I'd like your finest, cheapest cigar...

[CoalTrain49]

Not laughable, logical. If you have two different specifications, it's only reasonable one will be more stringent than the other. I didn't even make a guess as to which one was more or less so, just made an observation on your assumption that "their specifications" are different than Howas.

Not my assumption.

That's Weatherbys claim, not mine.

Specs can mean many different things like barrel lengths or metal finish.

Howa also claims sub MOA for some of their rifles. Do you believe Weatherby gave them the magic formula to do that?

Who's fooling who here? Weatherby went to Howa for a rifle, not the other way around.

Vanguards are the equivalent of Japanese Winchesters. Weatherby hasn't actually built many production rifles themselves in this country. Howa and J P Sauer provided the barreled actions for most of their production rifles, including the Mark V.

Marketing is everything.

 

[someguy2800]

I personally see a gun built in Japan as a positive, not a negative. I love all the Japanese built Browning guns and the howa/weatherby's. My beat up old browning BPS is a prized possession and I don't think there is a better pump shotgun made at any price. I am also looking forward to having a Japanese built browning B78.

My father in laws 1980's vanguard deluxe is one of the finest hunting rifles I have ever been around. The scope has not had the caps off in the 15 years I have known him and it shoots the same sub moa group to the same point of aim year after year with the same cheap factory federal load. Beautiful gun to boot in a fancy grade walnut.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

I personally see a gun built in Japan as a positive, not a negative.

This.

I get that everyone likes to buy American, but the Japanese make some seriously nice guns.

 

[Kookla]

This.

I get that everyone likes to buy American, but the Japanese make some seriously nice guns.

Agreed. My dad has a Weatherby Orion made by SKB, very nice indeed.

 

[jmorris]

Not my assumption.

That's Weatherbys claim, not mine.

Specs can mean many different things like barrel lengths or metal finish.

True but if I design a tire that I specify needs to operate at 35 PSI and you happen to already build a tire designed to operate at 35 PSI, you don't need to change a thing to build a tire to my specifications.

Just because they are built to Weatherbys specifications does not mean those specifications are different than Howas and if they are different, that doesn't necessarily mean Weatherbys specs are more desirable than the way they normally build rifle actions. They could have less desirable specifications that only meet a price goal, that's where the assumption is, thinking "built to our specifications" means "better than they would do otherwise" and we already know Howa builds rifles capable of submoa accuracy.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Agreed. My dad has a Weatherby Orion made by SKB, very nice indeed.

I've had an SKB, BT99's and several Kodensha built Winchesters. I never found anything wrong with any of them. As a matter of fact I think the quality is just as good as any Beretta and better than most newer guns built in the US at about the same price.

 

[CoalTrain49]

True but if I design a tire that I specify needs to operate at 35 PSI and you happen to already build a tire designed to operate at 35 PSI, you don't need to change a thing to build a tire to my specifications.

Of course you do if you want to market your tire under your brand. Trying to sell a Monarch tire that says Sonic on the side wall might be a tad difficult. That's the case with Weatherby rifles. They offer different barrel lengths and cartridges. Again, specifications can mean many things. I'm not claiming I know what those differences are but there are some differences in Howas and Weatherbys. I believe the final assembly of Vanguards is done here in the US.

 

[jmorris]

I believe the final assembly of Vanguards is done here in the US.

Could be but that is the case for IKEA furniture as well but that doesn't say a thing about quality either.

Again not knocking either brand but the details of what makes a better product are not what location or name is stuck on a box to sell a product.

A seven year old in a Bangladesh sweatshop can make a better hat than a 40 year old American that has no skill or interest in making hats.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Could be but that is the case for IKEA furniture as well but that doesn't say a thing about quality either.

Again not knocking either brand but the details of what makes a better product are not what location or name is stuck on a box to sell a product.

A seven year old in a Bangladesh sweatshop can make a better hat than a 40 year old American that has no skill or interest in making hats.

I'm not making any claims about Weatherby rifles. I've never owned one. I do however own two Howa rifles and I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

I'm not real crazy about firearms built in the US anymore. I do have some Colts that meet my expectations but I had some others that did not. With regard to location I would say you're observations are a bit off. I'll rank the countries who build good production firearms. Germany, Italy, Japan, and the US in that order.

With regard to the name on the box it does matter. Companies spend millions maintaining a reputation for high quality and service. Companies go broke if they fail at either. Winchester is a good example. They built a lot of junk in the 70's and 80's.

 

[jmorris]

With regard to the name on the box it does matter.... Winchester is a good example. They built a lot of junk in the 70's and 80's.

It seems that we agree if your are saying Winchester has turned out both good and bad products and what goes into a quality product isn't the name on the box but the product itself.