I never see full length AR-15s

[Strykervet]

I've always wanted a retro AR 15 A1.

Are there any one or two stop sources for a build?

Not sure about one or two stops.

I saw an ad in Shotgun News a while back that was selling a few different styles of uppers and lowers in the original early 60's configuration. No mag release gates, squared gates, etc. No foward assist, A1's with foward assist, etc. All were in the correct colors too (if I reall, the colors on the uppers and lowers didn't match on originals). If you really want a repop of an original early M16, these guys are the way to go. Sorry, I can't recall the name.

You can find the A1 buttstock and triangular handguards from several sources, same with the 3 prong flash hider, old sling, waffle mags, etc. Call the big surplus places, look in Shotgun News for them. Big Sky Surplus has some A1 stocks and triangle handguards, but I can't tell you the condition. They will haggle prices and may have what you are looking for.

For the barrel, I'd definitely get a more modern barrel but in the proper profile. No need for a 1/12 twist or whatever, why not get a 1/7? Especially if you plan on shooting it. The foward assist is advisable too.

This is an easy enough build, I could get all the parts and build one in a few hours and it would look identical to the originals.

 

[Strykervet]

Hey I have a question for everyone here. I am in the process of building a 20" A2 model, and was wondering how good the sights are. I got the fixed carry handle (I really dislike electronics. Irony, I know) and was just wondering what kind of accuracy you guys get with no scopes/red dot sights. Thanks!

I was an SDM instructor in the army, taught squad designated marksmen. One of the things they had to do first before mounting the ACOG was to become proficient at the NM course out to 600m using iron sights on an issue M4 with heavy burst trigger and KAC rails system and bipod. We used A1 or A2 stocks when available, but always used the 14.5 SOPMOD barrels or standard 14.5" Colt barrels.

They did pretty good. Some were better using those irons than they were the scope. Those are good irons, but you have to learn to use them. Takes time at the range and recording the range conditions and sight changes used (hard to explain here, but I'm sure there is a good book out there on proper use of AR sights --they do more than the average person thinks).

The carry handle with rear sights is always better than those flip sights too. A lot of guys didn't use their issue flip sights, and we had the nice 600m KAC ones. They tied off their carry handle to their gear instead and used that along with their collected data to make shots.

Lots of guys also put their important sight data on a waterproof card, then laminated that to their buttstocks, carry handle, or scope if it was scope data.

 

[Ranger30-06]

That's encouraging. I have always been a fan of using irons, but never used AR15/M4/M16 sights so I wasn't sure what to expect. Thanks

 

[Strykervet]

As for myself, I like the M4 rifle, but I like the AR platform in general. The accuracy for a light and fast semi auto is amazing. Owning several, having owned one before the army, and having been issued a few variants in the army, I can say the M4 is my favorite by far. But for long range shooting, for SDM work, I prefer a longer rifle with a fixed stock.

Used to be the M4 was the specialty rifle and the M16 the standard. Not so anymore, the reverse is true.

See, they issued the M68, the Aimpoint, to improve hits. The Army doesn't teach soldiers to shoot, they teach them how to service, maintain, and "use" their rifles. This even applies, sadly, to infantrymen. Since Army rifle qualification ranges are 300m "popup" ranges where targets popup "randomly" between 25 and 300m, and since most engagements happen within 300m, this just made sense to them. Also, the rifles have been and are zeroed at 25m since the bullet will be at the same elevation at 25m as it will be at 300m, and they are taught to aim low at targets at 225m (the max ord. of the round from a 14.5"bbl).

Taking this into consideration, plus the handiness of the smaller M4 (and it is WAY small compared to a 20", I have both and was thinking about it just yesterday) and the fact many soldiers have to enter and exit vehicles and tight quarters, and the M4 is the just the way to go. I've cleared rooms using both, I've also used a SAW, M203, and some other gear, and I can say the M4 wins hands down. And when equipped with a 14.5" 1/7 SOPMOD kit, ACOG scope, KAC FF rail system, bipod and other gear, and in the hands of a trained SDM firing the MK262, you have a weapon capable of accurate 600m hits AND good for regular infantry work. In this case, it is a Jack of All Trades, AND Master of Many!

But as much as I like my M4, my favorite AR, shoot, my favorite rifle period, is my newly built 20" Satern barreled Grendel. That thing is AWESOME. I used a reglar A2 mil spec stock, I matched the Aero Precision receivers, used a JP Ent. carrier, KAC FF rail, 7.62 ACOG, and tuned RRA 2 stage (which may get swapped out for a Geissel high speed, it could benefit from it I believe). I can put ten rounds in a bottle cap at 100m, and I just hit 100 rounds with it last night, still using new brass and still working up loads, it hasn't reached full potential yet! Definitely a sub-MOA rifle. Not bad for a "parts gun" as they're called. I built this rifle to be the SDM rifle I always dreamed of and I was not let down by reality, not one bit.

The 20" isn't dead, it just swapped places with the M4 as the specialty rifle and the M4 became the "regular" rifle. Also, the 20" is very common in competitions.