I never see full length AR-15s

[ugaarguy]

I fully understand your lamentation. I've been wanting to get a plain jane A2 style rifle and I haven't really seen any around here except for an expensive post ban Colt that's been sitting in a local gun shop forever.

Is the easier to find A4 style with the detachable carry handle left on that objectionable?

I think that the tacticool M4gery craze is something of a fad that has overtaken the AR-15 market and pushed everything else aside.

I guess it's overtaken the US Army as well. They switched to the M4 as standard issue a few years ago. The USMC decided to keep 20" bbls, but they went to the A4 for versatility. What you call a fad is what I call evolution. Climb in & out of 5 ton trucks, Humvees, and Modular Control Equipment shelters with an M-16A2, and you might wish for an M4 (or even a civvy 16" bbl semi-auto M4gery) yourself.

 

[HDCamel]

It's not a question of combat effectiveness. The gun I want if the TSHTF is NOT going to be an AR-15 (in ANY configuration). I just want a nice, dedicated range gun that will also look good on my wall. Flat-top receivers disrupt the lines of the gun. I don't like that.

 

[ugaarguy]

I just want a nice, dedicated range gun that will also look good on my wall. Flat-top receivers disrupt the lines of the gun. I don't like that.

I can understand pure aesthetics. The tools & components are out there, and AR-15s are easy to put to together. Why not just build the one you want?

 

[HDCamel]

I can understand pure aesthetics. The tools & components are out there, and AR-15s are easy to put to together. Why not just build the one you want?

It's certainly on interim my to-do list, but I'd like to exhaust my local options before I start a project like that.

 

[ugaarguy]

Well, I hope you find what you're looking for. Keep us updated.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

I kinda want to make a Midlength AR with Tapered round handguards with an A1 Stock and a detachable carry handle.

Does that sound like a good idea?

 

[Sam Cade]

Does that sound like a good idea?

Only if you build it with a featherweight (not lightweight) barrel and send it to me.

 

[ugaarguy]

I kinda want to make a Midlength AR with Tapered round handguards with an A1 Stock and a detachable carry handle.

Does that sound like a good idea?

Sounds like it would balance well. If you want it, why not build it?

 

[Zach S]

Question to those with the A1 variations.

Ever shoot it from your left shoulder, if so, did you get brass problems without the deflector?

Yes. I don't own one, but have fired a few.

I like the simplicity of the A1 rear sight, but most "A1" uppers currently in production have both the FA and brass deflector.

 

[MCMXIautomatic]

Is the easier to find A4 style with the detachable carry handle left on that objectionable?

No, I have nothing against it, I just like the nostalgia of fixed carry handles and other "retro" features. Just my personal preference.

I guess it's overtaken the US Army as well. They switched to the M4 as standard issue a few years ago. The USMC decided to keep 20" bbls, but they went to the A4 for versatility. What you call a fad is what I call evolution. Climb in & out of 5 ton trucks, Humvees, and Modular Control Equipment shelters with an M-16A2, and you might wish for an M4 (or even a civvy 16" bbl semi-auto M4gery) yourself.

Let me explain my viewpoint. I call tacticool ARs a fad because I know that there are a lot of people who are just obsessed with the idea of attaching all kinds of cool stocks and accessories to their rifles to personalize them, make them look more high-speed, etc, regardless of practical need. In a few years, we'll see some hot new thing that every range commando will just have to have, and it will be all the rage and possibly force the current stuff into obscurity. Not everybody buys weapon accessories based on need.

Also, I never mentioned anything about the military, and the military's needs are different from mine. I don't spend all day hopping in and out of humvees, kicking in doors, and worrying about snipers/IEDs. You don't see soldiers slapping all kinds of accessories on their weapons just for the fun of it. They carry carbines with rails, lights, and Eotechs attached based on the nature of the combat they're facing and because it increases their effectiveness. They don't overdo it, they just use what they need.

What I would like to see, like the OP apparently would as well, is a balance between the new and the old. I have nothing against evolutions in weapons technology, but I would like to have an A2 style rifle for the same reasons a lot of us like to hunt with a .30-30 lever action with a walnut stock instead of a black rifle. I'd like to have one for the same reasons that a lot of us prefer 1911s and revolvers to the newer, polymer framed autoloaders, or for the same reasons that some of us like original configuration SKSs and would never dare to bastardize them with aftermarket stocks and accessories. I hope you now understand where I'm coming from.

I don't have to have a frilly M4gery adorned with rails and accessories to satisfy my particular wants and needs.

 

[ugaarguy]

I just like the nostalgia of fixed carry handles and other "retro" features. Just my personal preference.

That's all I was asking. Although I never thought it would be this soon that an M16A2 style AR-15 would be falling into the retro category. Like I said in post 78, I have no problem with desiring aesthetics over a less attractive but functionally identical counterpart.

I hope you now understand where I'm coming from.

If you'd just come out from the beginning and stated it was for nostalgia, retro looks, aesthetics, etc. I wouldn't have kept asking. I'm totally cool with retro.

Not everybody buys weapon accessories based on need.

That's true. But generalizing those who do & don't buy accessories based on experience into one group of "range commandos" with fad "tacticool ARs" doesn't create sympathy for your view point either.

I never kicked in doors for a living. I was a REMF. I was doing pretty important comm-electronics maintenance, but I was a REMF none the less. Most of the time I'd have been better served with a sidearm than even an M4, but the squadron had M16A2s, so that's what I was issued. The counter to that is that my unit was rapidly field deployable, so we actually were trained to set up our equipment in hostile conditions, fight, and defend our position.

That experience is why my ARs are M4 type. One came with a MagPul MOE stock. I liked it, it was comfortable, and it locked up tighter than the M4 stock on the other rifle. So the other rifle got a an MOE stock in tan (or flat dark earth, or coyote brown if you like tactical color names). I also added tan rail covers, and a tan ergo grip for increased comfort. I went with a tan Surefire in a tan VTAC mount so my target ID light would match the rest of the rifle. Yes, the tan looks cool, but it also keeps the gripping surfaces cooler in the heat & sun of GA summers; so the color also serves a practical purpose. I run Falcon Ergo grips on all my ARs for comfort & consistent grip.

Now that we see each others' view points I'll quit talking about modern ARs in this retro A2 thread. If I find an A2 anywhere I'll let y'all know though.

 

[HDCamel]

On a related note:

How much do straight, GI style 20 round mags usually run for?

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

Sounds like it would balance well. If you want it, why not build it?

Cause I'm a poor college student.


Next rifle I get will probably be one though.

I forgot to mention, lightweight profile barrel.

 

[benEzra]

How much do straight, GI style 20 round mags usually run for?

Brownell's has them for about $10 each, IIRC with better springs and followers than USGI.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21225/Product/AR-15-M16-20-30-ROUND-MAGAZINES

The 20's are a little way down the page.

 

[CZguy]

I've always wanted a retro AR 15 A1.

Are there any one or two stop sources for a build?

 

[ugaarguy]

Are there any one or two stop sources for a build?

Search M16A1 parts kit on Google. What A Country is the only place I found that currently has them in stock - http://whatacountry.com/m16a1-parts-kit.aspx . Add a Nodak Spud NDS-16A1 Retro lower - http://www.nodakspud.com/AR Lowers.htm . Most of the M16A1 parts kits are reimports, so they have new bbls. in the white, rather than the original Colt bbls. The first finished 20" LW bbl I could find off hand was this Del Ton - http://www.del-ton.com/Del_Ton_Inc_Barrels_p/bl1028.htm . And here's one from DPMS - http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5601&cat=1919 .

 

[Pete D.]

a plain jane A2 style rifle and I haven't really seen any around here except for an expensive post ban Colt that's been sitting in a local gun shop forever.

Nice gun. Great shooter.
Pete

 

[MtnCreek]

There was a beautiful Colt SP1 on the ‘sale’ board the other day. Seller pulled it pretty quick; I bet he had a change of heart.

 

[HDCamel]

How good are Del-Ton kits? I poked around the site and $595 + ship and transfer for a 20" A2 kit and a stripped lower is a VERY tempting price.

 

[ugaarguy]

How good are Del-Ton kits?

They were always decent lower to low-mid tier parts. If they're building to the specs they now quote on paper they're solidly upper-mid tier, and a good buy for the price. If you're okay with an unlined light weight bbl, or paying and extra $45 to get chrome lining on a heavy bbl; along with 1:9 twist only, then go for it. It may not be ideal, but it's probably the easiest way to get what you want at a reasonable price.

ETA: Here's a link to a great lower on the cheap - http://www.karrisguns.com/new-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver - I've used a few of them myself.

 

[HDCamel]

I'd really only need a chrome lined barrel if I was going to use the gun for competition (i.e. if I were going to pour thousands and thousands of rounds through it in relatively short time).

Thanks for the info on that lower. $60 savings is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Hey I have a question for everyone here. I am in the process of building a 20" A2 model, and was wondering how good the sights are. I got the fixed carry handle (I really dislike electronics. Irony, I know) and was just wondering what kind of accuracy you guys get with no scopes/red dot sights. Thanks!

 

[henschman]

Well the guys who shoot NRA high power shoot 1 MOA and under with those sights. They usually have the National Match hooded rear aperture and a narrower front post, but you can do just fine with the regular GI sights too. I have no problem hitting man-sized targets out to 500 yards with them with surplus ammo. They are some of the better iron sights out there... the only ones that are any better are the M1 and M14 sights.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Well the guys who shoot NRA high power shoot 1 MOA and under with those sights. They usually have the National Match hooded rear aperture and a narrower front post, but you can do just fine with the regular GI sights too. I have no problem hitting man-sized targets out to 500 yards with them with surplus ammo. They are some of the better iron sights out there... the only ones that are any better are the M1 and M14 sights.

Anything beats AK sights But thanks that makes me feel a lot better!

 

[sarduy]

The M4gery is the past decade's fad. Nowadays everyone wants a lightweight barrel profile, 14.5" + a pinned muzzle device, midlength gas system, 60" of free float rails, flip-up sights and the most futuristic looking & expensive stock that can hold a fruit roll-up and a spare battery or two. Seriously.

Now, that said, there's a small congregation of people coming to realize that carbine length gas is actually THE tried and true system and the alleged differences in recoil impulse aren't all that noticeable. Hatewrs will always hate...

I have rifles in both styles, but to be honest the M4 is the one I'm most comfortable with from all the years of using it. I have no need for a 20" 5.56mm rifle, but I won't begrudge anyone their choices. I just always figured if I needed more gun than a 5.56mm carbine then a battle rifle was the best path to take.

+1