IDPA Classifier... Expert this time

[1KPerDay]

I have no idea how the Masters cut so much time out.

I shot a glock 41 so I could classify in CDP, SSP and ESP all at once. Time was 107 seconds.

Last year was my first classifier, also with glock 41 and got Sharpshooter. I haven't really shot many more IDPA matches since, but this time I really tried hard to get accurate hits. Went as fast as I could while still feeling like shots were good.

No idea how the masters do it. They're robots.

 

[MrBorland]

Congrats! It doesn't come free, so I'm sure you put a lot of work towards it.

this time I really tried hard to get accurate hits. Went as fast as I could while still feeling like shots were good.

No idea how the masters do it.

I think you mostly answered your own question.

 

[jmorris]

An iDPA expert is just a MA sandbagger.

I made master in the pistol divisions by "bump" the revolver divisions had to classify as you are more likely to find steel 1944 penny's than 9 other experts in SSR or ESR.

May be different now that they changed the rules, again, but still not likely.

 

[klcmschlesinger]

You guys are on it!!!

My first "real" year of IDPA was last year. Did my qualifier, shot a 180. Real happy just to make Marksman. Got a bump at Illinois State to SS. Just did a qualifier this year and shot 132. Man was I excited to shave off 48 seconds. Still a sharpshooter, but big improvement for me. I will go one further and say I don't know how those experts cut so much time off

Maybe someday for me, but for now, I'm where I belong.

Nice shooting those that get to Expert or Master. Maybe I will see you there someday, and maybe not.

 

[tarosean]

No idea how the masters do it. They're robots.

I always want to blame age... Then again, the GM that dominates our local events and always sounds like a subgun going off is older than me... :banghead:


Why not drop to 40SW instead of that big pill since your not running a 1911?

 

[g.willikers]

It's easy to understand how the fastest idpa shooters can do that.
There's a secret to it.
They just take less time to make accurate hits.
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[1KPerDay]

thanks

 

[1KPerDay]

I always want to blame age... Then again, the GM that dominates our local events and always sounds like a subgun going off is older than me... :banghead:


Why not drop to 40SW instead of that big pill since your not running a 1911?

I typically default to a SIG P226 in 9mm but I wanted to classify in all three "main" classes so I could shoot what I wanted. I generally shoot a different gun each match... probably why I'm not superlative with any of them.

 

[1KPerDay]

An iDPA expert is just a MA sandbagger.

eh?.....

 

[MrBorland]

eh?.....

I think he means the expert field is pretty deep, and you'll occasionally run into "that guy" who really could be/ought to be a Master.

I wanted to classify in all three "main" classes so I could shoot what I wanted.

Unless I misunderstood, it used to be you couldn't shoot a single classifier and get "cross-classified". IOW, you had to declare the ONE class for which you're were shooting the classifier. Has that changed?

 

[Ankeny]

I have no idea how the Masters cut so much time out.

Usually on the back half.

 

[1KPerDay]

I think he means the expert field is pretty deep, and you'll occasionally run into "that guy" who really could be/ought to be a Master.



Unless I misunderstood, it used to be you couldn't shoot a single classifier and get "cross-classified". IOW, you had to declare the ONE class for which you're were shooting the classifier. Has that changed?

My understanding when I researched it last year was that you could be classified in multiple divisions based on one classifier shoot as long as the gun you shoot was legal in all, and you asked your classifier to be submitted for all.

LMK if that's not allowed now or if I misunderstood. IDPA seemed to have no problem with it.

 

[1KPerDay]

Found this on the 'net; dunno if it's current or not.

9.3. One Classifier Score Applied To Multiple Divisions
9.3.1. The score attained by shooting the Classifier can be applied to other divisions where the equipment and ammunition
used while shooting the Classifier meets the requirements of those other divisions. The shooter must notify
the MD before the Classifier begins of the intent to apply a single score to multiple divisions and the MD must
verify that the equipment and ammunition meet the requirements for multiple divisions.
9.3.2. Examples: SSP score applied to ESP, CDP score applied to SSP and ESP, ESR score applied to SSR.
9.3.3. Classifications attained in this manner are applicable to five firearm awards.

 

[1KPerDay]

It does appear in the current rule book FYI.

http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/x2gukat1.wyt.pdf

 

[MrBorland]

It does appear in the current rule book FYI.

Good to know. IDPA's been tinkering with the rules, and I've been a version (or two) behind.

Usually on the back half.

This too. Stage 3 is the biggie. You don't have to smoke it to make master, but it's got to be solid. Points down is usually the killer.

 

[1KPerDay]

I think I was only 4 points down on stage 3. I may be remembering incorrectly. But I did take at least 10 seconds too long getting those hits.

Looking at my times, I was actually better in stages 1 and 2 last year by a couple seconds each (the first classifier I shot). But stage three killed me last year. I was almost 20 seconds faster this year... just need another 15 seconds. dunno where I'm going to find it.

Doesn't really matter I guess, because I'm happy to lose against other Experts compared to losing against other Masters.

CDP EX Mar 28, 2015 35.65 31.34 40.55 107.54
CDP SS Mar 22, 2014 33.91 30.11 59.54 123.56

 

[klcmschlesinger]

1kperday

Nice scores.
For mine, it was 36.31, 33.01, and 63.36.

So I am behind you, but competitive for stages 1 and 2, but stage 3 destroyed me.

At least it is apparently obvious what i need to work on:banghead:

 

[waktasz]

4 points down is really good. Now just do all that and go faster

 

[1KPerDay]

Thing is, I do adhere to the philosophy that you shouldn't really "practice" the classifier. IF it's intended to be a measure of your overall skill level, you should practice the skills involved (reloads with retention, use of cover, accurate hits, etc.) but not the actual classifier stages.

Otherwise, you classify higher than your skill level necessarily may be during defensive stages.

I guess the large spaces between times in the classifier is intended to alleviate any 'gaming.'

But IDPA is a game, just with a lot more rules. That's why I started shooting it again recently after a couple year hiatus... the rule-jockeys got to me. But a shift in philosophy helped... the whole raisin-d'etre of IDPA IS the rules that make it unique. So don't complain about them and don't really expect them to make sense. Just learn them and play the game.

helped me, anyway.

 

[waktasz]

But if you practice shooting 20 yard targets while leaning out from behind a barricade and can shoot those fast and clean on demand, isn't that good? Space the targets differently or put hard cover on them if you must. There's nothing wrong with practicing the classifier. It's just one set of skills you need to master.

 

[jmorris]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris
An iDPA expert is just a MA sandbagger.
eh?.....

There are three groups in IDPA. The guys and gals that just shoot what they can and "let the chips fall". The sand bagger, that classifies as needed but generally bumps up in position at sanctioned matches (wins). The last group is the grand bagger, they practice nothing but the classifier and classify above their match ability (don't win).

Since the Wilson divorce the stability of IDPA has been upset and there has been some back and forth on the above but it is generally the same now.

I can say I have not shot a classifier since the day I became a 5 gun MA but it would likely helped at nationals a few times...

 

[tarosean]

I generally shoot a different gun each match... probably why I'm not superlative with any of them.

Yeah I spent a lot of last year and the first part of this year, shooting different guns and divisions. It killed me, finishing way down the line. Wont be doing that again.

 

[ny32182]

On a standard classifier, it is easy to figure out how they do it. You know what the goal is, and you know exactly what shots are required, so you just look at the time and points you need on those shots, and then practice with those as a goal. For a fairly close-to-the-wire master score on the IDPA classifier you need to do the following:


Stage 1:

String 1: 1.5 Draw to first shot(D-1) + .25 Split to second body + .35 Split to head = 2.10
String 2: Same = 2.10
String 3: Same = 2.10
String 4: 1.5 D-1 + .35x5 Splits for heads = 3.25
String 5: 1.5 D-1 + .45x2 Splits for weak hand = 2.40
String 6: 1.5 D-1 + .25x2 + 2.0 Slide-lock Reload (SLR) + .25x2 = 4.50
String 6: 1.75 D-1 + .30x5 Splits for strong hand = 3.25

Total time = 19.70
Total points down = 10 = 5.00
Stage 1 Total = 24.70
----------

Stage2:

String 1: 1.75 D-1 + .30x5 = 3.25
String 2: Same = 3.25
String 3: 2.0 D-1 + .30x5 + 2.25 SLR + .30x5 = 7.25
String 4: 2.0 D-1 + .35x5 = 3.75

Total time = 17.50
Total points down = 10 = 5.00
Stage 2 Total = 22.50
----------

Stage 3:

String 1: 3.0 D-1 + .50x5 + 4.0 Tactical Reload (TR) + .50x5 = 12.00
String 2: Same + 2.0 extra for movement and kneeling (stuff mag on move) = 14.00
String 3: 2.5 D-1 + .45x5 = 4.75

Total time = 30.75
Total points down = 20 = 10.00
Stage 3 Total = 40.75
----------

Match grand total = 87.95
--------------------

This is not some super-high bar that can only be achieved by the young and spry shooter. Anything above can be done by anyone without a serious physical disability, that can still see the sights and is willing to put in some work.

 

[klcmschlesinger]

Baby steps at getting better

I really just shoot the qualifier so I can shoot the Sanctioned matches and compete within a bracket of people of similar skills.

I work in baby steps. Work on my weaknesses. Steel and swingers was a major weak point of my game. Thank goodness there isn't much steel but missing a steel popper over and over and then missing the swinger will really kill a stage.

Reload, mine are pretty good now. Knocks off some time but really just is one less thing to worry about when they are smooth.

One handed shooting, strong and weak. Get some descent times and down zeros on those few stages, and you are moving up the scoreboard.

Procedurals and FTN. Keep those to none and you won't be wondering "what if".

For those of you that are Masters or Experts, this seems remedial, but the first step to fixing problems, is recognizing them.

 

[MrBorland]

You know what the goal is, and you know exactly what shots are required, so you just look at the time and points you need on those shots, and then practice with those as a goal.

I like ny32182's analysis, but I do think his hypothetical shooter dropped too many points and was likely running on the ragged edge of control, which is risky business. I don't have to tell ny32182 this, but master level shooters generally always shoot within their control (which is one reason why they're masters).

As a general rule for anyone, if you've run a solid classifier, Stage 3 should comprise about 40% of your total time, and total time added from points down would be roughly 10% of your raw. Much beyond 10%-12%, and you're likely out of control, and your final time will most likely suffer for it. For an 87.95 run, my idealized breakdown would be something like this:

Stage 1:
Raw = 25.76
PDs = 3 = 1.5sec
Total = 27.26

Stage 2:
Raw = 24.01
PDs = 3 = 1.5sec
Total = 25.51

Stage 3:
Raw = 30.18
PDs = 10 = 5 sec
total = 35.18

Total Raw Time = 79.95
Total PDs = 16 = 8 seconds (10%)
Total Time = 87.95