I really want to carry revolver but.....

[el Godfather]

Dear THR:
When I first started to collect and shoot guns it started with revolvers. The first handgun I shot was a Webly & Scott. I dont know what happened to it. I think it just got lost or given away as it was in the family not entirely owned buy one person. I think it was a .32, but cannot say that with certainty - it could have been a .38. Then I also had .455 for a while before giving it to a friend. Since those times I have had many, but some where along the time my semi autos started to out number revolvers, but to date I am still drawn more to revolvers.

For example a few days back I was contemplating a Wilson Combat Protector and Nighthawk HLS both in 10mm, until I started a thread requesting information on .454 Casull. Needless to say, I have asked my importer to place them 1911s order on hold (in fact I was quite put off due to wait on them anyway), and start paperwork for SW .460 5" and Ruger Alaskan .454 Casull 2.5" instead. Another reason to put 1911s on the back burner was that I had placed DW Titan order a while back which got delayed due to the fire at DW facility, however, a day before yesterday I heard from my agent that I might be able to get it after all. So he got a green signal from me on Titan. Hopefully end this I will be enjoying shooting it.

With all this side note information, what I really wanted to discuss was the carrying of a revolver as EDC. Some how I am not getting used to it. Reasons are: capacity, uncomfortable carrying reloads, thickness, have not found the holster that I like, and safety issue!

I feel that if I carry a revolver, I need to empty it every time I take it off and then managing lose bullets seems like a hassle. Whereas with pistol, I take out the magazine and place it safely - since I am also concerned about my kids who are growing to an age where they are very inquisitive. I do give them small gun safety lessons even with their toy guns.

What are your suggestion or experiences? The holster system that I am most comfortable with is the shoulder rig. I most carry my gun like that and sometime in IWB holster. Extra bullets on the shoulder rig would be nice (since I dont like the reloads) but I haven't found one like that. Revolvers in consideration are Anaconda 6", KC 4", and also (and if all goes well) my 460 and .454 when they arrive.

When I travel I also have a second handgun in vehicle and when I am traveling to undesirable place, I keep Krink in vehicle as well. So capacity in only a concern when I leave the vehicle. May be if I carry two - one in each side of shoulder rig?

Thanks

 

[Hometeached1]

The best reload for a revolver is another! I carry one everyday, but as a BUG to a auto, (carry a speed strip as a reload for it).

 

[buck460XVR]

My carry guns are always loaded. Only time they are emptied is when I shoot them at the range and then they are reloaded before I leave. I may unload them to clean them, but then again, as soon as I am done, they are unloaded. If I have concerns about the loaded guns and kids in the house, the loaded guns go in the safe. Either the big one in the back room or the little one on the bedside table. As for loose rounds.....they are all over the place at my house. Just got yelled at yesterday by the wife cause the pheasant loads from last weekend's hunt were still on the desk.

 

[Inebriated]

Any particular reason you're going to be carrying bear guns?

Get a 625 or a 610 and some moon clips, problems solved.

 

[oneounceload]

I have two main carry guns - one a snub revolver, the other a small semi in 9mm - both are pocket carried in a pocket holster. If on is out, the other is in the safe - the only time either gets unloaded is when it is being fired for practice. No other guns in my home are kept loaded

As to capacity, there have been a bazillion studies about how many rounds are fired during an incident - and it isn't many; but a speed strip is a slim way to carry a reload if you feel the need.

What country are you in where you feel that extreme level of threat?

 

[Deaf Smith]

With all this side note information, what I really wanted to discuss was the carrying of a revolver as EDC. Some how I am not getting used to it. Reasons are: capacity, uncomfortable carrying reloads, thickness, have not found the holster that I like, and safety issue!

I feel that if I carry a revolver, I need to empty it every time I take it off and then managing lose bullets seems like a hassle. Whereas with pistol, I take out the magazine and place it safely - since I am also concerned about my kids who are growing to an age where they are very inquisitive. I do give them small gun safety lessons even with their toy guns.

What are your suggestion or experiences?

Thanks

Kemosabe why you want to empty the revolver every time you take it off?

Do you unload your semi-autos when you take them off each time? You do? What about the chamber.. do you keep a round in it or chamber empty?

Ok, if unloading a revolver keep a cup handy to let the bullets fall into it. Keep the cup near the gun.

Reloads... use Bianchi speed strips and an Uncle Mikes speed strip pouch.

A good belt slide holster will do for CCW.

Most important is PRACTICE. Lots of practice. Gun handling and marksmanship,

Deaf

 

[Old Fuff]

Before offering advice two questions need to be answered.

1. Where are you located?

2. How serious is the threat environment?

 

[el Godfather]

Threat level high due to political reasons.

Location overseas no one place- rather not disclose.

Carry bear guns because some idiot here I think are just like bear. Its joke I dont expect you to get it.

Semi auto is cleared when i take it off.

 

[tomrkba]

When I travel I also have a second handgun in vehicle and when I am traveling to undesirable place, I keep Krink in vehicle as well. So capacity in only a concern when I leave the vehicle. May be if I carry two - one in each side of shoulder rig?

I have the sense that you are not in the United States.

Semi auto is cleared when i take it off.

No, it is not. Dropping the magazine still leaves one round in the chamber. Do not carry your gun with an empty chamber. You may not have time to complete loading it before you need it.

It is not clear to me why you are carrying. Are you carrying for personal defense against criminals? Are you a police officer and get to choose your gun? Or are you carrying for defense against wild animals while in the wilderness?

UPDATE: this was answered in a recent post while I was writing.



Is concealment a primary concern? Larger guns can be difficult to hide and your wardrobe will be more restricted. I find that I need four sizes of gun to cover all situations: pocket, compact, midsize and full size. A compact sized gun covers 95% of all my carry needs.

The first rule is to have a gun. In many cases, all you need is the gun since you are likely not to have to fire it. However, if you do need to fire it, then the terminal ballistics of the cartridge are very important. There may be limitations on the ammunition legally available and those limits are not clear to me. If you are limited to non-expanding bullets, then larger diameter bullets are probably better--depending upon the target, of course. Therefore, review what ammunition is available to you and modify your choices.


Glock 21 pistols are very good and it holds 13+1 rounds of 45 ACP. 45 ACP FMJ is better than 9x19mm FMJ. But, the gun is large.

10mm: the stopping power over capacity debate ends here!

Got H&K?

Learn the basics: Glock 19!

This is your signature. Why is a Glock 19 not sufficient? You can carry it under a suit jacket or t-shirt. It is compact enough for concealment, but large enough that it is easier to shoot. If that is too large, then get a Glock 26, S&W M&P 9C, HK, or equivalent. You can use Glock 19 and 17 magazines in the Glock 26; look for other brands that accept longer magazines. This gives you the ability to use a short magazine to enhance concealability or a long magazine when your clothing will let you hide it.

Revolvers require a bit more training to operate than semi-autos. The basics are easier, but we're not talking about range work. There are many reasons why people have moved on to the semi-automatic pistol for gunfighting, but shooting and reloading them is generally more efficient. The revolver double action trigger takes quite a bit more effort to master due to the mechanics of the trigger and the full force recoil.

Finding good revolver instructors is difficult. The instructor should know revolvers very well because the skills involved are very different from semi-autos. You will not learn as much if you go to an instructor who knows only semi-autos. I experienced this with my first revolver course; I had a much better experience working with a dedicated revolver trainer.


S&W Model 24 with Meprolight night sights installed. The charge holes have been chamfered and the stocks are from Ahrends. I do not recommend Ahrends stocks because they chew up the hand when shooting.

Back to guns: don't obsess over optimizing your gun. Choose something reliable and accurate that meets your concealment needs. A Glock 19, 23 or 32 (or the equivalent from S&W, HK, etc) will meet almost any requirement you can imagine for standard self-defense situations. Make sure the gun won't make you bleed when you work with it. Add night sights and make sure it has a rail for a light. You should carry at least one spare magazine, though two is better. Caliber doesn't matter so much so long as you use 9x19mm or above and you're using quality hollow point ammo.

If you do choose a revolver, avoid the small J-Frames and LCR. They are more difficult to learn to shoot well. I recommend a gun with a four or five inch barrel. The four inch barrel is a bit easier to carry. I have carried the Ruger Alaskan in the appendix position and have a S&W Model 24 that I carry strong side. Both are large guns that require I dress around them. Even a Ruger GP100 or S&W 686 will require different clothing because of the long grip (even with a "boot" grip). Keep this in mind.

In all cases, use a gun belt! It will hold up the gun such that your back is spared the extra work. You will feel back pain over time if you do not. I like the Comp-Tac kydex reinforced belts.


Can't decide? Carry both! The Glock 26 goes in the appendix position and the S&W Model 24 is carried strongside. Yes, the revolver is the BUG.

UPDATE:

The more I think about your situation, the more I think a Glock 19 (or 23 or 32) and Glock 26 (or 27 or 33) (or S&W M&P full and compact size, or HK) combination is the way to go. Rather than unload the gun at night, keep it loaded. Place it in a locked container. Do not mess with it. Remember, bullets will set back into the case if you chamber them multiple times; I only chamber them twice before placing them into the "shoot" bin. You'll be cycling through ammo daily. If you must absolutely unload the gun every day, use revolvers or have lots of ammo available.

Another reason to go with Glock is because they are easy to work on. $100 in spare parts will keep a Glock running for years so long as the slide, frame or barrel are not damaged. You can do all the work yourself with a $25 manual. Other guns require more in-depth knowledge to work on. This may be an important consideration since you are outside the US and may not have easy access to a gunsmith.


Glock 26 with Glock 19 magazine and A&G Grip Adapter


Short summary:

1) Use a gun belt. Comp-Tac is very prompt, but I do not know about mailing packages overseas.
2) Buy good holsters. Get two IWB kydex holsters. Carry either appendix and strong side or one gun on each side. Forward cant helps reduce printing.
3) Carry at least one spare magazine that will fit in both guns. The magazine should be on your belt or in a magazine holder in your pocket. Do not carry it bare in the pocket because lint and cooties will get inside. If you carry a revolver, carry at least one speedloader (hint: use Safariland Comp I or II loaders and buy only guns that accept those loaders) and two speed strips.
4) Ammunition should be compatible between both guns.
5) Revolvers take longer to master. You need to learn rapid fire and reloading. It does take quite a bit of practice.
6) Attend a two to four day defensive handgun class as soon as possible! Borrow a gun if you have to; this should be your priority. If you cannot find an instructor who knows revolvers, then attend class with a semi-auto! Buy one and carry it. Forget the revolver because you won't have good skills with them.

 

[el Godfather]

^ yes for self defense and against criminals. Dangerous criminals.

I carry semi, but always wanted to carry revolver as I consider is more reliable. The signature line might change if I get the hang out it.

 

[Old Fuff]

Is the threat level high because you expect to be attacked by several individuals (more then 2 or 3)? or less then 3?

If the expectation is over 3 the large-cap pistol has obvious advantages, even if you carry more then one revolver.

Personally I prefer revolvers, but the local threat level and environment doesn't suggest that I will be jumped by a gang, unless I go to the wrong places at the wrong time.

 

[tomrkba]

I carry semi, but always wanted to carry revolver as I consider is more reliable.

This is why you should attend training as soon as possible. Clearing jams is part of the training. Odds are you will not have trouble with a quality gun from Glock, S&W, HK, Beretta, etc. And, if you carry a backup gun, just draw the back up and continue shooting. Jams are not something I spend any time thinking about anymore. Learn to clear them without thinking and stop worrying.

 

[el Godfather]

Old...
If I am hit, it would be a targeted hit by no more than three people. (PM sent)

Tom...
I am pretty proficient with guns but thank for the wonderful comment and advice. (PM sent)

I agree that higher capacity semis suit me well, but occasionally i like to keep revolver when within comfort zone.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

No problem. I use moonclips. These are de rigour in competition and I will be using them for concealed carry. All rounds bound together, go in and come out as a group. Just make sure you have a moonclip appropriate to the ammo manufacturer.

http://www.moonclips.com/

 

[Cocked & Locked]

A couple of these 627-PC .357 magnums would give you some firepower. Problems is they are thick, heavy, and bulky to carry.

Based on some things you have mentioned in your post I would go with a couple of 10mm Glocks.

speed loaders, speed strips, moon clips, or one cartridge at a time...easy to load.

 

[Jaymo]

Do the bad guys think you're a "polar" bear?

I have an idea of where you are, can't be sure.
Anyway, be safe. Be careful.

 

[el Godfather]

^ no it the way around. I think the bad guy are grizzlies.

 

[Inebriated]

You know your own local risks better than anyone, so ultimately, you're going to know what is best for you. You say that you're more comfortable with the function of the revolver, but the capacity of the autos. What's your training background like? Do you typically wear clothing to accommodate more than one firearm? I know you mentioned a shoulder holster, so if you're serious about that and could effectively conceal two revolvers, then go for it. 12 rounds isn't much to sneeze at, especially if it's .454 Casull.

However, revolvers fail, and when they do, they turn into bricks. Using a G20 with 16 rounds of 10mm just seems to make more sense to me (well, a G17 makes most sense to me, but you seem to be quite the 10mm fan, so we'll go with that). Carrying a G20 and a spare mag, or even a second G20 would be easier than carrying two .454's, weight and bulk wise. If you get some training under your belt with an auto (I'm not suggesting that you have none, only that it builds confidence in both yourself and your gear), I think you'll find that a good auto is just a more practical solution.

Now, if you want to carry the revolver for the cool factor, then go for it. We all carry guns that may not be the most practical, but just "do it" for us. If that's the case, then I stand by my 625 or 610 suggestion. Both use moon clips which would make unloading as well as reloading quite easy, as there are never any loose cartridges to be concerned with.

EDIT - If I missed your concerns altogether, bear with me, it's 2:30 am.

 

[drastic_quench]

Don't carry a 454 or 460 unless those three bad guys are going to come at you single file.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If things are really that bad where you are traveling you just might have to stick with a high capacity semi-auto and use a revolver as a BUG. If you're worried about the grizzly bad guys you can always buy a SIG P220 w/8+1 of .45 Auto or a light weight 1911.

Although, the above suggestion for a S&W M627 which also carries 8 rounds but in .357 Magnum would be a alternative too. In any case, with the little you told us already I think I would be carrying a minimum of 2 guns on my body and another along with a semi-auto rifle in the car. Keep your head down buddy...

 

[hartcreek]

Your problem with ill fitting holsters where you live. Here in the states we have enough makers that we can get something to fit most anything.

 

[tomrkba]

FYI: www.knifekits.com.

You can make a holster for any gun you have.

Pictoral Guide to Making a Kydex Holster

One additional step is to tape up the gun. This creates a slight space between the gun and kydex to reduce wear on the gun. The purpose of the 3/16" thick wood block is to create a space between the gun and the back of the screw that attaches the strap to the holster.

knifekits.com sells the tape.

 

[tomrkba]

Based upon the description of the problem given, I think the threat is twofold:

1) A quick snatch-n-grab
2) Standard criminal confrontation

I believe this changes the requirements for defensive tools and skills slightly. Ed Lovette described several kidnapping scenarios in his book The Snubby Revolver. This book is available in electronic format.

Carrying two large pistols works for about three days before it becomes very annoying. It is odd to the casual observer for a man to walk around with his hand in his coat. So, to address both situations:

1) Quick kidnapping

Carry a small pocket gun in a coat or pants pocket. Always use a pocket holster. You can put your hand on the gun when transitioning through a door or when the situation warrants it. You now have an instant response to an attack. The largest size gun I would go is a S&W J-Frame revolver in 38 Special (if you can get a 640-1 in 357 Magnum, do it). Take a serious look at the Ruger LCR since the trigger is an improvement over the S&W trigger. I would recommend a small semi-auto such as a Kahr PM9, Ruger LCP (with 380 Auto FMJ ammo, NOT JHP since JHP gives up penetration for expansion), Kahr 380, SIG P238 or P938 or similar. The small semi-auto also carries a few more rounds (the PM9 holds 6+1 or 7+1). I like the Kahr PM9 because it is chambered in 9x19mm. They're quite reliable, the sights are good and night sights are available. See mousegunaddict.blogspot.com for ballistic testing of ammunition from various small guns. The small revolver will be the most reliable pocket gun.

I'd put a spare magazine in a pocket mag holder in an opposite pocket if it's not too annoying. However, drawing the large gun is probably better than trying to reload the small one. If you choose a snubby revolver, carry a speed strip with five rounds. Make sure you can get good groups to seven yards with it.

Furthermore, I would carry a small fixed blade knife centerline in front under the shirt. A two to three inch blade is sufficient. Learn the basics of knife fighting if you do not know them already. I like the Kabar TDI and it is low priced.

Some pocket holsters (or build your own):

Remora Holsters: https://www.remoraholsterstore.com/
DeSantis: http://www.desantisholster.com/store/SEARCH-BY-HOLSTER-OR-ACCESSORY/POCKET-HOLSTERS
Mika's Pocket Holsters: http://www.frontiernet.net/~akim/


2) Standard criminal attack

This is for either gun. The Glock 20 should be carried strong side for a fast draw to either the retention position or half-hip for point shooting. The holster should have lots of forward cant. Balance the weight of the gun with two spare Glock 20 magazines with +2 adapters and Wolff magazine springs. This gives you 50 rounds total. Carry the pocket gun at the same time. Respond with either gun as appropriate based upon initiative.

Remember, truly determined foes are probably going to get you no matter what you do. Odds are very high that you will be shot if you are in a gun fight with three armed men. It is imperative that you move first and draw while moving toward cover.

 

[el Godfather]

Thank you sir for such a detailed and concerned post.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Unless you are actually around large ANIMALS that warrant a large hand cannon like a .454 Casull, it is a terrible idea to carry one for human protection.

You are limiting your ammo supply by doing so, over penetration is assured, and collateral damage is a very very real possibility, and you will blow your eardrums out with no hearing protection with the first or second shot.

If you are serious about carrying a revolver, stick with 38 special +p, 45 acp or colt, 44 special, or at the most, .357 magnum. Anything more powerful IMO should be reserved for a wilderness, unpopulated by humans type area.

If you really insist on a lot of gun, .41 magnum or a S&W 610 in 10mm could be good options too, but are probaply overkill for human threats.

I come back to my first suggestion. A S&W 686+. 7 rounds of .357 or .38 special in a L frame sized gun is a nice carry piece.

This is a 3" TALO version, with Nill grips added.