I need some advice please...

[tmackay]

I'd like to get into bp shooting with a colt-style pistol. I'd be for fun and maybe emergency HD. I was looking at Pietta's 1851 Navy .44 with 5-1/2 or 7-1/2in barrles, or Uberti's 1860. I'm going to assume that the loading rod(?) on the 5-1/2 will be shorter and harder to pull, but any help on the revolvers and any feedback would be appreciated!
Thanks!

 

[scrat]

Ok i will be the first to give this a try. I have a pietta 1851 Confederate Navy 44. Purchased from Cabelas. I also have a 1860 Army 44. The differences in the loading levers are very marginal. Shooting both of them you dont even notice a difference. Both guns are very similar in the way they function. they both shoot very very good. I would suggest learning more about BP guns before purchasing one. Now lets look at a deaper issue.

purchasing a gun for HD. I WOULD NEVER EVER recomend keeping a black powder revolver loaded. This is not a regular firearm. It should only be loaded then capped before using. There for a black powder revolver would not make a good HD gun. Powder should be kept in its original container. then tranfered to a powder flask only when its going to be used. Then measured and poured into the revolver before use.

ok black powder can not be wet. it will not fire if wet. If kept in the revolver in humid conditions it may or may not fire. Same time black powder is a corrosive powder. The powder is not good to leave in the revolver.

 

[Shawnee]

Welcome to the forum, TM !

You've come to the right place because several of the lads frequenting this Blackpowder forum are very, very knowledgable, including a fellow named "M.E.C." who has written a book on C&B guns that is probably THE most useful work in a century or so.

All I can offer is opinion, and the first one I'll offer is to participate here and you'll quickly get comfortable with your new ventue.

Another (opinion) I'll offer is to look seriously at the Uberti 1861 and/or 1862 Navy models as they incorporate some nice improvements over the 1851 Navy.

Am betting you'll like the "regulars" here and I know you'll learn from 'em, so pull up a chair and enjoy the ride.

 

[Donny]

Loading and using BP revolvers is not difficult or complicated. The only downside to most who start out with them is the tedious and lengthy cleaning routine you must follow immediately after every shooting session. I have my routine down to 45 minutes to an hour. As far as leaving them loaded I would have to disagree with Scrat. A properly maintained and loaded Cap and Ball revolver is very reliable and I have left mine loaded up to 3 weeks and then taken them out to shoot. Every round shot without a hitch. I have read of other fellas leaving them loaded for much longer without a problem. As far as using one for defense, well that is a topic frequently debated on sites like this one. Most will tell you that with the abundance of reliable hard hitting cartridge guns available why trust your life to a reproduction gun disigned over a hundred years ago. That is an arguement that I can't dispute yet a carefully maintained and loaded cap and ball is very reliable, accurate and deadly. Even by todays standards a .44 cal Colt or Remington on your hip will by no means leave you under gunned. Within its limits around capacity and reloading the cap and ball is every bit as capable of defending life and taking life as most modern handguns. I often carry mine when fishing or hunting in case I run into 4 or 2 legged preditors who won't take no for an asnwer. That being said, if I knew my chances of running into serious trouble were high I'd leave the cap and ball at home and bring my .38 loaded with plus P hollow points.

Don

 

[Pulp]

Like the others I don't recommend a percussion revolver for self defense. There was a time when that's all I had, so that's what I kept by the bed. It's sure better than saying, "Would you mind waiting outside while I dial 911?"

I have kept mine loaded for up to 6 months without issue.

I'm not sure what Donny does for a cleaning routine, but I clean mine in about 15 minutes, then once or twice a year take them completely apart for a thorough cleaning. I left one in the gun case for about 4 months after a big cowboy action shoot, and nothing bad happened to it. But I am VERY liberal with Bore Butter and Ballistol during a shoot.

 

[tmackay]

I appreciate the welcome and the feedback so far! The reason I mentioned home defense is that I'm 18 and unnable to buy a cartridge handgun. I've got an M4 and 12gauge that are my primary HD but I wanted something more smaller and more portable. So, home defense asside, what oppinions do people have in regard to the weapons?

 

[BullRunBear]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

I was in your situation a few months ago, wanting a Colt style C&B, and got some great advice here. I ended up with a Uberti 1860 Army, 8" barrel. If possible, I suggest you handle the different models (1851, 1860, and 1861) with different barrel lengths to see which balances best and 'feels' right in your hand. The differences are subtle but noticeable. I doubt you will have any great amount of trouble with the shorter barrel rammer. The one piece of advice I can offer is to go with a steel, as opposed to brass, frame gun.

WARNING! These guns are fun and addictive. I fully expect to end up with a match to my 1860 Army, and probably a fixed sight Ruger Old Army. These things are accurate. I shoot C&Bs better than many modern handguns, at least to 25 yards. Clean up takes me about 15 or 20 minutes and I'm very thorough about cleaning. And I really enjoy the pace of BP shooting.

I sorta envy you. I'm 3 times your age and wish I had learned about these great guns when I was 18 instead of in my 50s.

Regards, Jeff

 

[scrat]

still caution on loading a cap and ball. here is another thing to think of. You load it up. keep it by the bed a few months go by. ok no problem. So you decide to go to the range. now you have a loaded revolver. Transporting a loaded firearm in CA would take you to the big house if you get caught. so on a public forum i would greatly advise not to do it. You could of course take it apart and keep the cylinder seperate. Just if you ever did get pulled over or get caught with it. you would have a lot of questions to answer to. Now if you want to step it up a notch and get something with a little more beef. I would suggest a Uberti Walker. Its an awesome gun. You can later on purchase a conversion cylinder to fire regular cartridge ammo for it. This would be the best thing since sliced bread. so think of it you have the walker. change the cylinder pop in 6 rounds of black hills 45 long colt. then keep it by the bed. One day you decide to go shooting or use it for black powder. So you take out the cylinder remove the 6 rounds now your legal to transport.

 

[B yond]

So you decide to go to the range. now you have a loaded revolver. Transporting a loaded firearm in CA would take you to the big house if you get caught.

In CA it must be loaded with powder, ball, AND cap to be loaded. Just pop the caps off for the drive to the range and you're all good. Still, the cop who stops you might not know that.

 

[Misfire99]

In CA it must be loaded with powder, ball, AND cap to be loaded. Just pop the caps off for the drive to the range and you're all good. Still, the cop who stops you might not know that.

Count on them not knowing that or at lest not wanting to know that. It looks good in their jacket to have a few gun busts. Even if they don't go to court.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Lawd! Eighteen years old..When I was 18 I was part of something called 'Force Recon' working in a place I made it a point to forget as soon as possible as much as I could.
Look here. If you keep a cap&ball loaded, about once a week change your caps. Learn to do this as a matter of routine. Sooner if the revolver has been exposed to rain or any type of heavy moisture.
The caps will probably still be alive and in perfect working order so be careful how you dispose of them. You're simply changing them to 'make sure'. Don't just reach over and drop them in the ashtray like I done one time.
After you pop the caps off, before you poke the new ones on, remove the cylinder. Roll it around a little and gently but firmly tap it all around against the table top a few times. This equates to the same thing as tapping your rifle rounds against the stock a couple of times before loading them into the magazine. It insures that the powder is loosened up inside of the chambers and will help to give a clean, even burn.
Keep something like Crisco smeared over the mouth of the chambers. This will help stop flash over's from one chamber to the next.
However, the Crisco will also seal up the mouth of the chambers and will keep moisture from entering. You will end up with a sealed unit and you can carry it for many a long day without worrying about a mis-fire. Those powder charges in those chambers can ride there just as well as they can in a flask or in the original container they came in and they won't damage your gun one bit. Won't hurt the powder either.
Be careful with it and take good care of it.
Well, that's my part of it..That's the way it goes on here. You read and you think and you learn a little from first this one, then that one, and right on down the line...Okay, Good Luck...

 

[bigbadgun]

Tmackay welcome to the forum
I f you do decide to keep it loaded by the bed for HD remember only load 5 chambers and let the hammer rest on the 6th just to be on the safe side.
Ok now then on to bigger and better things. So you are in a spot where you need to make a big decision an 1851 or a 1860 like was mentioned before if you can handle the piece first that would be best but you also need to look at your wallet, how much are you looking to spend? If you want a good gun at a low price check this out
http://possibleshop.com/cap-ball-closeout.htm
I have this revolver and like it very much and you cant beat the price.
I ordered it and had it in my had in less than a week.But then if you arent really worried to much about price then I would suggest a Walker .Big gun big bang and alot of smoke.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com
Dixie has one of the best selections online.

 

[mykeal]

tmackay -

Welcome.

First of all, read the post entitled "Black Powder Essentials" at the top of this forum. There are several posts in there with some excellent advice, including Part 1 of the series.

Second, with respect to "which gun to buy" - there is no single answer to that. A handgun is a personal choice, depending on many factors that cannot be easily described or measured. The only thing you can do is go to a gun shop and handle a few to see what your body likes.

That being said, it's likely you won't stop with just one. This is a bit of an addiction, so there's little chance of buying the "wrong" gun at any time.

There are some classic "starting out" guns: the .36 cal 1851 Colt Navy, the .44 cal 1858 Remington New Army and the .44 cal 1860 Colt Army. Frankly, you can't go wrong with any of those. They each have their pros and cons, and they are different from each other, but each is an excellent choice for it's own reasons. Over the past 30+ years I've found that the 1851 Navy seems to be the most popular, but it's a very small margin.

So go to a store and handle them. And if you can't do that, pick one, order it, and be prepared for some sore face muscles because you won't be able to stop grinning.

I'm not even going to try to weigh in on the HD issue. Any gun is better than no gun, given that you carefully follow ALL the safety rules.

And BTW, scrat, black powder, real or substitute is NOT corrosive. The combustion products are mildly corrosive, but the powder itself is not. That's a fact, not an opinion.

 

[tmackay]

If you want a good gun at a low price check this out
http://possibleshop.com/cap-ball-closeout.htm
I have this revolver and like it very much and you cant beat the price.

I was under the impression that Traditions were of lesser quality, but I may be wrong. I'm in college with a limited income so I'd like to save a little money but I don't want a pos gun (if you know what I mean). I want to stay under $250 so the walker's a little out of that range!

P.S. Does anyone know of a place that has the 1851 in .44 besides midway? That might be the deciding factor: the instant gratification of it being in stock. I'm also looking at the .36 now...

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Cabela's===1-800-237-4444/1-800-237-8888....
<Cabela's.com>
On Cabela's offical site look in upper left and click 'hunting supplies'.
On new window look about the middle of the page under 'blackpowder'
and click 'blackpowder pistols'........

 

[bigbadgun]

Tmackay
traditions are Pietta I have the pistol from the possible shop I love it.
I have heard what you are talking about with traditions but since Beretta has purchased Uberti I have also heard the same thing now about them.
And Pietta makes a very solid product.

 

[mykeal]

Does anyone know of a place that has the 1851 in .44 besides midway?

Cabela's $240 steel frame
Cabela's $140 brass frame
Arms to Armor $200 steel frame
EMF $190 steel frame
Taylor's $210 steel frame or $180 brass frame

 

[Pancho]

I am infatuated with my brace of 1862 Colt Police. You can't tell much from the pictures because they look just like a 1860 Colt Army but the 62 is about 2/3rd the size of a Colt Army.
As for HD It is hard to beat a shotgun especially a pump. There have been a lot of bad guys throw their hands up at the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber. A single barrel shot gun or a revolver is the ultimate in simplicity when the adrenaline is flowing. Of course the single shotgun should have spare ammo at hand.

 

[Preposterous!]

Just been reading this - and I recall a post about an original cap & ball that was found amongst the effects of an elderly lady that had passed on...

I may have some of the details wrong, but apparently she kept the c&b revolver loaded by the bed for HD for years, with each chamber sealed over both ends with candle wax to keep out the damp. It was dripped round the caps and over the ends of the chambers.

If I remember the story right, all chambers fired first time when it was tried.

Be VERY careful with the candle flame if you attempt this!

Preposterous!

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Preposterous! How're you doing tonight? Well I trust. Good to hear from you.
Yes, you're right. I don't remember the details but I remember something about that.
Hey, when I was about 9 or 10 years old 2 other young boys found an old cave (close to the Tennessee line yet the entrance they discovered was still in Alabama back behind their homes, although the cave seemed to run on into Tennessee) and they went in it. They found several items that had evidently been hidden there by members of the Confederate States of America's Armed Forces.
Anyway, there were 2 loaded muskets in there with the stuff. No money, or at least if there was everybody concerned kept their mouth shut about it.
Both of the muskets fired first try and they'd been loaded since the War Between The States.
Yeah, I remember it well. My Mother and Daddy and people all around that part of the country were talking about it...

 

[JBB]

The '58 Remington repo has a notched cylinder that lets the hammer rest between the capped ones (if you wish to load all six chambers). Don't know from experience, but all I have read that you may leave the chambers loaded for an extended period without harm.

 

[Pancho]

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[tmackay]

So how bad are brass frames really?

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Don't own one. I know they are weaker than a steel frame. I understand that as long as one uses the proper load they will last. I also understand that if you shoot them with a heavy charge, then over a period of time the frame will stretch.
If I were you, which I'm not, I would bite the bullet and buy a good steel frame. They're only a few dollars more. Tell all your little girl friends that they'll just have to be happy with McDonald's for a little while. They'll understand.
If you are planning on hunting (small game, although they will kill a white tail deer or hog if you're pretty close and know how to shoot) or for using it for personal defense or home defense, get the .44 caliber. It will give you more stopping power. Indeed it will give you plenty of stopping power and that's what you'd be looking for....

 

[scrat]

i have two of them. they work fine. just cant max load them. As its the overall life of the gun that will be effected. However brass or steel they both still shoot. they both still put holes through paper. i was shooting my 1860 last time using a sandbag. But shooting 20 grains of black powder. Hitting steel at 100 yrds. So brass is ok. i will not shoot loads over 20 grains though. On paper i stick to around 16 grains. 20 grains if i want to shoot steel at 100.