I think I'm sold - what do you think of the RFB?

[.cheese.]

As of late, the AR vs AK debate has literally been eating at me.

I want to have some long-gun protection ready in a safe, and to get it ASAP in case there is legislation on its way that would make doing so more difficult later.

The problem that I've been having though is that I really wasn't happy with either the AR or the AK. In addition, I didn't like .223 or 7.62x39, because neither are really viable hunting rounds, and to maximize my purchasing power, I want to consolidate my calibers so I can buy in bulk and save (I've saved a ton in pistol ammo and consequently range-visits by making sure my pistols are all .40). Plus, for .22 caliber, I always have plenty of .22lr on hand. I also was worried about AR reliability and thought the Sig 556 would answer this with the piston, but I've been hearing bad things about it lately.

So the goal was, bigger than .223, but easier to get ammo for than the AK.

The .308 seems to be the logical choice. Larger caliber, more power, but there are variants out there to have on hand that are less powerful to keep loaded for home-defense to avoid over-penetration. Only problem is that .308 defensive rifle choices seemed to be FAL or .308 AR. The FAL I have no problem with, but it is heavy. The .308 AR, I'm not really thrilled with the idea of.

I once had a Keltec P3AT and it had problems - but then again it was a bug. I am truly interested in what Keltec has done with the RFB. Bullpup design is great and I think it's the future (although the thought of having the .308 case pressure sitting next to your cheek scares me I'll admit). It would be like getting the FS2000 (which was what I wanted originally), but in a bigger caliber.

After seeing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Xqa2vwq60

I think I'm sold. I mean, I'll want to wait and make sure that it's not like my P3AT, but other than that, it seems to be the answer to my internal debate.

I read the prior posts here on the RFB, and had actually disregarded it until now. What have you guys heard as of late about it? Anybody you know try a prototype or something to get a feel for it? Also, what's the availability of magazines (I think it takes FAL mags?).

I'm interested in what you guys have to say about it.

 

[PercyShelley]

We don't know that much about it now. Kel Tec has released the videos, and Max Popenker's fantastic world.guns.ru has a new write-up on the background of the design of the gun, but so far little else has come out.

Basically, what we know is this:


1) The RFB witht he 32 inch barrel is stated to have ballistics more like a .300 win mag than a .308, although that claim has not been repeated since the initial announcement. Ballistics approaching a 30-06 are more likely.

2) The RFB has a fairly high ratio of barrel length to overall length, which is important in a bullpup because it helps to overcome issues of rearward weight distribution and excessive length of pull.

3) There is some concern that casings may become stuck in the ejection tube, although Kel Tec has mentioned (unspecified) features to prevent this.

4) The RFB should be lighter than an FAL of comparable barrel length, and should feel much lighter thanks to the fact that the center of gravity will be much closer to the shooter.

If the RFB is generally reliable and well built, which is a big if because Kel Tec has thus far been something of a budget company and the innards of the gun are completely novel and thus untested, it ought to be a great model to own. On paper, which is all we really know about it now, it looks fantastic.



Warning: Frivolous musing ahead!

It occurs to me that if Kel Tec replaced the compression spring behind the bolt assembly group with a leaf spring anchored next to the hammer and magazine release, or a tension spring running parallel to the bolt, they could save a couple more inches off the rifle.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

It's on my radar. I'm keeping an eye on it... I'll wait and see...

My P32 works great!

 

[gyrfalcon16]

what do you think of the RFB?

Expensive
Cool
Not Available

 

[Mike U.]

My thoughts on the RFB? gyrfalcon16 sums it up perfectly!
.308 surplus ammo has been in a steady decline for months now, so, buying in bulk is gonna be pricey for the time being. Culling down the number of calibers you have to feed is a great idea. But, then again, variety is the spice of life too.
But, I can see where your coming from. A sampling of the most effective and readily available calibers for a given job is a good thing to have. For example, hunting tree rats and wabbits with a .308 doesn't leave much for the pot.

Now, I don't understand where this statement that 7.62x39 not being a viable hunting round comes from. I hear it a lot. It's used to take deer and hog all the time with no problem. It's even a preffered caliber for some.
Now, .223 I can understand, as it is more geared as a varmint type round. Of course, it works on human type varmints too, but, I read more complaints about it's inadequacy as a deer hunting round.
I can't help but wonder how much of this is an individual hunter's lack of shooting expertise as opposed to the round's inability to kill. I'm not picking on you, Economist. I don't know you well enough to make an accusation like that, but, I'm referring to the real 7.62x39 detractors in general. Now, some of my brother's "huntin' buddies" JEESH! Talk about needing shooting lessons. :banghead: One of'em drove up one night with a 130lb doe in the bed that looked like it had been machine gunned. And he was using a 270. Jeesh!

Anyway, back to your query. Have you looked at Saiga's .308 yet?
I am reading nothing but kudos about it's accuracy and reliability. It's pretty rugged based on Kalishnikov's AK47 design and is priced right to boot! It should be on your short list as it really appears to be a .308 bargain.

 

[Bigfoot]

My problem with the RFB in .308 is that after scoping it's a heavier gun than I'd want to hunt with making it a SD gun only, and it has more power than necessary for typical HD ranges.

I can't justify spending $1500+ for a HD gun when I have so many others that can fill that role. Heck my $130 SKS carbine with a 20 rd fixed mag would do just fine.

Since it's been stated that Kel-Tec will build a lighter/more compact RFB in 6.5 Grendel (also 7.62x39 and 5.56) I think that I'll wait for it before choosing. Faster followups, very good SD performance, and hopefully light enough for deer/hog hunting. The 6.5G hits somewhat harder than the 250 Savage due to the heavier 6.5mm bullets.

 

[Wes Janson]

It occurs to me that if Kel Tec replaced the compression spring behind the bolt assembly group with a leaf spring anchored next to the hammer and magazine release, or a tension spring running parallel to the bolt, they could save a couple more inches off the rifle.

I could be wrong on this, but my understanding is that if they shortened the rifle any further, it would automatically become an SBR. Maybe they could cut the receiver length down a slight bit further, but realistically it's already 18 inches of barrel.

I read the prior posts here on the RFB, and had actually disregarded it until now. What have you guys heard as of late about it? Anybody you know try a prototype or something to get a feel for it? Also, what's the availability of magazines (I think it takes FAL mags?).

It takes metric FAL mags (or at least, the prototypes do). I've shot the 18" prototype, and as I've said before, I think it's the coolest rifle on the planet. Don't really care if it's $1500 or $2000, it's just that sweet of a firearm...the handling, the controls, the shootability...I've been in love from the moment I laid eyes on it at SHOT. Everyone seems to have the same fear, that cases will create some sort of mega-jam in the ejection tube, but I didn't see it happen either at SHOT (with dummy rounds) or on the range (with two or three types of ammo). It might concievably occur (maybe if you start screwing around with out-of-spec reloads, or something), but I really doubt it. Clearing a malfunction isn't really all that much different with the RFB than any other battle rifle.

My only complaint is that 2008 is a long, long, long ways away for me

 

[PercyShelley]

I could be wrong on this, but my understanding is that if they shortened the rifle any further, it would automatically become an SBR. Maybe they could cut the receiver length down a slight bit further, but realistically it's already 18 inches of barrel.

ARGH!

Beautiful engineering is interfered with by useless laws!

I suppose they could lengthen the barrel to compensate, but I'm sure there would be a net weight gain.