Did something stupid last night...

[joey93turbo]

Before I say what happened, I'll ask what you guys would have done.


Last week we were at the house of my buddy Sam's new girlfriend. Her ex shows up with a couple of his friends, but it's ok cause he's not causing problems. One of his friends gets a few beers in him and starts talkin ???? to Sam. Normally my buddy would have punched him but he hadn't been dating the girl long so he didn't wanna fight in front of her. Anyway, they leave to go home and that's it.

Now, last night. We were at the bar and this girl i hang out with sometimes calls me up and says she's at a house near where we are and that she wants to hang out. I say ok i'll call back when we leave the bar. We leave the bar and I call her and this guy picks up the phone and starts talkin ????. It was the guy that was talkin ???? to sam the week before. I'm not much for ???? talkin so I hung up the phone and he keeps callin back. One of my buddies takes my phone and starts talkin to him while i'm over talkin to a girl not payin attention to what's being said. I go get my phone back and we go to sam's girlfriends house, which is down the street from where the guy lives. So we're standing outside drinkin beer BS'in and the guys drive by in an SUV with paintball guns, shooting us. We all got hit at least once. They turned the PSI way up and the paintballs were frozen, so they bled pretty bad.

Right there, i want to know what you guys would have done...

By the way, i wasn't carrying, just had my trusty benchmade.

 

[gunsmith]

I hope you called the police!

I guess since you knew you would be drinking you didn't carry your gun (good choice)

If I have a gun on me and some one starts shooting me I would shoot back,if your hit in the eye at close range by one of those it's bad news.
I seem to remember a similar case in which some idiots shot someone with a paint marker and got themselves shot with a .357,no charges were filed against gun owner.

Press charges against the morons!

 

[joey93turbo]

I've never been shot with a paintball before last night. Although it didn't hurt much (i'd been drinking) just the impact pressure on my chest led me to believe i may have been shot (with a real gun). If I was carrying there's no doubt i would have drawn and fired at the vehicle just out of instinct.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Sounds like Assault with a Deadly Weapon (ADW), a felony anywhere. Take photos of your wounds, see a doctor. file charges, don't have any communication with the perp.

 

[odysseus]

Funny how one reads here about all this drinking and going to the bar with all this activity...

...you seeing a connection here? Change your plateau...

 

[Unisaw]

What Ody said. Have you ever noticed how many stories that end up with someone shot, murdered, or in jail include, at some point in the story, hanging out at bars? I believe one's exposure to bad things happening drops dramatically simply by not frequenting bars.

 

[Penforhire]

That's real easy. Like some others said, call the police. That's ADW and world of hurt for the guy(s) you can identify.

 

[gryphon]

"You lie with dogs, you're bound to get fleas."

I don't care how nice the girls is, if those guys she is hanging around act like that then you shouldn't be hanging around her or them.

I'd call the police and tell them you were assaulted and file a report. That way, you'll have a history on these guys in case incidents like this keep occurring or, God forbid, escalate.

Now is the time to CYA, not trying to convince people after the fact that these guys were scumbags.

 

[hso]

First, I'd have dropped and saught cover.

Second, I probably would have returned fire.





Zeroth, I wouldn't have put myself in such a screwed up situation. You should never trust anyone to use your phone when dealing with a hostile dumbass, especially of alcohol is involved. Your "buddy" may not be able to resist the temptation to get you into bigger trouble thinking it's funny. You shouldn't hang with folks that hang with folks that are trouble. If a situation get's the least little bit hostile you should check out for the house and let things die down. Carrying a gun may put a greater responsibility on you to be civil and avoid conflict, but it's probably better to be civil and avoid trouble regargless.

The only thing you did correct was to not have a gun on you while you were drinking. You should have left the knife at home also.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

"The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is: Don't be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don't go to stupid places. Don't associate with stupid people. Don't do stupid things."

John Farnam, Defense Training International, Inc.
http://www.defense-training.com/quips/19Mar03.html

 

[hillbilly]

I think a pattern is beginning to develop here....

I.E....find some new buddies and and a new girl to hang out with.

hillbilly

 

[jdege]

When someone comes out of a chemical treatment program, the hardest thing for them is often the need to stop hanging around with the folks they'd been hanging around with.

It's hard to avoid self-destructive behavior when your friends and acquiantances are bound and determined to engage in it.

It's hard to stay clean of drugs when all of your friends are using. Ditto for alcohol abuse. And ditto again for just plain acting stupid.

But sometimes, you need to do it. To tell all those idiot acquiantances to stay away, and to tell your few good friends that you're not going to be able to have anything to do with them until they're clean, or sober, or just no longer stupidly reckless.

And there's more to this than just how they influence your own behavior. They influence how you are perceived, and that can matter a great deal.

If you ever do have to pull a gun in self defense, think about how you're going to convince a prosecutor that it was self defense. A lot of that is going to be convincing him that you're a perfectly ordinary honest citizen who was doing everything possible to avoid trouble.

A couple of incidents of hanging around drinking with folks who engage in drive-by paintball shootings can make that near-impossible.

 

[WonderNine]

Drinking Bud Light, smack talking over cell phones, paintballing each other. Sounds like a real girls night out.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Normally my buddy would have punched him but he hadn't been dating the girl long so he didn't wanna fight in front of her.

Just so we can all be clear on this . . . How long should you date a girl before you fight in front of her? Sounds like a country song in the making.

 

[farscott]

Second, I probably would have returned fire.

I am not sure this would have been a good idea for a few reasons: 1) Not so sure what is behind the moving target of the SUV but it sounds like other residences, 2) the original poster had been imbibing alcohol and alcohol and firearms do not mix, and 3) the legal ramifications of returning paintball fire with a firearm while under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs make for lots of legal expense and a bit too much police questioning for my liking.

If I could avoid being hit by seeking cover, I would do so, retreat to a building, and contact the law enforcement authorities. If the SUV returned for a second pass, I might be willing to strike back, but my first instinct would be to get to some cover. Of course, my instincts have been reinforced by the local case of a woman charged with murder for shooting the alleged thief of her girlfriend's car after said alleged thief allegedly tried to run her down when she allegedly confronted him while he was allegedly behind the wheel of the allegedly stolen vehicle. I think I got all of the alleged acts. Even though the vehicle was a deadly weapon, the firearm got all of the law enforcement focus. That is trouble I rather not have.

 

[proven]

so what did you do joey??

 

[Ktulu]

I'm dying to know what happened.

Did he do the right thing and call the cops?

Did he and his buddies got out to "get some" on their own?

Did he enter the "my friends and acquaintances get me in trouble and I need to find a new identity" program?

Whud ja do?

BTW: I would have gotten the plate number and called the cops and made sure the white suburbanite drive-by gangsta wannabes got what they deserved.

 

[.45&TKD]

My AZ CCW instructor taught us to never shoot at a moving vehicle. If the car crashes you'd be responsible for everything (crashes, innocents) that happened after you shot the driver.

 

[Ukraine Train]

I think you guys are being a bit harsh. We don't have to be puritans because we carry, it's ok to go to the bar. He didn't escalate the situation and didn't even have a gun on him. I think it's also inappropriate to tell him he needs new friends since the agitator was a friend of the ex-boyfriend of the girl that Joey's friend is dating... kind of a distant connection there. I want to know how it ended too. Doesn't sound too promising, though, since the subject says he did something stupid.

 

[JamisJockey]

I've seen everything covered, so let me paraphrase:
in the immediate:
Seek cover.
Afteraction:
File police report. See doctor. Sue.
Find new outer circle of friends. Don't drink around people you don't know, because they might be flat out morons, you need to be able to keep your wits.
Don't drink in public. Drink at home only with trusted inner circle of friends.

 

[Jeff White]

Well, what I would have done, was not to be in the position you were in to start with. Quite frankly you are making some lifestyle choices that are likely to put you into the hospital, jail or the grave. You're going right down the same road thousands of other good guys do. You're probably working hard and playing just as hard...there is nothing wrong with that but it seems that you're running with a crowd that encourages a macho, bare knuckles, two fisted approach to every confrontation and slight either real or perceived. Let's look at your original post:

Last week we were at the house of my buddy Sam's new girlfriend. Her ex shows up with a couple of his friends, but it's ok cause he's not causing problems. One of his friends gets a few beers in him and starts talkin ???? to Sam. Normally my buddy would have punched him but he hadn't been dating the girl long so he didn't wanna fight in front of her. Anyway, they leave to go home and that's it.

What did Sam's new girlfriend have to say about all this? It was her home, right? Did anyone think of just asking them to leave? Is that what happened or did they leave on their own? And please would someone check with Miss Manners and find out at what point it's acceptable to fight in front of your new girlfriend?

Your profile says you're in your early 20s. Let me tell you something right now, in case no has told you this before; You aren't 9 years old on the playground anymore. You're an adult, in the eyes of the law you're an adult. In the adult world in most of the United States it's no longer socially acceptable to live the brawling, freewheeling lifestyle. The adult world has laws covering conduct like assault, battery, disorderly conduct, phone harrassment etc. The days of guys getting into a good old fashioned knock down drag out and then drinking the rest of the night away as buddies are over. I'm not sure they ever really existed except in the movies. Sooner or later you're going to get involved in a situation where someone will invite the police over. Either someone in the fight will decide they want the law to intervene or the fight will happen in a public place and a bystander will call the police. At best you'll be arrested for disorderly conduct at worse you can face serious jail time and loss of RKBA for life. And that's just the legal consequences. I don't know how many guys just like you I've arrested after a bar fight over something really trivial who ended up with their lives ruined. Words aren't worth fighting over. If you want to fight over words, hire a lawyer and go at it.

Now, last night. We were at the bar and this girl i hang out with sometimes calls me up and says she's at a house near where we are and that she wants to hang out. I say ok i'll call back when we leave the bar. We leave the bar and I call her and this guy picks up the phone and starts talkin ????. It was the guy that was talkin ???? to sam the week before. I'm not much for ???? talkin so I hung up the phone and he keeps callin back. One of my buddies takes my phone and starts talkin to him while i'm over talkin to a girl not payin attention to what's being said. I go get my phone back and we go to sam's girlfriends house, which is down the street from where the guy lives.

Couldn't you have turned the phone off when the aggressor kept calling back? Do you think it was a good idea to let your buddy have a friendly chat with this guy? You say you didn't pay attention to what was said. Is it possible your buddy set up the paintball driveby by exchanging fighting words with this guy?

So we're standing outside drinkin beer BS'in and the guys drive by in an SUV with paintball guns, shooting us. We all got hit at least once. They turned the PSI way up and the paintballs were frozen, so they bled pretty bad.

What do you think your BAC was at the time? You admit to drinking in a bar earlier in the evening, and you were standing outside drinking beer when the drive by occurred. How heavy are you, what time did you start drinking and how many drinks did you have during the evening?

I've never been shot with a paintball before last night. Although it didn't hurt much (i'd been drinking) just the impact pressure on my chest led me to believe i may have been shot (with a real gun). If I was carrying there's no doubt i would have drawn and fired at the vehicle just out of instinct.

If you guys had not had prior words with the other guys and had just been standing around drinking beer and BS'in when the drive by occurred there may have been a case made for a justifiable defensive shoot. Of course with alcohol in your system you would have a tougher case to make for not having impaired judgement. The problem with the whole situation is that to a cop and a prosecutor, it's going to look like you sucked those guys into an ambush. Believe me, the entire story will come out. You won't be able to hide the earlier confrontations from the detectives. You'll be stunned by what your friends will tell the police in their statements. Everyone will want to cast themselves in the best light they can and if that means making Joey look like a hot tempered, trigger happy thug, guess what, that's what they'll say. The victim's (yes the guy you shot is the victim and you are going to have to mount what's called an affirmative defense justifing your actions) ex girlfriend may even develop a new love for her now deceased ex and say all kinds of things about you and your friends. It's a new ball game when blood is spilled.

The only way to handle this situation is not to put yourself into it. You made several poor decisions that contributed to the problem. Please reconsider some things in your life, things like what's worth fighting over and what's not. Things like your friends. I'm not going to apologize for coming on strong. This was a serious situation with serious consequences.

Jeff

 

[El Tejon]

Hackathorn's First Law: Don't go where you don't belong.

Goodness knows I like beer and women, but I really hate drama as you kids today call it. Start hanging out with a calmer set of friends.

 

[molonlabe]

Sounds like another alcohol related incident.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well, you said it yourself-

"Did something stupid last night..."

Now, your choice is either to keep on doing stupid stuff, or change your ways (and the people you keep company with).

lpl/nc

 

[Dionysusigma]

hso: First, I'd have dropped and sought cover.

I find, in my personal experience, that dropping to the ground is rather easy to do after a long night of drinking. Not necessarily for defensive purposes, at least none that I can remember...

What would I have done? Aside from repeating the dozen others who said "Don't be there to begin with," I'd've copied down the license plate number and notified the police. Even if neither side can be charged with anything, it might still be a good thing to let a 3rd party know about such an occurence as soon as possible.