palmettopatriot
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2009
- Messages
- 26
In July 2010, I went to a gun show looking for a sub-compact .380ACP pistol. Everyone was sold out of the Keltec 3-AT and I didn’t even consider the Ruger LCP because I loathe Bill Ruger’s back stabbing anti-gun politics, but those were most likely sold out as well. {EDIT: YES, I KNOW RUGER IS DEAD, AND I DON'T CARE. HE NEVER GOT A DIME FROM ME AND NEITHER WILL HIS FAMILY} I came across a brand that was familiar to me because I knew they built AK variant rifles. This company was Inter Ordinance, Inc. and they were calling their .380 the “Hellcat”. Looking at it, it was obvious that they knocked off the Keltec just like everyone else, including Ruger, was doing. So I got online on my phone and was unable to find any bad reviews. I took the leap and bought a blued pistol, and man, do I now wish my feet had stayed on the ground.
I immediately took the weapon to the gun range and my woes began right off of the bat. Of course you cannot disassemble a gun before you buy it. So before I shot it, as everyone should ALWAYS do with a brand new gun, I cleaned it. I was immediately dismayed because the takedown pin was so easy to remove. This holds the gun together and if I could remove it easily, it could come loose on you when firing. I was also disappointed by the internals being so rough that they looked like they were carved out of wood with a pen knife – by a baboon high on a crack and methamphetamine cocktail. Sometimes this is done on purpose as rough surfaces inside the action help the weapon retain lubrication, but these rough cuts were also along the slide rails and other parts where friction occurs where the surface should ideally be polished as smooth as glass for maximum reliability in function. The feed ramp was horribly shaped, rough, and poorly polished. Basically, I knew it would have trouble feeding before I took the first shot.
So basically, I figured that perhaps the tolerances were loose enough for this all to function regardless of the shortcomings in workmanship. This has been the case of many firearms throughout history. So I bought 50 rounds of brand new Winchester white box 95gr .380ACP (newly manufactured to SAAMI standards) and fired away. What happened is just what I thought. It kept submarine jamming on the feed ramp – every round. After 2 boxes of ammo the third box would feed about every other round, but would still fail to feed on the last three rounds out of a six round magazine. At this point, I admitted defeat and decided that my pistol needed work. They informed me that I needed my original receipt in the package, not a copy. This point will be important later.
I contacted Inter Ordinance, Inc. and got an email back from David Moses, who told me to send the gun in for repair or replacement and gave me an address. I called I.O., Inc at 866-882-1479 and asked them about shipping charges. They were adamant about me covering them. I was told that it is the industry standard that in order to protect gun companies from frivolous claims that the customer pay for shipping. I informed the lady on the phone that it is also an industry standard, in any industry and not just the firearms industry, that when you buy something for it to work. I also stated that it was not like I was coming back to them 3 years or even three weeks after the purchase. I further revealed that I was unaware of such a standard because with all of the many guns I have ever owned, they all did what they were supposed to do - what an absurd expectation! At this point we compromised and agreed that I would pay for shipping there and that they would cover it back.
But wait, there’s more! The new pistol arrived and I field stripped and cleaned it. This time, the internals were in much better shape, but my rag pulled up a few metal shavings. I guess they don’t even give their parts a Varsol bath before assembling them. I at least noticed that the takedown pin was snug this time. But that would not matter, as you will read later. At any rate, I could not fire the pistol for a few months due to a busy school and work schedule. When I got around to it, I discovered that indeed my new pistol shot better. Instead of jamming every other round and consistently on the last three like that last one, the new one now just jammed every other round.
Then, before I even finished a 50 round box, something nasty and incredibly potentially dangerous happened. My brother fired those last shots and he had what is known in gun terminology as a “Kaboom”. The recoil of that last shot, he said, felt very strange. We looked sideways at the pistol and noticed the takedown pin managed to scoot out about 1/8 of an inch. I also realized that the guide rod and recoil spring were protruding out of the front of the pistol and that the guide rod was slightly bent. If the retaining pin had come out just a little more than it did, the coroner would have had to surgically remove the slide from his face before my family could bury him – or least he would have broken every bone in his face.
I promptly emailed I.O. Inc. and informed them that I did not appreciate them sending me a dangerous pistol that could have killed someone. Uli Wiegand, the president of I.O., sent me an email back ranting about how he is sick of dealing with me, and that nothing was wrong with the “nickel pistol” that they sent “me”. He said that he tested it myself and also suggested that I just send it back for a refund so that he could be done with me. I emailed him back and asked him what in the hell he was talking about, that I had a blued pistol, not a nickel one. I also thanked him for confusing me with someone else because he just let me know that other people thought his pistols were worthless too. I told him that regardless of if the email was meant for me, his instructions were good enough, and I sent the gun in, at my cost of course. I mailed it in early November 2010. On 09 December 2010 I emailed Weigand again and asked him what the sitrep was on the refund. He told me that he has forwarded my case to his accounting department and that they will need my original receipt. I emailed them back to let them know that they had the original receipt already, and that they never sent it back to me. I never got a response.
Today, 01 February 2011, I sent Wiegand another email:
Uli,
The last thing I heard anything from you was over a month and a half ago. At this point, I feel that I must file a Consumer Affairs fraud report with Georgia for receiving a junk firearms and I am filing one with North Carolina because you have my gun and I have no money back. I spent over $300 and I don't even have the broke item to show for it. I will also be posting a thread on the 8 most popular gun related forums about this issue as well as making a YouTube video and Facebook page. I will also be authoring a web page that I will register with Google so that it will turn up in search results. Those who screw me get screwed back...harder.
I immediately took the weapon to the gun range and my woes began right off of the bat. Of course you cannot disassemble a gun before you buy it. So before I shot it, as everyone should ALWAYS do with a brand new gun, I cleaned it. I was immediately dismayed because the takedown pin was so easy to remove. This holds the gun together and if I could remove it easily, it could come loose on you when firing. I was also disappointed by the internals being so rough that they looked like they were carved out of wood with a pen knife – by a baboon high on a crack and methamphetamine cocktail. Sometimes this is done on purpose as rough surfaces inside the action help the weapon retain lubrication, but these rough cuts were also along the slide rails and other parts where friction occurs where the surface should ideally be polished as smooth as glass for maximum reliability in function. The feed ramp was horribly shaped, rough, and poorly polished. Basically, I knew it would have trouble feeding before I took the first shot.
So basically, I figured that perhaps the tolerances were loose enough for this all to function regardless of the shortcomings in workmanship. This has been the case of many firearms throughout history. So I bought 50 rounds of brand new Winchester white box 95gr .380ACP (newly manufactured to SAAMI standards) and fired away. What happened is just what I thought. It kept submarine jamming on the feed ramp – every round. After 2 boxes of ammo the third box would feed about every other round, but would still fail to feed on the last three rounds out of a six round magazine. At this point, I admitted defeat and decided that my pistol needed work. They informed me that I needed my original receipt in the package, not a copy. This point will be important later.
I contacted Inter Ordinance, Inc. and got an email back from David Moses, who told me to send the gun in for repair or replacement and gave me an address. I called I.O., Inc at 866-882-1479 and asked them about shipping charges. They were adamant about me covering them. I was told that it is the industry standard that in order to protect gun companies from frivolous claims that the customer pay for shipping. I informed the lady on the phone that it is also an industry standard, in any industry and not just the firearms industry, that when you buy something for it to work. I also stated that it was not like I was coming back to them 3 years or even three weeks after the purchase. I further revealed that I was unaware of such a standard because with all of the many guns I have ever owned, they all did what they were supposed to do - what an absurd expectation! At this point we compromised and agreed that I would pay for shipping there and that they would cover it back.
But wait, there’s more! The new pistol arrived and I field stripped and cleaned it. This time, the internals were in much better shape, but my rag pulled up a few metal shavings. I guess they don’t even give their parts a Varsol bath before assembling them. I at least noticed that the takedown pin was snug this time. But that would not matter, as you will read later. At any rate, I could not fire the pistol for a few months due to a busy school and work schedule. When I got around to it, I discovered that indeed my new pistol shot better. Instead of jamming every other round and consistently on the last three like that last one, the new one now just jammed every other round.
Then, before I even finished a 50 round box, something nasty and incredibly potentially dangerous happened. My brother fired those last shots and he had what is known in gun terminology as a “Kaboom”. The recoil of that last shot, he said, felt very strange. We looked sideways at the pistol and noticed the takedown pin managed to scoot out about 1/8 of an inch. I also realized that the guide rod and recoil spring were protruding out of the front of the pistol and that the guide rod was slightly bent. If the retaining pin had come out just a little more than it did, the coroner would have had to surgically remove the slide from his face before my family could bury him – or least he would have broken every bone in his face.
I promptly emailed I.O. Inc. and informed them that I did not appreciate them sending me a dangerous pistol that could have killed someone. Uli Wiegand, the president of I.O., sent me an email back ranting about how he is sick of dealing with me, and that nothing was wrong with the “nickel pistol” that they sent “me”. He said that he tested it myself and also suggested that I just send it back for a refund so that he could be done with me. I emailed him back and asked him what in the hell he was talking about, that I had a blued pistol, not a nickel one. I also thanked him for confusing me with someone else because he just let me know that other people thought his pistols were worthless too. I told him that regardless of if the email was meant for me, his instructions were good enough, and I sent the gun in, at my cost of course. I mailed it in early November 2010. On 09 December 2010 I emailed Weigand again and asked him what the sitrep was on the refund. He told me that he has forwarded my case to his accounting department and that they will need my original receipt. I emailed them back to let them know that they had the original receipt already, and that they never sent it back to me. I never got a response.
Today, 01 February 2011, I sent Wiegand another email:
Uli,
The last thing I heard anything from you was over a month and a half ago. At this point, I feel that I must file a Consumer Affairs fraud report with Georgia for receiving a junk firearms and I am filing one with North Carolina because you have my gun and I have no money back. I spent over $300 and I don't even have the broke item to show for it. I will also be posting a thread on the 8 most popular gun related forums about this issue as well as making a YouTube video and Facebook page. I will also be authoring a web page that I will register with Google so that it will turn up in search results. Those who screw me get screwed back...harder.
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