I was in an 'interview' last night.

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Just checking in to let you all know that I'm still reading along. I was away, doing vacation stuff for several days.

Again, thank you all for the good ideas and critique.

ETA: I haven't read to the end yet (and I am re-reading some replies, because they are good), but I will probably respond when I have read everything.
 
What does 'OC' mean? Orange County (the 'OC')? ;)

No, really. You start a thread without defining it for us less experienced posters. :cuss:

What the heck is OC? It might be 'nice' if you defined it at least once in this thread. :banghead:
 
OC?

I can not spell it! But it is pepper sprays full title. Orium capsicum? Limited in range, see what happens when you stay out late?

Grand Dad of 4 speaking! LOL.

Buy a Kel Tec .380, not much of a gun, but it is a gun!
 
in texas, chl holders can not carry a gun into a night club, because of the 50% alcohol rule.

a friend of mine said that someone was walking past a trouble talker and knocked him out. of course, action is faster than reaction. since you are waiting for the bg to do something you are at a disadvantage. i had a guy try to sucker punch me in the face 3 times. there is no time to block. i could only lean away from the punch. you may want to consider pretending like you are crossing your arms but actually your are almost in a fighting stance. you're arms are at mid section. you can also hide your weapons in a crossed arm position. if you have one hand on your chin, you are even closer to fighting stance.
Daniel-front%20arms%20crossed.jpg

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brentfoto: What does 'OC' mean? Orange County (the 'OC')? ;)

No, really. You start a thread without defining it for us less experienced posters. :cuss:

What the heck is OC? It might be 'nice' if you defined it at least once in this thread. :banghead:
You dredged up an old thread just to whine? :scrutiny:
 
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Lots of good advice here- Shooter, you did great- you used your situational awareness. I have usually been too busy thinking to talk much- so I stare at the guy, look around really quick to see what is going on elsewhere, and in general get really super alert. Ken's note about cool and collected is a good approach. Generally I do not engage in conversation- that is their tactic- the important dialog in NOT VERBAL!!!
People are so damned tuned to constant static , radio, television, earbuds everywhere, they get a bit freaked at silence.
The best noise is a quiet "click". Really arouses the imagination.
 
I"m Glad You Survived!

I don't know what State you live in, or what the carry laws are, because you got very lucky. Example: If 2 attackers are within 6 feet of you, one has a gun and the other a knife; the one with the knife is the one you would shoot first if you were armed...he is actually the more dangerous (according to the instructors at the Concealed Carry Class we have to attend to get a license).

Our laws here were also changed this year to where, if you were in the situation described, especially with your girl friend but even alone or with strangers in close proximity also at risk, you are under NO obligation to retreat and may shoot until the danger no longer exists. And be completely protected from criminal and civil charges. You just have to believe your life, or the lives of others, are in danger. And don't miss and hit a civilian: you lose your rights under your CHL and are liable. Once you pull the trigger, you are responsible for the bullet.

The comment above, if I read correctly, about actually letting him get close enough or letting him "shove" you is insane. If his other hand had a knife, you would be dead. Your life was at serious risk at that point.

The only shared issue we face is carrying in bars. In Texas, if an establishment makes 51% or more of their revenue from alcohol sales, even licensed concealed gun owners can't bring a weapon inside. How do you know what the revenue share on alcohol is? The owner of the establishment is required to put a visible circular sign that says "51" on it over the door. If you see that, you're supposed to leave your weapon in the car.

Since the incident happened outside the bar, you would be within the law...up until it came to the point that it was established you were in the bar armed first. But that would be a separate violation. At worst, you'll lose your CHL license and be fined. Better that than you or anyone else being dead.

I'm also assuming you were not legally drunk in which case, you should not be carrying anyway.

The reason you carry a handgun is to protect your life, other's lives, and even property (in Texas). No one wants to shoot anyone, but trying to "reasonable" with an obvious threat is a death-wish.
 
OC is a crapshoot

By the way, I'd didn't know what OC was either until after I posted.

The FBI and numerous police depts across the country have proven that people under the influence of certain narcotics, like crack, will not be affected by OC or not in enough time to keep them from harming you. It's a politically correct weapon, and when you see police using it on the news, there are usually more than one of the police there, and they all either have their guns drawn or have their hands on their guns.

If the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, you could also be the one to end up with a face-full of OC, not the attacker. Even stun guns are dangerous to rely on because the clothing the attacker is wearing my blunt its affect...plus you are in DIRECT contact with the attacker. If he has a knife, you are dead.

I own a number of guns but my preferred carry is a Taurus 9mm Titanium because of it's size and especially weight. And I use Federal Hydra-shock JHP personal defense rounds.

I also have a Kel-Tec .32 for those situations where it just HAS to be a VERY small and light gun, but I pray I never have to rely on it. It jams often, the sight is invisible, and .32 is way underpowered unless you fit something vital. I put a laser sight on it...not because it increases accuracy....NOTHING seems to make the KelTec accurate, but as a deterrent, hoping the red dot over his heart (if I fired, the bullet would be 4 inches wide to the right) will scare him off.

KelTec has got it perfect when it comes to weight and size, and now in 9mm. Otherwise it's a piece of crap. I keep looking and hoping some day a manufacturer will come out with a handgun that small and LIGHT that actually works. I'll be first in line to buy one.
 
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What does 'OC' mean? Orange County (the 'OC')?

No, really. You start a thread without defining it for us less experienced posters.

What the heck is OC? It might be 'nice' if you defined it at least once in this thread.
__________________

Google could have answered that without reviving an old thread, and Google doesn't mind if you complain. Try it next time.
 
Loadingzone, lighten up Francis. You just threw out a LOT of opinions and information, and a lot of it wasn't very relevant to the thread. Relax.
 
Self defense video

I found a VERY interesting self defense video on youtube today. I think it would be worthwhile to anyone concerned about self defense. I don't know how to paste it to this site but if anyone is interested you can go to youtube and search hillbilly vs citislicker.
 
I carry a SureFire G2 with 120 lumen bulb assembly and my KelTec P32 is always in my back pocket. No one has ever "made" the P32.

ECS
 
pwatts2:
I found a VERY interesting self defense video on youtube today. I think it would be worthwhile to anyone concerned about self defense. I don't know how to paste it to this site but if anyone is interested you can go to youtube and search hillbilly vs citislicker.


I'm pretty sure that video is fake. All the people in the video know each other and made the video for fun.
 
There as one of him and 2 males in the group and he tried to start a conversation right?

He was just a begger - thats how they start out - they try to be friendly then they hit you up for some money with a sob story.

I wouldn't worry about 1 guy attacking 2 in this situation.
 
I wouldn't worry about 1 guy attacking 2 in this situation.

The problem is, you can't assume it's just one bad guy. Like with a gun, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean there isn't one--it's more than possible that the BG had friends in the immediate area ready to come out.

Lots of good info in this thread, especially the post about keeping your arms crossed with one hand on your chin. If you lean your head in while you do it, not only do you have both hands up, ready to defend, you've also got your head in perfect striking distance for a headbutt. Obviously, headbutting someone is never your first choice, but if your back's up against the wall and you dont have an escape route, a headbutt to the nose or chin followed up by a kick to the groin is very effective.

There's also a lot of talk about never letting yourself get in situations like these, but the honest truth is depending on where you live, work, or socialize, you just can't avoid them. Especially as a smoker, anywhere I go I'll inevitably end up outside, leaning on a building, smoking a cigarette--my back is literally against the wall (it's that or stand in the middle of the sidwalk, annoying everyone.) I get hit up for change or smokes all the time by new bums (the old-timers know I don't give out), but I've never had that particular situation escalate into an obvious interview. (Saying "don't have anything," "last one," or "nope" has always been enough to turn them away.)

Never go back on your word. If you tell a guy you don't have anything and he keeps asking, don't fish around in your pockets for show. You're telling him that he can manipulate you, you're showing him where you keep money, and you're momentarily disabling your most immediate defense. I usually just say "I told you, I don't have anything. Ask someone else."

I have had two hairy situations on my way home late at night, though. I don't have a car and Philly public transportation after midnight is sporadic at best, so most of the time it's just me and my Doc's. Smoking in those situations was actually a benefit--I get to keep my dominant hand up almost constantly without arousing their suspicion. Using a weapon is an absolute last resort for me, so I'll use my knowledge of the city to my advantage, walking towards police stations or popular cop hangouts (24 hour gas stations, convenience stores, drug corners, etc). Walking towards a drug corner may not sound like the smartest thing to do, but it's a viable option when you know there's a 98% chance there will be a squard car parked across from it. There were other things I could have tried, but in both situations the interviewer was obviously on crack--I couldn't count on them making rational decisions, so I played it by ear and pretended to be friendly until I could ditch them, or they gave up and went to find another mark. Regardless of anyone else's opinion, I made it home safe and sound both times, and never had to be obviously aggressive.
 
What it really means is: If you carry a concealed weapon onto the property AND IF you are detected, you may be asked to leave the property. If you return and are still carrying a concealed weapon and are AGAIN detected, you MAY be arrested for Trespass After Warning, a misdemeanor." Heck, I'll violate a stupid business policy all day long and feel no regrets.

Actually if you refuse to leave or come back armed after told to leave its a felony , armed trespass.the statute below deals with trespass in a structure. there is another that deals with trespass on property other than structure or conveyance . It is also a felony to trespass armed on property other than structure or conveyance.

810.08 Trespass in structure or conveyance.--
(1) Whoever, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters or remains in any structure or conveyance, or, having been authorized, licensed, or invited, is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.

(2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(b) If there is a human being in the structure or conveyance at the time the offender trespassed, attempted to trespass, or was in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(c) If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Any owner or person authorized by the owner may, for prosecution purposes, take into custody and detain, in a reasonable manner, for a reasonable length of time, any person when he or she reasonably believes that a violation of this paragraph has been or is being committed, and he or she reasonably believes that the person to be taken into custody and detained has committed or is committing such violation. In the event a person is taken into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called as soon as is practicable after the person has been taken into custody. The taking into custody and detention by such person, if done in compliance with the requirements of this paragraph, shall not render such person criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.
 
There's a couple of things that come to mind here.

#1. If you are carrying a knife and plan to use for self defense, have you taken ANY knife fighting classes? There is an art to knife fighting that many people do not understand and practice with a knife, like with a gun, is seriously needed to be proficient with it.

#2. Is your knife sharp enough for fighting? For knife fighting, you want a knife that is razor sharp. Not kind of sharp. Not pretty sharp. You want razor sharp. Can you get your knife to that extreme of sharpness? If not, you need to study on how to make your knife razor sharp.

#3. Did you have the right kind of knife for fighting or were you going to merely use what you brought? Some knifes will not hold up to the needs of a good knife fighter. Some are too small. Some too short. Some are too brittle. Do some research into what knife you need to have for fighting like that.
 
If you are serious about being ready to deal with circumstances like this, then I highly reccomend that you get the books "The Three Second Fighter" and "The Fence" by Geoff Thompson. They specifically deal with muggings, verbal setups, body language and how to deal with them. What you mentioned was exactly what often happens and is dealt with very accurately in the books. They also go in depth into how to plan for these circumstances, measures you can use against them, gaining control of the situations, and pre-emptively striking. I highly reccomend them.

Jesse
 
he probably wasn't going to pull anything. Most likely he was an idiot. I have been in similar situations and HATED every second of it. Usually, I just get the heck out of there...
Actually, I would have done the same. I really hate it when strangers in strange places harass you. It makes you scared and really uncomfortable.
 
He was just a begger - thats how they start out - they try to be friendly then they hit you up for some money with a sob story.
He never made any request for money or anything else. I'm not going to lower my guard and turn my back because there's a good chance that some guy is just a beggar. "Can you spare a quarter?" is also how muggers get close to you too.

There's a couple of things that come to mind here.

#1. If you are carrying a knife and plan to use for self defense, have you taken ANY knife fighting classes? There is an art to knife fighting that many people do not understand and practice with a knife, like with a gun, is seriously needed to be proficient with it.

#2. Is your knife sharp enough for fighting? For knife fighting, you want a knife that is razor sharp. Not kind of sharp. Not pretty sharp. You want razor sharp. Can you get your knife to that extreme of sharpness? If not, you need to study on how to make your knife razor sharp.

#3. Did you have the right kind of knife for fighting or were you going to merely use what you brought? Some knifes will not hold up to the needs of a good knife fighter. Some are too small. Some too short. Some are too brittle. Do some research into what knife you need to have for fighting like that.
When I am alone, my last resort for fighting is with a knife. That's because I am a good runner...
To answer #1 - no, I have not really "planned" to use my knife for self defense. Because I would choose a knife LAST as a fighting option, I have not chosen my carry knife for its defensive features.
#2 - My EDC knife is sharp ...for an EDC knife. It will shave hair, but I would guess that's the bare minimum sharpness for a fighting knife. See below*
#3 - No. I have a great EDC knife, using an Axis lock from Benchmade (3.25", aluminum handle, wide, Bowie blade). I'm sure the best kind of knife for fighting is a fixed blade. Any knife whose blade does not fold is illegal where I was that night. Yep, I'm sure that even a 1/2" fixed-blade is technically illegal.
...When I am with a girl, everything changes and running is no longer an option. I wasn't carrying a gun that night. Even though I am unskilled at knife fighting, I'd still rather have a blade in my hand when going up against the unknown, than to go unarmed.

*I have changed my carry options...
I now carry a smaller, slimmer gun, the Kel-tec PF-9, so there is a better chance I will not leave it behind in favor of political correctness. I also carry at least one bright flashlight all the time and it is almost always in my hand when I'm walking any place that is dimly lit. I carry the same knife as previously, but I now carry a second knife, the Ka-bar TDI (2.3" fixed blade). The TDI is kept extremely sharp. It will shave hair without any effort and I do not use it for any general knife-uses. I had stopped carrying OC (pepper spray) because it is too bulky for pants-pocket carry. Now that it's getting cooler, I will begin carrying OC again in my jacket.
 
You seem to infer that you can legally carry a handgun with you, but choose to leave it at home when you go dancing with strange women? If you are concerned about your own safety enough to go about the hassle of getting the permits to carry a handgun, why would you leave it at home when you go to a nightclub? Didnt anyone tell you bars and nightclubs have a higher percentage of muggings and violent crime?

That doesnt hold for all nightclubs, but just watching my local news here in michigan, theres always a shooting or mugging at the local nightclubs. Typically afterhours when everyone is drunk and easier pickings for stronghand tactics.
If he was going to a nightclub, it would probably be illegal to carry a gun. Just as it is in Michigan.

Edit: damn this thing is OLD.
 
Gunsmith,

How is it that you are not a Senior Member with 5913 posts? Just curious.
 
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