I stuck a bullet in a .357mag rifle today

[R.W.Dale]

yes indeed I did, and get this I'm 100% positive the case had propellant as evidenced by the fact that the bullet made it a good 14 inches down a 22" tube and the obvious powder fouling that stopped where the bullet had lodged.

The 38special load in question was 4.4grs of WW231 under a 180grn hornady silhouette bullet. According to me source Metallic Cartridge Reloading this is supposedly a +P level load. The gun in question is a Uberti rolling block chambered for .357 magnum.

Luckily the bullet was able to be dislodged with a few good stabs with an aluminum cleaning rod although I did lose some hide on my middle finger to the hammer when the bullet finally cleared the bore. The plus side to this is I inadvertently and very accurately slugged my bore which provided the curious revelation that said rifle has a bore measurement of .355" like a 9mm would.

I'm sharing this as a cautionary tale to pay attention to the recoil and report. Also as a warning that just because a manual says something doesn't mean that it's 100% kosher. I even thought this load looked fishy when I pulled it from my manual but ignored my gut feeling since it was in the manual after all.

 

[joneb]

Have you tried a 180gr cast lead bullet sized at .357 ?
Perhaps a different powder is in order. Glad you noticed

 

[NCsmitty]

Maybe a combination of a tight bore and the long bearing surface of that slug was just too much for the pressure developed. Did you notice any unburned powder hanging around?
You're just gonna have to add another jigger of powder when you shoot that Uberti.



Ncsmitty

 

[GJgo]

I'd wager to guess that the powder is just too fast for that heavy a bullet & that long a barrel. Glad you were paying attention, though.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Maybe a combination of a tight bore and the long bearing surface of that slug was just too much for the pressure developed. Did you notice any unburned powder hanging around?

No unburnt granules or flakes were to be seen, but as mentioned there was obvious powder fouling present.

You're just gonna have to add another jigger of powder when you shoot that Uberti.

my other load used was up to 16.5grs of ww296 and 158 gr Montana Gold HP's.....needless to say they made it out of the barrel just fine topping out at 1820fps and making a beautiful 2" 100yd 5 shot group

I'd wager to guess that the powder is just too fast for that heavy a bullet & that long a barrel. Glad you were paying attention, though.

That's my assessment as well

 

[W.E.G.]

I'm having a real hard time believing 4.4 grains 231 won't push a 180 grain bullet out of a rifle barrel.


As for the "fouling present,"... clean your rifle and then fire primed case - no bullet or powder.

Inspect your barrel after firing just a primer, and tell us how much fouling you see.

 

[Steve C]

My guess is that the charge was not 4.4grs of 231 powder but something a lot less or possibly contaminated powder though you would see the unburned powder pour out the chamber. Likely a bad throw from the measure due to not completing the cycle or something blocking the powder that got into the meauser.

 

[joneb]

My guess is that the charge was not 4.4grs of 231 powder but something a lot less

I have always had consistent throws with W-231, never the less I always inspect every charged case with a flashlight prior to seating.

 

[Guy de Loimbard]

I will second that if your powder did not burn completely or at all, you will see some or many unburnt granules of powder. I find that when I shoot Varget in my .45-70 or light loads of Universal (in both .38 spec. and .45 Colt) I end up with a whole mess of powder on the bench.

One other note I will add is that while I have only 4 reloads on my most used .38 cases, none of them have soot all the way down the case like that; it is limited to the area 1/4" behind the case mouth on them. It looks like due to low pressure the cartridge did not seal properly, I would suspect no charge or a charge substantially lower than what you thought was in there.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I'm having a real hard time believing 4.4 grains 231 won't push a 180 grain bullet out of a rifle barrel.


As for the "fouling present,"... clean your rifle and then fire primed case - no bullet or powder.

Inspect your barrel after firing just a primer, and tell us how much fouling you see.

I have a harder time believing that just a Federal small pistol primer drove a 180grn .357" diameter bullet well over halfway down a .355" bore'd 22" rifle barrel

My guess is that the charge was not 4.4grs of 231 powder but something a lot less

It's possible heck anything is possible, but all cases were visually inspected after charging. Not that 3.0 grains would look much different than 4.4 sitting in the bottom of a .38 case

 

[joneb]

I have a harder time believing that just a Federal small pistol primer drove a 180grn .357" diameter bullet well over halfway down a .355" bore'd 22" rifle barrel

There is one way to find out

 

[Jesse Heywood]

One thing that I am leery of is when I can only find one source for a load. Your experience justifies my concern. At least your gun didn't go kaboom this time. A point for all to ponder.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I also have a hard time believing a 4.4gr charge of W231 couldn't push a 180gr bullet down a 20" barrel. I also suspect a lighter charge than what you think was there.

BTW, why are you using such a light .38 Special charge with a 180gr bullet for a Carbine?

 

[R.W.Dale]

I also have a hard time believing a 4.4gr charge of W231 couldn't push a 180gr bullet down a 20" barrel. I also suspect a lighter charge than what you think was there.

BTW, why are you using such a light .38 Special charge with a 180gr bullet for a Carbine?

I had an old box of bullets to burn up and 20 primed, prepped and ready to load 38 cases sitting on my reloading desk.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Well that's as good a reason as any. But, you could have used a slower powder like HS-6 to aid in getting that big hunk of bullet moving.. lol

 

[R.W.Dale]

Well that's as good a reason as any. But, you could have used a slower powder like HS-6 to aid in getting that big hunk of bullet moving.. lol

LOL but I had 231 my next slower propellant is ww296


In a few days I'll pick up a wooden dowel rod to rake to the range and I'll shoot & chronograph (if they leave the bbl) the remaining ammo I have of this load, then I'll report back here.

 

[Walkalong]

While it might be a +P load, or not, that bullet has a lot of bearing surface and a long way to go. 4.4 Grs of W-231 is not much and can give very different velocities with the powder forward in the case vs powder back in the case. Just test it for yourself. I test everything in cases with lots of extra room for the powder to move around both powder back and powder forward. Sometimes the results are eye opening. W-231 is better than some in where it is in the case, but still gives a good bit less velocity if it is against the bullet when fired in .357 cases.

Sunday. 65 Degrees

4.2 Grs W-231 & a Berrys 148 Gr HBWC @ 1.402 O.A.L. with a CCI 500 primer

PB = Avg 670 FPS

PF = Avg 580 FPS

Both light. Some powders give much worse PF numbers.

 

[Walkalong]

Have you tried a 180gr cast lead bullet sized at .357 ?

It would certainly be easier to get down the tube.

In a few days I'll pick up a wooden dowel rod to rake to the range and I'll shoot & chronograph (if they leave the bbl) the remaining ammo I have of this load, then I'll report back here.

Looking forward to further results.

 

[243winxb]

Pistol Data Shown. For Rifles, Look up 357mag Data @Hodgdons website

Jacketed bullets in a rifle must be kept above750 fps or the bullet may not clear the muzzle, so my old reloading manual said. Hodgdons lists a max of 4.1 gr w/170gr only goes 752fps std. 38 load. WW231 is not listed in there +P data.Pistol Data Edit There is no load data for a 180gr bullet in 38 special on Hodgdons site.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Just to dovetail with the above post the manual in question claimed only 800fps in an unspecified bbl length

 

[rcmodel]

I'd find a more suitable powder for those heavy jacketed bullets for carbine use.

Or use lead bullets which have much less bore friction then jacketed bullets.

You would be hard pressed to find any legitimate rifle loading data using WW231 & 180 grain jacketed bullets.

I'll pick up a wooden dowel rod

How about a brass rod instead?

You ain't lived till you have to remove a stuck bullet with a splintered wood dowel rod tip wedging it in.

rc

 

[R.W.Dale]

Update

I took the rolling block out again today and after completing my sight in with the new front sight I decided to try the remainder of my now infamous 4.4g 180grn .38 load again.

I squeezed the trigger and I was rewarded with that now familiar Pamf! same story as before the bullet lodged right at 14" from the breach block. The diffrence this time though is I only waited 10 seconds or so before clearing the chamber which apparently isn't enough time for all the pressure to bleed past the bullet and brass case. Apoun cocking the hammer the breach block and case pushed rearward as far as it could with the hammer only partially cocked allowing a not too small qty of pressurized gas to escape.

So another lesson learned ALWAYS wait a minute or two before opening that breach on a bullet that didn't clear!



I just got done (with much hammering) pulling down 3 rounds and according to my scales the charge is 4.4grs right on the dot. At this point I'm convinced that the problem is with the load and not the handloader

 

[Steve C]

Was the stuck bullet from the 1st round fired or after several rounds fired that worked?

If it was the first round that stuck the bullet I'd take your word for it that the charge was probably the correct 4.4grs but if it was one of several and the others fired fine, its more than likely you had an error in the load.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Was the stuck bullet from the 1st round fired or after several rounds fired that worked?

If it was the first round that stuck the bullet I'd take your word for it that the charge was probably the correct 4.4grs but if it was one of several and the others fired fine, its more than likely you had an error in the load.

of the ONLY two rounds of this load to be fired fired BOTH stuck appx 14" down the bbl

 

[Myke_Hart]

I don't know, You should shoot another one just to be sure!