IDPA Gun List

[GlockNation]

Does anyone know if there is an IDPA gun list? I looked at the regulations and could not figure out if my gun was qualified/disqualified. I called their office and they did not know!! I finally uncovered info that since my gun is discontinued and less than 20,000 were made, I can't use it (S&W 1076).

If no one has such a list, could you kind folks post what gun you use effectively and in what class you are allowed to use it?

Also, if you could list the 5 most common guns you have seen used in each class.

Many, many, thanks!

 

[OH25shooter]

I've never fired an IDPA course, but I did recently attend one. I noticed a couple things. The holster restrictions are tight. Certain brand makers seem to dominate. I'm not to keen on a no-cant holster. Any degree of cant is illegal. Regarding firearms, I saw a few custom 1911's, Glock, CZ and others. If I were to compete, I'd use my Sig P229. Talking to the competitors it seems anything is legal, because you are placed in classes according to the firearm you use.

 

[GlockNation]

Thanks, OH25shooter!. I appreciate your observations, especially on the holsters. I had not got far enough into this to pick up on the no-cant thing.

Anyway, it seems that IDPA may be getting away from their original purpose of "bring what you have to the fight, as long as it's not a race gun" if I can't use my 1076 just because less than 20,000 of them were made and the gun is discontinued.

 

[jmorris]

I believe the 20,000-production rule only counts for SSP. If you’re determined to compete with the S&W you can always shoot it in ESP.

 

[ChristopherG]

Any degree of cant is illegal.

That's incorrect. I and lots of other shooters use canted holsters at sanctioned matches. There are rules on holsters, but they are best understood by reading the rulebook, which is available at IDPA.com. You can download it as a pdf or read it in HTML.

You can certainly shoot your 1076. I imagine that the weight of a 1076 would put it in ESP quite apart from the question of how many were made or when; but this, too, is spelled out in the rulebook available above.

 

[ChristopherG]

Oh, and here's something like a full answer to the gun/class question:

SSP--Glock 34 or 17; Sig 226; XD-9; lots of other 9mm semi's (but not 1911 9mm's). Some .40's (e.g., Glock 35), but dowloaded if someone's hot to win the game.

ESP--1911 9mm's; Glock 34's and 17's that folks have messed with too much to fit in SSP; CZ's/EAA's (I think).

CDP--1911's (.45 acp). Kimber, Para, Springfield, S&W, Les Baer, whatever. And Sig 220's, and anything else in .45. But really, 1911's.

SSR--S&W 4" .38 or .357 revolvers, mainly with adjustable sights (i.e., 66 or 686 or 19 or 586). Or 3", or fixed sights. And a few Rugers--though I only know this by reputation. Never seen anyone shoot anything but a Smith, and I've seen scores of those.

ESR--S&W 4" 625 (.45acp) or 646 (.40SW).

Been a while since I did such a list, so I might be forgetting something, but that's a fair stab at it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Please don't make up rules for an outfit you don't belong to, OH25shooter. Christopher is correct, there are many canted holsters in use. The only thing routinely checked at large matches is carry position (In the back half of the body, just behind the pants side seam will do.) and the "daylight" rule. There cannot be a front to back gap along the belt through holster loops. Applies to mag carriers, too.

I don't know the production figures for a 1076 and doubt the match director does either. Nobody would care if you shot a DA 10mm in SSP.

There is not really any such thing as "most common 5 pistols in each Divison" (not class.) Much the most of the shooters will be using one of two or three popular guns, all the others are just also-rans because they were what was in the gun case or a duty weapon or somebody's hobbyhorse.

CDP - must be .45 ACP, whines by .45 GAP and 10mm shooters do not bother Bill Wilson. There are dozens of 1911 clones and mutants, but they all work the same way and are far and away the most common. A few G21s, maybe an occasional USP or P220 as above.

ESP - Mainly 1911 types in .38 Super or 9mm Para. More highly tuned Glock 34-35 every year, though. A few CZs, maybe we will see if an XD can be competitive. Ex-CDP and ex-SSP pistols that are just over the weight limits will be moved into ESP.

SSP - Mostly Glocks of various models. Sig-Sauer and Beretta fighting for a VERY distant second place. Other 9mm and .40 here and there; I know a guy who does very well with a Walther 99 but he is the ONLY one I know around here.

ESR - Moonclip guns have been moved into their own Divison. The S&W 625 rules. Not many 610s and hardly any 646 .40 revolvers. I don't know if one of the few 686 .38 Super guns would make Major. We may start seeing clip conversions of .357s as now allowed, but I doubt they will amount to much. Mine is not as fast as a 625.

SSR - S&W K or L frame .357s shot with full load Specials are about it. I have campaigned a Python and have seen the occasional Ruger but they are not popular.

 

[GlockNation]

Wow!

Thanks Jim, Christopher, & Jmorris. That is the kind of information I was hoping for!

I have contacted my local club and they have confirmed that I can use my 1076 in the ESP, although I think I will eventually pick up an inexpensive (used) 9MM (Glock, Smith or Ruger) so that I will be more competitive.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time and making the effort to provide such an informed response!

Again, many thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

The big advantage to 9mm in IDPA for SSP or ESP is the cheap ammo with reasonably light recoil. That way you can afford to practice more and compete more. I have heard it said that a light loaded .40 has less felt recoil; probably so, a "subsonic" 9mm is very soft to shoot. But that requires handloading and some experimentation.

 

[OH25shooter]

Please don't make up rules for an outfit you don't belong to, OH25shooter.

If you read my post correctly Mr. Watson you would have read, "I never fired the IDPA course...I noticed a couple thing." One of the instructors explained the course, equipment, etc. "No cants allowed". Maybe you should make a trip to Ohio and tell them they are doing it wrong. Also, FWIW, when I've contacted dealers who sell IDPA holsters I've been told IDPA allows only no cant holsters. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but it appears IDPA needs to clarify to dealers especially what is legal and what is not. They are confused more than the members.

 

[Jim Watson]

OH25shooter, I did read your post, you made a flat statement "Any degree of cant is illegal." with no mention of where you got that nonsense. I am not going to Ohio to read the rules to the "instructors" wrong though they are, but I will quote some of the actual IDPA holster rules for your and Glocknation's convenience and clarification:

http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf
page 33-34

Holsters:

D. Must carry the firearm in a neutral (vertical) or muzzle rear
cant, but have no adjustable cant backpieces. Holster cant that
is adjustable by removing bolts and repositioning the backpiece
is allowed.

NOT Permitted:

E. Muzzle forward or ‘on the belt’ adjustable cant holsters.
Those that allow the cant to be adjusted by the shooter while
the holster is on the belt are not allowed.
NOTE: Holsters with an adjustable cant via removal of bolts
and repositioning of the backpiece are approved if set for
neutral or muzzle rear cant.

I think you will conclude that anything you heard to the effect that "Any degree of cant is illegal." is just flat wrong according to the published rules. True, a muzzle forward fastdraw cant is not allowed, but the usual carry rig "FBI" cant is allowed and is popular.

Unfortunately, such stuff is all too common in IDPA matches, or those being called "IDPA style". The operators don't know the rules or don't like them so they make up their own.

You gained another false impression: "Talking to the competitors it seems anything is legal, because you are placed in classes according to the firearm you use." is not correct. There are five firearms Divisions and each is rather closely defined. A lot of us got rather bent out of shape when they reduced the maximum revolver barrel length from 5 inches - the most common on S&W 625s at the time of IDPA's founding - to four. Weight limits have been tightened up, too. I had to take the steel-backed neoprene Pachmayr grip off my CDP .45 to qualify.

 

[OH25shooter]

The operators don't know the rules or don't like them so they make up their own.

BINGO...Mr. Watson. I only posted what a "so-called instructor" told me. It's probably good you don't make the trip to Ohio. Maybe you should run for office and clarify the proper procedures for persons and dealers regarding IDPA equipment/participation.

 

[Jim Watson]

IDPA offices are not elective, the outfit is run by Bill Wilson and a few cronies.

I can work, shoot, and have a good time within their rules even though I don't agree with all of them. This seems to be not possible for some people. I wish they would go do Something Else and not call it IDPA as seems to have happened where you visited.

I doubt I will get to Ohio in the normal course of events and will not make any special effort.

My main aim was to keep Glocknation from being misled by wrong rumor.

 

[OH25shooter]

I agree. Rules are rules.

 

[nonquixote]

SSP--Glock 34 or 17; Sig 226; XD-9; lots of other 9mm semi's (but not 1911 9mm's). Some .40's (e.g., Glock 35), but dowloaded if someone's hot to win the game.

ESP--1911 9mm's; Glock 34's and 17's that folks have messed with too much to fit in SSP; CZ's/EAA's (I think).

CDP--1911's (.45 acp). Kimber, Para, Springfield, S&W, Les Baer, whatever. And Sig 220's, and anything else in .45. But really, 1911's.

A couple clarifications; I believe XDs are only legal in ESP, since they are considered single action pistols, and most CZs are allowed in SSP as well as ESP since they are either decocker models or can be manually decocked for a double action first shot.

Jeff

 

[GlockNation]

Thanks, Jeff!