, and a killer had busted in - if you had done anything less than charge the killer and attempt to disarm him, people on THR would be calling for your job and calling you incompetent. Why? Because you would be incompetent. Because you have been trained, mentally prepared, conditioned, and not to mention PAID to respond to these things by acting in defense of others instantly. We EXPECT extraordinary things from you, it's your job, and you'd better do it right.

You and I both know that the kids would, on balance, be better off if a few had charged the gunman. Would you have? You damn well better have, it's your job. Would I? I don't know honestly. I've done a few gun disarms in a class - big deal. Knowing that, would you, as a trained LEO expect me to fly at the gunman, knowing my level of minimal training?

Expecting coordinated heroism to spring from these untrained, un-Bulletproof Minded kids and second-guessing them when it doesn't happen is indeed Armchair Commandoing - even if a Commando is doing it.

 

[Johnny_Yuma]

Knowing that, would you, as a trained LEO expect me to fly at the gunman, knowing my level of minimal training?

Yes, if you want to have a chance at living.

Please consider that you may one day actually face such a situation. It's not about heroism; it's about pragmatism. I don't condemn those dead and wounded kids. I pity them and I am sympathetic to the loss their loved ones are feeling right now.

Some kids managed to jump from a window and survive. Good for them! That was smart and took guts because it was NOT a ground-floor window. Most of the classroom would not have been in a position to make such an escape. I'll repeat my assertion that their best chance at living was to attack.

The limiting factor is often mindset. People can't fight back if they refuse to accept that they are in a fight. Even trained, armed police officers have died with their weapons holstered because they refused to believe they were at war with someone. Most people refuse to contemplate that they will ever be in a fight for their lives. Right now, American's minds are reeling at this asault on their calm, safe reality. People are actually more comfortable viewing things like this as an uncontrolable event, that it was just fate; "There was nothing anyone could do!" Some will go back to the reassuring belief that this was an anomolous event and that they never need to worry about evil men. Others will consider this event and decide that the world is not a safe place and will prepare themselves mentally and physically (including arming themselves) to fight. Those of us who would prepare to fight must consider the reality of the violence in our modern world. We must consider the plights of victims and the triumphs of survivors if we are to be prepared. We must pick apart what worked and what did not work.

It doesn't matter that things like this shouldn't happen and that good people shouldn't have to consider making a desperate charge against an evil, armed killer. What matters is that this is the way the world is and we can either plan for chaotic events or simply let them happen to us. I choose to examine and discuss the ugly, horrible events of our times and certainly will not be stopped by criticism that it is ignoble or macabre. I hope you and others will come to do the same.

Johnny

 

[BullfrogKen]

Closed.

Political commentary belongs in S&T. The "are we sheep or are we heros" talk isn't an S&T discussion.