I shot my leg
- Thread starter Axel Larson
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
While a badly done trigger job can result in the hammer falling when the slide is released, it's rare for the gun to actually discharge unless the whole fire control group is screwed...usually the result of a tinkerer using drop-in this and that of varying, unknown quality. The half-cock notch keeps that from happening.
In 47 years of owning, shooting, and working on and with 1911 pistols, I've only seen it happen once. With the pistol static, in a holster, with the manual safety and grip safety engaged...not gonna happen.
If the manual safety has become disengaged while in the holster, and the man drawing the gun sticks his finger in the trigger guard as he withdraws it...and he also depresses the grip safety...and the gun snags on something as it moves up...bang. That's not the fault of the gun.
JRH6856
Member
Over the years, many gun's mechanics have been improved to make them safer from accidental discharge, but so far, no gun has been or can be mechanically made safe from negligent discharge. Except by making it completely non-functional.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
I just skimmed through here, and I didn't see it addressed:
What kind of holster were you using?
What kind of holster were you using?
This happened to me years ago.
Bought a ParaOrdinance, used, and kept it on me at a convenience store I was part owner of. Being the poor sod I was, I kept it in my pocket being that it was small enough to fit without showing. Always kept a round in the chamber and hammer down.
But I was talking with a friend of mine one day, leaning against a wall while talking and BANG! Went straight down the side of my leg and only hit the floor. I was lucky not to have my knee hit. I know it was not fully cocked but later found that half cock safety didn't work. That is the best I can figure what happened to it, was in half cock and slipped off.
Still have the gun.
Bought a ParaOrdinance, used, and kept it on me at a convenience store I was part owner of. Being the poor sod I was, I kept it in my pocket being that it was small enough to fit without showing. Always kept a round in the chamber and hammer down.
But I was talking with a friend of mine one day, leaning against a wall while talking and BANG! Went straight down the side of my leg and only hit the floor. I was lucky not to have my knee hit. I know it was not fully cocked but later found that half cock safety didn't work. That is the best I can figure what happened to it, was in half cock and slipped off.
Still have the gun.
WinThePennant
Member
My point exactly. The 1911 fanboys never get it.
Averageman
Member
The 1911 is a ND waiting to happen. When the gun is being inserted or removed from the holster, it is the gun most likely to ND of all guns out there (IMHO) because of its very light SA pull. I know, I know. Everyone is going to shout (in unison), but "Not if you do [Fill In Blank]."
The gun is the tool, I am the weapon.
I do not blame my tools for the workmanship they produce, I work harder, train harder and study more; but I do not blame the tool.
The gun is the tool, I am the weapon.
I do not blame my tools for the workmanship they produce, I work harder, train harder and study more; but I do not blame the tool.
SabbathWolf
member
I would unload the gun, put it back in the holster in the same mode it was in when it fired.
Then see if you can reproduce the same thing again with the gun "unloaded."
If you can, that may tell you something.
I wouldn't sell it though.
In fact it would drive me personally half crazy not knowing how or why it happened. I'd probably never rest until I figured it out.
Glad you are OK.
Then see if you can reproduce the same thing again with the gun "unloaded."
If you can, that may tell you something.
I wouldn't sell it though.
In fact it would drive me personally half crazy not knowing how or why it happened. I'd probably never rest until I figured it out.
Glad you are OK.
WinThePennant
Member
What's funny is that in ALL my years of shooting and reading/writing on gun message boards, I don't think I've EVER read or heard of a single instance of a Sig DA/SA ND.
Not that they haven't happened. I am sure they do. But, it's a very rare event.
Likewise, I've never heard of a ND from a Sig P250.
45_auto
Member
Only ND I've ever seen during a Gunsite class was a Sig. We had just finished a night shoot, guy obviously thought he had cleared it. We were under a shooting shed, he went to put it in his shooting bag. Pointed it at the concrete floor and pulled the trigger. Got everyone's attention and got him sent home ....
But you missed my point. I wasn't agreeing with you.
After following this thread for a couple of days, I think I have the answer to the locked topic, "Which handgun is most prone to Accidental/Negligent discharge?"
The one purchased because the buyer thinks it will help him prevent a negligent discharge.
Averageman
Member
I think we are getting Accidental and Negligent mixed up here.
Any pistol, Sig or not can be used to produce a Neglignet discharge, ND's are totally software driven.
Accidental Discharges can sometimes (rarely) be caused by a weapon failure. If you own an inoperative weapon and know it all AD's become ND's. You knew it was defective and used it anyway.
The point I was trying to make is that you control the weapon, you hold all responcability for what happens with that weapon. Really there are very, very few exceptions to that rule.
If you aren't willing to accept that rule, well; thats why they made Golf.
Any pistol, Sig or not can be used to produce a Neglignet discharge, ND's are totally software driven.
Accidental Discharges can sometimes (rarely) be caused by a weapon failure. If you own an inoperative weapon and know it all AD's become ND's. You knew it was defective and used it anyway.
The point I was trying to make is that you control the weapon, you hold all responcability for what happens with that weapon. Really there are very, very few exceptions to that rule.
If you aren't willing to accept that rule, well; thats why they made Golf.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
A Para Ordnance.
With a passive firing pin safety that doesn't allow the firing pin to reach the primer unless the trigger is pulled and held to the rear.
A Para Ordnance...with a quarter-cock shelf that positions the hammer too close to the slide to light a primer even if the firing pin could get past the passive block.
Uh huh.
Not a fanboy at all. I'm actually rather fond of revolvers. I just have a lot of experience with the 1911 pistol and I understand exactly how it functions.
I also understand that whenever I hear those words:
"I don't understand it. The thing just went off!"
I know that I'm hearing sheep dip.
This, whether it's a 1911 or a Glock or a double-action revolver.
Pulling the trigger is what makes the gun fire. If you shoot yourself in the foot while drawing your gun, you pulled the trigger. If you shoot your dog...you pulled the trigger. If you put one through your wife's SUV...you pulled the trigger. You may not have meant to pull it. You may not have been aware that you were, in fact, pulling it...but you did. It's just that simple.
Today is Sunday. There were countless thousands of action matches shot in various insundry places all over the country yesterday and today. About 10 million 1911s and its variants were drawn, fired, reholstered, and drawn again. If it were all that dangerous, the news channels could no wise report all the injuries and deaths.
But...do carry on.
Axel Larson
Member
The Holster was a triple k, I think a secret agent but I am not positive and can not move easily enough to go check.
I am curious about the wounds, Axel: did you have two distinct holes? Was this upper leg or lower leg, inner surface or outer?
Reason I ask is because in a sample of 150 gunshot patients I processed in SA, I found that 10 out of 150 had tangential wounds. They are not that rare, but a true tangential doesn't penetrate at all, it is a graze wound. If you have two distinct wounds, that's a perforating injury (fairly common, I found 64 out of 150 cases).
Reason I ask is because in a sample of 150 gunshot patients I processed in SA, I found that 10 out of 150 had tangential wounds. They are not that rare, but a true tangential doesn't penetrate at all, it is a graze wound. If you have two distinct wounds, that's a perforating injury (fairly common, I found 64 out of 150 cases).
Axel Larson
Member
it penetrated about maybe two inches of skin and came out. exit wound is not nice but the entry wound is already healing nicely.
You should be okay, just keep it clean and finish the whole course of anti-biotics (if they gave you pills). Usually they don't stitch the wounds, they just dress them and send you home.
Mr. Doughnut
Member
- Joined
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Axel,
What kind of bullet? (HP, FMJ, etc.)
Mr. D.
What kind of bullet? (HP, FMJ, etc.)
Mr. D.
NMGonzo
Member
I had a 1911 ND when I was 18.
I was lowering the hammer on a live round.
Went off, hit a bathroom tile, and after a few seconds I am looking for my own injury.
None was there.
I got more careful about being sleepy, sitting in the toilet, and lowering the hammer on a live round.
If I want a hammer down gun, I just grab one of the others.
I was lowering the hammer on a live round.
Went off, hit a bathroom tile, and after a few seconds I am looking for my own injury.
None was there.
I got more careful about being sleepy, sitting in the toilet, and lowering the hammer on a live round.
If I want a hammer down gun, I just grab one of the others.
loneviking
Member
When somebody racks the slide on a 1911 and the hammer follows the slide back down causing the gun to fire---who pulled the trigger?
When a 1911, Mod. 70 Colt carried hammer down on a round is banged against a wall and discharges---who pulled the trigger?
Whan a Kar is dropped and fires when it hits the ground-who pulled the trigger?
Triggers can go off by clothing caught in the trigger guard---no finger in sight. Triggers can go off by something inside a holster, such as has happened several times with the Blackhawk Serpa.
My AD happened without my finger being on the trigger. I had to learn that much of what I hear on many forums is complete nonsense.
And for the OP, get the gun checked and if the gun functions properly then try to figure out how this happened. Give yourself some time to mentally recover before heading to the range. I had an AD 4 years ago and I still carry everday. No, not that gun but I sold the gun because of ammo availability problems. I carry a DA/SA with a slide mounted decocker/safety or a DA revolver. That's my recommendation for most folks who CCW.
When a 1911, Mod. 70 Colt carried hammer down on a round is banged against a wall and discharges---who pulled the trigger?
Whan a Kar is dropped and fires when it hits the ground-who pulled the trigger?
Triggers can go off by clothing caught in the trigger guard---no finger in sight. Triggers can go off by something inside a holster, such as has happened several times with the Blackhawk Serpa.
My AD happened without my finger being on the trigger. I had to learn that much of what I hear on many forums is complete nonsense.
And for the OP, get the gun checked and if the gun functions properly then try to figure out how this happened. Give yourself some time to mentally recover before heading to the range. I had an AD 4 years ago and I still carry everday. No, not that gun but I sold the gun because of ammo availability problems. I carry a DA/SA with a slide mounted decocker/safety or a DA revolver. That's my recommendation for most folks who CCW.
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allaroundhunter
Member
First off: This is "The High Road", and there are ways to disagree without being an *** about it.
NDs with Serpas are not caused by the locking system inside of the holster. They come from the users not keeping their trigger finger indexed on the draw.
Yes, there are ADs caused by a malfunctioning gun, but 99.9999% of what people call an "accidental discharge" are actually negligent discharges; complete with the shooter's trigger finger being where it didn't belong. I have seen more "accidental" discharges than I can count, and only one of them was a true accident (slam-fire). The others were caused by the operator error.
NDs with Serpas are not caused by the locking system inside of the holster. They come from the users not keeping their trigger finger indexed on the draw.
Yes, there are ADs caused by a malfunctioning gun, but 99.9999% of what people call an "accidental discharge" are actually negligent discharges; complete with the shooter's trigger finger being where it didn't belong. I have seen more "accidental" discharges than I can count, and only one of them was a true accident (slam-fire). The others were caused by the operator error.
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paramedic70002
Member
And triggers have been activated by safety straps, waist drawstrings on coats, and I'm sure a lot of other things.
But the reason I came to post is the EMT. I've been doing EMS and transport for decades. She was running off at the mouth and probably had a personal issue with guns. Many EMS providers are gunnies. I would have swapped stories with you during the trip. What concerns me most is she felt the need to continue your gun therapy/recovery efforts with the staff at the receiving facility. She really does need her boss to tell her to STHU.
But the reason I came to post is the EMT. I've been doing EMS and transport for decades. She was running off at the mouth and probably had a personal issue with guns. Many EMS providers are gunnies. I would have swapped stories with you during the trip. What concerns me most is she felt the need to continue your gun therapy/recovery efforts with the staff at the receiving facility. She really does need her boss to tell her to STHU.
loneviking
Member
Allaroundhunter, your opinion about the Serpa is just that---an opinion. You might want to go over to the Warrior Talk forum and talk to some of the Suarez instructors that would disagree with you. After all, they were there and you weren't.
And the claim that 99.9999 occur because of a trigger on the finger is made up BS. Its an opinion, and I can show story after story to refute that opinion. The folks who are new to owning and carrying guns need to know that there are other ways a gun can go off. With that info they can then know to reguarly inspect the insides of their holster; check the holster to make sure the trigger can't be pressed from outside the holster; check that the trigger guard is covered; know not to wear jackets with drawstrings...etc.
Burying your head in the sand and repeating the mantra of 'omly with a finger on the trigger' doesn't help the new folks and ignores the facts.
And the claim that 99.9999 occur because of a trigger on the finger is made up BS. Its an opinion, and I can show story after story to refute that opinion. The folks who are new to owning and carrying guns need to know that there are other ways a gun can go off. With that info they can then know to reguarly inspect the insides of their holster; check the holster to make sure the trigger can't be pressed from outside the holster; check that the trigger guard is covered; know not to wear jackets with drawstrings...etc.
Burying your head in the sand and repeating the mantra of 'omly with a finger on the trigger' doesn't help the new folks and ignores the facts.
allaroundhunter
Member
Do you understand that there are also stories after stories of NDs being caused by a finger on the trigger? There are no definitive statistics, but I assure you, it is well into the high 90th percentile of NDs that are caused by a finger inadvertently pulling the trigger. If you want to try to refute that, go ahead, but then go and ask those instructors the same question...
You are right, the folks who are new to guns need to know this: If the trigger is pulled (by anything) it will discharge. But you also need to understand that what you are calling BS, is quite the opposite.
*what I fixed for you
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