IDPA rules question re: barrel switching

[john l]

I have emailed IDPA a week ago with no response.
Here is my question:
I have a Glock 20 10mm. Can I switch barrels to a 40 cal barrel and shoot in a sanctioned IDPA match in SSP or ESP?

Assuming that I have a legal power factor, I don't see why I couldn't, but I would petition others out there who have (maybe) asked this question.

thanks,
john l

 

[Jim Watson]

A G20 with .40 barrel would definitely not be allowed in SSP.

I would enter it into ESP for my club shoots, but a sanctioned match MD would probably not allow that, either, on the grounds that a replacement barrel in a different caliber is not of "factory configuration."

We have a couple of shooters running G20s in 10mm and doing well.
Be a man.

 

[Correia]

Jim, I hope that your be a man comment is in jest. Just so you are aware John L is one of the best shooters I have ever shot with. I have no doubt in my mind that he could wipe the floor with about 99% of the people who shoot IDPA, regardless if his Glock is in .40 or 10mm.

 

[john l]

Jim,
Why are you so sure that it would not be allowed in SSP?

Your comment, "be a man", that made me laugh.

john l

 

[ted murphy]

There have been r ulings from HQ in the past vis a vis caliber changes in glocks. Mostly dealing with taking a .357 sig glock and putting in a .40 barrel or vice versa. They have always been bumped to ESP as the gun has been changed from how it came from the factory and is no longer stock.

Ted

 

[Jim Watson]

Like Ted says, it has been the subject of numerous rulings from B'ville. Caliber conversions are not allowed in Glocks.
I don't know if they care about other guns, which don't have separate model numbers for each caliber. There are a LOT of .38 Supers with 9mm barrels being shot in ESP, for example.

Correa, if I have offended you on behalf of John, I am sorry.
But...
I follow several boards and lists pretty regularly and hear a constant whine, audible even over the tinnitus, about ammunition. People buy a gun in some low-volume caliber because of a perceived need for the ballistics or just the cool factor. Shortly thereafter they are posting here, there, and everywhere looking for ammo that costs less and/or kicks less, or a conversion that will let them shoot .22 Shorts in their .475.

The quietest it gets is when I ask somebody Cooper's Embarassing Question, "What is it FOR?"

I have been accumulating a little list of pet Internet peeves, I think I will start a separate thread the next slow day.

 

[John Forsyth]

As one who likes the 10mm, and have shot club matches with a 190 pf Colt Delta in ESP, I got laugh out of it as well. At least using the G20 you will not be at a mag capacity handicap like I am with the Delta. If you reload your own ammo, getting down in the dirt, say 140 to 150 pf is quite easy, I know I have done it, and the G20 would be quite competitive in either SSP or ESP.

But all that being said, B'ville has said on more than one occasion, if it didn't leave the factory that way, you can not shoot it in SSP. As Glock does not produce a .40S&W G20, a rebarrelled G20 to .40 would move to ESP.

Correia, knowing Jim Watson as I do, and his dry sence of humor, I am sure he meant no offense.

PS: I am still ticked about 10mm being moved from CDP to ESP.

 

[Jim Watson]

John,

Like I said, **I** would enter a G20 mit .40 barrel in ESP, but a strict reading of the rule book does not allow even that. Permitted modifications for ESP include "replacement of the barrel with one of factory configuration." A different chamber is certainly not factory configuration.

 

[john l]

Jim and others,
I suspected that a barrel and caliber change would not be legal, and I am ok with that. You can certainly see that the rulebook states that a barrel must be of factory configuration. However, we are not dealing with a 38 super neutered down to a 9mm. 9mm being the absolute min. to compete with in autos.
I bought the 10mm because of its versatility:hot loads and not so hot loads.

This was mainly an opportunity to see if others got response back from idpa hq.

And it is nice when someone actually states that they have had confirmation from IDPA that this is the way it is, instead of opinions that aren't worth reading-because I didn't ask for an opinion, I already have my own.

A fellow shooter friend of mine who shoots a G20 said that barrel changes were not allowed, but he also said that if you had a S&W 610 you could shoot 40 cals in moon clips and no one cared. So, with that, I wondered if idpa modified, changed, or restated their position.

I have my pet peeves about people on the internet, too. Can you guess what they are?
john l

 

[Correia]

I've got one major big reason why a .40 barrel should be allowed in a 10mm. CHEAP BRASS.

With a G20 you can carry it or use it for HD with good heavy duty rip snorter loads, and you can practice with cheap and pleantiful .40. Since SSP and ESP have such a wuss powerfactor going for them anyway, why not just be able to shoot your lower power .40 loads that you have already worked up anyway?

As for being a man, John and I have shot with a guy whose CDP loads make (I'm not making this up) 230 power factor. (that ain't grain, thats power factor!) Of course he never wins anything, and he breaks a lot of gun parts, but in comparison I suppose that all of the rest of us are feeble little girly men.

 

[Jim Watson]

.40 in a 610?
It gets worse. I recently read of a shooter using GAP in a 625. The shorter case gave more uniform velocity with ever lighter loads right down to PF 125. And ejected easier.

On the other hand, Mack R. in Florida shoots a 3" GP100 with full bull magnums. He is a real martial artist.

I wonder... there are a lot of Swedish '07s with their 9mm Browning Long chambers bushed for .380; the Germans converted 9mm Steyrs to 9mm P'08 that way, the Navy tried converting M1s to .308 similarly. Wonder if you could sleeve a stock G20 barrel to headspace .40s and pass? Naah.

Or just load the 10mm down. Except the brass isn't cheap to free.

 

[DragonFire]

The thing with the 610 is that even the owner's manual states you can fire .40 S&W through it.

So from an IDPA stand point, you're still using the revolver as it came from the factory so there's no rule infraction.

IDPA doesn't seem to worry too much about revolvers anyway.


Can I ask why you'd want to swap barrels as opposed to just downloading the rounds?

 

[John Forsyth]

One main reason, cheap brass. 10mm brass is not cheap, and .40 is practically free.

 

[Correia]

John and I are in the same club. The range we use is also used by a bunch of local PDs for training. I could fill up a 55 gallon drum of .40 brass in one afternoon with out even trying hard. Wheras for .45 I have to compete with thirty other guys. 10mm is even rarer.

My next comp gun is going to be a .40 just for that reason. With casting my own lead, I can reload .40 for about 3 or 4 cents each, and I would never have to scrounge brass again.

 

[CZ52GUY]

It's a fair question

Given that it isn't listed as a prohibited mod', I think it's useful to pose the question.

Given model similarities between some .357Sig/40S&W's on some platform, the barrel swap in some cases effectively gives you "two guns". Other than slide markings, someone might not know that you didn't buy it in 40'...others are competing with virtually the identical platform. No unfair advantage there.

With the G20, since it's a bit oversized compared to the G22, you can't make the same case. However, when compared to a G35 (specifically listed as SSP), I don't see where a G20 in .40 gives any huge advantage over a G35. For a local club match, I'd hope most MD's would let you compete with it and understand the financial implications. For the "fancy trophy meets", I guess I can see the argument to require it to be in "full power configuration" based on the IDPA philosophy re: "equipment racing" (where would you draw the line). At the same time, there is a philosophy to give the shooter the benefit of the doubt in every circumstance possible.

I'm curious how they rule on this one...I hope they give you a response soon.

Good luck!

CZ52' (a.k.a. "manly man" ) jeesh...