Taipei Personality
Member
Thank you, Rabbi. Good luck to you, too.
IDPA Resignation
- Thread starter Taipei Personality
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Thank you, Rabbi. Good luck to you, too.
Time for a misinterpretation?
So you are saying the IDPA matches are not "fun"?
JK, lol, ymmv, imo etc
More seriously. I'll be interested to see what the local clubs do here too. We have an indoor range that is IDPA-like. Don't know why they don't affiliate but I suspect it's either not being able to hold a classifier (very well) or their profit margin is razor thin? All other clubs hold IDPA matches, but have always held the notion that "strict adherence" was A. for state/sanctioned matches and B. Never to discourage new shooters. I wore a blaze orange hunting vest my first match as it was what I had. Never had anyone say anything to me about it (other than the "oh my eye's" teasing). At times you see too much steel, too many non-threats, too much movement, etc. Thank goodness as it adds a lot of variability into the mix.
For me personally, the action long gun shoots have been what gets my heartrate up lately. 3gun or shotgun only, or whatever.
So you are saying the IDPA matches are not "fun"?
JK, lol, ymmv, imo etc
More seriously. I'll be interested to see what the local clubs do here too. We have an indoor range that is IDPA-like. Don't know why they don't affiliate but I suspect it's either not being able to hold a classifier (very well) or their profit margin is razor thin? All other clubs hold IDPA matches, but have always held the notion that "strict adherence" was A. for state/sanctioned matches and B. Never to discourage new shooters. I wore a blaze orange hunting vest my first match as it was what I had. Never had anyone say anything to me about it (other than the "oh my eye's" teasing). At times you see too much steel, too many non-threats, too much movement, etc. Thank goodness as it adds a lot of variability into the mix.
For me personally, the action long gun shoots have been what gets my heartrate up lately. 3gun or shotgun only, or whatever.
At our state match you were asked to submit the details about your holster. So you would have to lie to get thru.
jdkelly
Member
I'm with Tiapei Personality, GRD, CZ52GUY on the new holster rules.
The new rules made my CPD, ESP, SSP, and SSR holsters illegal. I'm not happy!
Respectfully,
jdkelly
The new rules made my CPD, ESP, SSP, and SSR holsters illegal. I'm not happy!
Respectfully,
jdkelly
jdkelly
Member
That was a fun day, and I'm looking forward to another visit to Maine's version of Water World.
Respectfully,
jdkelly
cadfael
Member
Actually I think my exact quote to Akanotken was, "that vest is nice, do they make it for men?"
I hope most of this talk about resignation is just venting. Its important that we as shooters do not abandon a sport when it is still salvagable. IDPA has been the first experience I've had a an action pistol sport and has taught me to be more confident in my ability to shoot accurately and quickly. I'll probably not have gotten new gear by the first couple of matches this year so I'll take the FTDR. Trigger time is still better than many other things.
Adam
Chris Rhines
Member
Well, that's just the point. IDPA is not salvagable. When the IDPA BoD institutes a badly concieved, badly worded rule revision without any member input or discussion, then BoD is too far gone to save.
I predict that many clubs will abandon IDPA and start shooting their own "combat matches." IDPA as a national organization is going to dry up and blow away, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
- Chris
JohnBT
Member
I'm curious, did the holster 'stick out' the same distance when they initially approved it or has the holster been redesigned?
One more. Have the folks with the cheap holsters been winning?
John
One more. Have the folks with the cheap holsters been winning?
John
wheelgunner100
Member
Actually there was member input. Several months ago there was a request for the membership to make suggestions to their area coordinators. I know several people who suggested the new ESR division. It looks like they took those suggestions to heart.
jdkelly
Member
I don't remember being asked about it myself...
Respectfully,
jdkelly
I don't remember being asked about it myself, but if you say they solicited input then good for them. If the response seen on the gun forums is representative of the IDPA shooting community, then they did a poor job in gathering accurate data.
Respectfully,
jdkelly
So essentially you are saying that IDPA is doomed because they will not allow Uncle Mike's Kydex holsters in competition? I guess you could be right but somehow I doubt it.
The response on the gun fora is probably the worst way of judging anything. People who have never shot IDPA or havent in years will mouth off about any rule change whether they understand it or not.
The only way to gauge response is what happens at the club and match levels. The people who want to shoot IDPA will continue to do so and the people who want to find things to gripe about will too.
Igloodude
Member
Taipei said:
The 625 is now illegal? Well, I guess I won't ever compete in the revolver division, then.
jdkelly
Member
Which is why I said,"If the response seen..."
The rest of your post seems to go off a a tangent that has little to do with my post (see above).
Although, I am seeing many people that I know to be very active shooters, some of whom I know personally, that have a problem with the new rules. As I do, also.
Respectfully,
jdkelly
Which is why I said,"If the response seen on the gun forums is representative of the IDPA shooting community, then they did a poor job in gathering accurate data."
The rest of your post seems to go off a a tangent that has little to do with my post (see above).
Although, I am seeing many people that I know to be very active shooters, some of whom I know personally, that have a problem with the new rules. As I do, also.
Respectfully,
jdkelly
mattjoe
Member
John- honestly, what did you expect? it's a for profit organization that doesn't care at all about it's members, except for how a select few can profit off them.
Come back to shooting the real competitions in USPSA, and your local clubs action shoots, they are fun, you have a higher round count and you know where we are.
And to think i was considering joining idpa so i could shoot in the winter nationals because it was close. Go buy a special holster for the game because my Uncle Mike's isn't good enough? Please!
No point doing that. I carry with it now, why should i change for a game?
Use your equipment in Production or Limited 10. Or better yet, go buy an open gun.
Maybe someday idpa will stop thinking it's all that and a bag of chips, and recognize what it is, a game, when it does, I don't think anyone will be around to play.
Come back to shooting the real competitions in USPSA, and your local clubs action shoots, they are fun, you have a higher round count and you know where we are.
And to think i was considering joining idpa so i could shoot in the winter nationals because it was close. Go buy a special holster for the game because my Uncle Mike's isn't good enough? Please!
No point doing that. I carry with it now, why should i change for a game?
Use your equipment in Production or Limited 10. Or better yet, go buy an open gun.
Maybe someday idpa will stop thinking it's all that and a bag of chips, and recognize what it is, a game, when it does, I don't think anyone will be around to play.
"I'll be interested to see what the local clubs do here too."
During the shooters brief at my IDPA local match the area coordinator asked, “if everyone received a copy of the new rulebook?†The answer was "no." “Then we will shoot with the old rules till everyone gets one.†Sounds like natives are restless to me.
During the shooters brief at my IDPA local match the area coordinator asked, “if everyone received a copy of the new rulebook?†The answer was "no." “Then we will shoot with the old rules till everyone gets one.†Sounds like natives are restless to me.
jdkelly
Member
...expect to go from 80% IDPA to 80% IPSC...
Matt,
With the rule/equipment changes I pretty much expect to go from 80% IDPA to 80% IPSC. I have a slot at the Winter Nationals if February so I'll start IPSC after that.
Why where you shooting a Limited gun at Independent yesterday?
Respectfully,
jdkelly
Matt,
With the rule/equipment changes I pretty much expect to go from 80% IDPA to 80% IPSC. I have a slot at the Winter Nationals if February so I'll start IPSC after that.
Why where you shooting a Limited gun at Independent yesterday?
Respectfully,
jdkelly
rock jock
Member
Same here. We don't even require drawing from cover.
CZ52GUY
Member
"IDPA Classic"
Well, the smart money at our club is that "IDPA Classic" (yet to be labeled for public promotion) will carry the day. While the LGB had some warts, we were a thriving little club with 30-50 shooters monthly. Nothing is final yet, but that's the buzz...so those that have shot at our club in the past under the LGB, I'm pretty confident that your gear...and more importantly YOU will be welcome to shoot in our matches. There are certainly some issues with going "non-aligned", and we'll have to iron those out.
The impact on our Regional is probably the biggest issue we will have to wrestle with short term...can we attract the number of competitors that we had in the past...will folks pay Sanctioned Match money for an unsanctioned event?
Will sponsors be as willing to participate?
Will we attract some of the bigger names like we did in the past where they won't be able to use us to help them qualify for the Nationals?
These all remain to be seen...bottom line though, Action Pistol Shooting will go forward, new shooters will be welcomed into a safe, enjoyable, and affordable competitive format.
Stay safe,
CZ52'
Well, the smart money at our club is that "IDPA Classic" (yet to be labeled for public promotion) will carry the day. While the LGB had some warts, we were a thriving little club with 30-50 shooters monthly. Nothing is final yet, but that's the buzz...so those that have shot at our club in the past under the LGB, I'm pretty confident that your gear...and more importantly YOU will be welcome to shoot in our matches. There are certainly some issues with going "non-aligned", and we'll have to iron those out.
The impact on our Regional is probably the biggest issue we will have to wrestle with short term...can we attract the number of competitors that we had in the past...will folks pay Sanctioned Match money for an unsanctioned event?
Will sponsors be as willing to participate?
Will we attract some of the bigger names like we did in the past where they won't be able to use us to help them qualify for the Nationals?
These all remain to be seen...bottom line though, Action Pistol Shooting will go forward, new shooters will be welcomed into a safe, enjoyable, and affordable competitive format.
Stay safe,
CZ52'
HankB
Member
IDPA appears to be following in the footsteps of IHMSA . . . at least when it concerns rule changes being based on something other than "tacticality." Or the wishes of the paying membership.
IDPA's equipment limitations were allegedly meant to keep things from becoming an expensive equipment race . . . then a while back, they changed the rules and the 5" M625s that were so popular, and which so many people owned, were outlawed. Now they outlawed cheap holsters.
Others have observed that pistols with features right from the factory - features that Wilson Combat didn't offer on their products - were disallowed. Hmmm . . .
In order to keep interest, I agree that "IDPA-type" matches will become prevalent at the club level . . . in violation of IDPA's club affiliation agreements. If this trend continues, the group of people willing to comply exactly with all rules will dwindle to those who participate in state/national championships . . . a small fraction of IDPA shooters. And the rest will figure . . . what, exactly, does IDPA membership buy them if they're not planning to shoot in the championships?
And they'll vote with their feet.
IDPA's equipment limitations were allegedly meant to keep things from becoming an expensive equipment race . . . then a while back, they changed the rules and the 5" M625s that were so popular, and which so many people owned, were outlawed. Now they outlawed cheap holsters.
Others have observed that pistols with features right from the factory - features that Wilson Combat didn't offer on their products - were disallowed. Hmmm . . .
In order to keep interest, I agree that "IDPA-type" matches will become prevalent at the club level . . . in violation of IDPA's club affiliation agreements. If this trend continues, the group of people willing to comply exactly with all rules will dwindle to those who participate in state/national championships . . . a small fraction of IDPA shooters. And the rest will figure . . . what, exactly, does IDPA membership buy them if they're not planning to shoot in the championships?
And they'll vote with their feet.
Do you have any evidence of this? All I know is that Joyce has said that she would bring up to Bill the fact that the mot popular IDPA revolvers were now illegal. There was never any offical word that I've seen that anything was going to change at all.
- Gabe
CZ52GUY
Member
Hey Gabe,
I did see a post by Joyce Wilson over at another forum that some of the weight restriction stipulations were based on administrative error. Apparently the intent was to acknowledge (at least for revolvers) some of the more popular models and establish weight restrictions that would set the heaviest currently approved model as the threshold. That error they may correct. I have yet to see whether corrective action for steel semi's that have been moved out of SSP our outright banned per existing language in the new book is coming.
IDPA could have saved themselves a lot of headaches with this type of issue by sticking to the 12 month notice rule...using the 12 months to allow shooters to come into compliance AND to address any unintentional administrative lapses which ban previously approved hardware.
Stay safe,
CZ52'
I did see a post by Joyce Wilson over at another forum that some of the weight restriction stipulations were based on administrative error. Apparently the intent was to acknowledge (at least for revolvers) some of the more popular models and establish weight restrictions that would set the heaviest currently approved model as the threshold. That error they may correct. I have yet to see whether corrective action for steel semi's that have been moved out of SSP our outright banned per existing language in the new book is coming.
IDPA could have saved themselves a lot of headaches with this type of issue by sticking to the 12 month notice rule...using the 12 months to allow shooters to come into compliance AND to address any unintentional administrative lapses which ban previously approved hardware.
Stay safe,
CZ52'
I'll throw in my opinion, stated in a mature manner (gripe?). Last spring I started my rookie season of IDPA for the sole purpose of maintaining pistol proficiency with my carry guns. I almost walked away from my first match before it began because of an RO who was an overbearing and pompous ass about enforcing all the equipment and procedural rules, except the one that addressed his shooting the informal matches with a Han Solo IPSC gun. I remember thinking, "I know I'm new, but there's no reason I need to pay money to be treated like this when any number of ex-girlfriends will behave similarly towards me for free."
I stuck around, found out I wasn't alone in my opinion of said RO, and that the game was a fun one to play with a nice group of people. Whether the new rules drive away a large number of members remains to be seen, but we'll never find out how many potential gamers are driven away because of rules that are, to be frank, dumb. At that first match of mine, if I had been told my safe, low-cost equipment wasn't good enough, this combined with a tyrranic range officer certainly would have caused me to turn my back on IDPA and never return again (or bring two new shooters into the fold by the end of the season).
I'm not immediately resigning over the new rules, but I will play wait-and-see at the local club to find out where the more sociable and instructive shooters are going, and will follow whether it means staying or leaving. Safety is the number once concern when I shoot competitively, but having fun is a close second. I'll go where the fun is.
I stuck around, found out I wasn't alone in my opinion of said RO, and that the game was a fun one to play with a nice group of people. Whether the new rules drive away a large number of members remains to be seen, but we'll never find out how many potential gamers are driven away because of rules that are, to be frank, dumb. At that first match of mine, if I had been told my safe, low-cost equipment wasn't good enough, this combined with a tyrranic range officer certainly would have caused me to turn my back on IDPA and never return again (or bring two new shooters into the fold by the end of the season).
I'm not immediately resigning over the new rules, but I will play wait-and-see at the local club to find out where the more sociable and instructive shooters are going, and will follow whether it means staying or leaving. Safety is the number once concern when I shoot competitively, but having fun is a close second. I'll go where the fun is.
Duke of Lawnchair
Member
That quote just brightened my day!
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