TheFederalistWeasel
member
Do a search of the internet for "automobile exception rule" Search and Seizure and read up before you take that approach.
If an officer asks if you have guns in the car....
- Thread starter Ukraine Train
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Ukraine Train
Member
Sooo.... I still don't think we've really received an answer to my original question lol.
TheFederalistWeasel
member
Let me lay out for you what CAN happen in Georgia before you head down this road straight to jail.
In GA…
Now you have been arrested and will be taken to jail for whatever traffic offense you have committed I will now under GA law tow your vehicle, requiring me to do a vehicle inventory search.
If you refuse to allow me entry into your car under the given circumstances…
That first one is very vague and ambiguous isn’t it? I successfully charged and won against a lady who was refusing to allow me to question her 16-year-old daughter in connection with an assault that she witnessed. I arrested mom on the spot took her to jail and charged her with obstruction she spoke with a lawyer prior to court and pled guilty to misdemeanor obstruction.
And now read that last one…
By offering or doing violence it’s a felony, the simple act of offering violence a felony, good by firearms, isn’t this what it’s all about to most of you, firearm ownership?
And since were now at this point, just what the heck is in that car anyway that you are so fearful of, if you are a law abiding person legally carrying?
Paranoid much….
In GA…
Now you have been arrested and will be taken to jail for whatever traffic offense you have committed I will now under GA law tow your vehicle, requiring me to do a vehicle inventory search.
If you refuse to allow me entry into your car under the given circumstances…
That first one is very vague and ambiguous isn’t it? I successfully charged and won against a lady who was refusing to allow me to question her 16-year-old daughter in connection with an assault that she witnessed. I arrested mom on the spot took her to jail and charged her with obstruction she spoke with a lawyer prior to court and pled guilty to misdemeanor obstruction.
And now read that last one…
By offering or doing violence it’s a felony, the simple act of offering violence a felony, good by firearms, isn’t this what it’s all about to most of you, firearm ownership?
And since were now at this point, just what the heck is in that car anyway that you are so fearful of, if you are a law abiding person legally carrying?
Paranoid much….
Valkman
Member
No, you don't. Unless you consent to a search or he has some valid reason to search you don't have to let him in.
I haven't been pulled over in a long time, but I can't figure out why they'd even ask if you have firearms in the car. Back when I used to get pulled over regularly no one ever asked that.
It's nice to live in a state that has no restrictions on how firearms are carried - they don't even have to be unloaded here. If you're carrying handguns in Vegas you have to have the "blue card" for each gun and if you have a Class 3 gun you must carry a copy of the paperwork for that.
bogie
Member
"Oh! I would _never_ have anything illegal in my car!"
Maybe i just got
back from the adult store with some hmm hmm marital aids.
What exactly are you Fishing for?
Its none of your damm business whats in my car if i am not breaking any laws.
But your willing to violate my rights to go fishing.
Who is being paranoid. Can i come over to your house and look around? I think the answer is you wouldnt like that. What are you being paranoid of?
back from the adult store with some hmm hmm marital aids.
What exactly are you Fishing for?
Its none of your damm business whats in my car if i am not breaking any laws.
But your willing to violate my rights to go fishing.
Who is being paranoid. Can i come over to your house and look around? I think the answer is you wouldnt like that. What are you being paranoid of?
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
One of the pleasures of living in Colorado is that anyone who's legally entitled to own a firearm may carry it, loaded or unloaded, concealed or unconcealed, in his or her motor vehicle.
DelayedReaction
Member
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- May 18, 2004
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You don't stop him, ever. You just say you don't consent to a search of your vehicle. You never, EVER, waver from that stance, but under no circumstances should you prevent a police officer from doing something. That's a very quick way to end up in prison.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. You don't close the door to obstruct a police officer, no. But you have made it very clear that you do not consent to a search, and if he goes on searching because you open the door as per his instructions then none of the evidence is admissable. Where the heck do you get the idea that all evidence is admissable no matter how it was found? That's completely and utterly wrong.
EOD Guy
Member
No, you don't. AZ law does not require notification.
Of course, even if you don't consent and he searches anyway it's his word against yours. Remember, though, you're (probably) being videotaped from the patrol car so make gestures like you are NOT consenting, to back up your story. Also, be careful what you say if he seats you in the patrol car. You are being audiotaped inside his car, without your knowledge or consent.
Gordon Fink
Member
If you are “illegally†transporting an item protected by the Second Amendment, and a law-enforcement officer suspects such during a traffic stop, you may want to exercise your Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Hopefully, the officer will not violate your Fourth Amendment right to be secure from unreasonable searches.
~G. Fink
In Oregon we don't have any "hidden gun laws" that I know about. We don't have an AWB (yet, they will try it this year) or any transportation laws especially if you have a CHL. I will not consent to a search but I will inform that I have guns/weapons in the car (they will know it anyway because I will give them my CHL along with my documents. They will know anyhow because it's in their computer).
I would do the same for any LEO. Now as for feds, that's another story
(tis a joke all).
Wayne
I would do the same for any LEO. Now as for feds, that's another story
(tis a joke all).Wayne
bogie
Member
What about the folks who say things like "You don't mind if I look in your car, do you?"
If you say "yes," they say you consented to a search. If you say "no," they say you consented to a search.
My policy is to try to not use words such as "yes" or "no" (since they may be misunderstood), and instead just rely on "there is nothing illegal in the vehicle" or "my sister, the attorney, has advised me never to consent to a search."
Just curious - Any FFLs here?
Next time you get stopped, fish out a business card at the same time, and if they pop the question, get it out of your shirt pocket or off the dash, or whevever... "Whaddya need?"
If you say "yes," they say you consented to a search. If you say "no," they say you consented to a search.
My policy is to try to not use words such as "yes" or "no" (since they may be misunderstood), and instead just rely on "there is nothing illegal in the vehicle" or "my sister, the attorney, has advised me never to consent to a search."
Just curious - Any FFLs here?
Next time you get stopped, fish out a business card at the same time, and if they pop the question, get it out of your shirt pocket or off the dash, or whevever... "Whaddya need?"
TheFederalistWeasel
member
The Automobile Exception to the Search and Seizure laws is the United States Supreme Court; it’s from them by them to be applied to ALL courts and cases below them!
Who do you think will win when the prosecutor starts citing USSC case law to the judge about why I searched your car incident to arrest for a traffic violation!?!?!?!?!?!?
Verbally resist or obstruct the officer and then you get another charge, is it worth it?
My job IS to be nosey my job is to patrol and investigate suspicious activity; a traffic violation is suspicious illegal activity. Isn’t that how a trooper caught Tim McVeigh and a rookie cop caught Eric Rudolph? By simply being nosey and pulling them over detaining them for what was basically a minor violation or local ordnance?
A Dekalb County PD Officer arrested two, not one but two suspects wanted on murder warrants about a year ago simply because he got out on a group of young black males loitering near a store after dark. Ran them got the hit, held them at gunpoint until backup arrived.
How did he find them, by being nosey!
Who do you think will win when the prosecutor starts citing USSC case law to the judge about why I searched your car incident to arrest for a traffic violation!?!?!?!?!?!?
Verbally resist or obstruct the officer and then you get another charge, is it worth it?
My job IS to be nosey my job is to patrol and investigate suspicious activity; a traffic violation is suspicious illegal activity. Isn’t that how a trooper caught Tim McVeigh and a rookie cop caught Eric Rudolph? By simply being nosey and pulling them over detaining them for what was basically a minor violation or local ordnance?
A Dekalb County PD Officer arrested two, not one but two suspects wanted on murder warrants about a year ago simply because he got out on a group of young black males loitering near a store after dark. Ran them got the hit, held them at gunpoint until backup arrived.
How did he find them, by being nosey!
Defendant mentioned gun in trunk your honor
The police have the right to perform a search of a suspect and his immediate surroundings, "incident" to the arrest of the suspect. If the police arrest a person who was driving a car, they ordinarily get the right to search the entire passenger compartment of the car - and will usually also be able to search passengers for weapons. If the car is impounded, the police may perform an "inventory search" of the entire car, including the contents of the trunk.
The police have the right to perform a search of a suspect and his immediate surroundings, "incident" to the arrest of the suspect. If the police arrest a person who was driving a car, they ordinarily get the right to search the entire passenger compartment of the car - and will usually also be able to search passengers for weapons. If the car is impounded, the police may perform an "inventory search" of the entire car, including the contents of the trunk.
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OK. How about this, Officer Fed: You ask me a question. I say "I'll have to consult with my attorney first" and proceed to telephone him. (I happen to have prepaid legal, so this is not far fetched). What will you do while I'm waiting for a return call? Serious question.
TRLaye
Member
RileyMC and his Uzi
In answer to your question. It is illegal for you to transport an "assault weapon", which by Calif law a Uzi is one, or a handgun, in anything other than a locked case with the ammunition stored seperately.
A non-"assault weapon", rifle or shotgun, but not handgun, can simply be laid on the seat unloaded and out of reach and you're good to go. Not that I would mind you. Not all officers are aware of, or understand, all the gun laws.
In answer to your question. It is illegal for you to transport an "assault weapon", which by Calif law a Uzi is one, or a handgun, in anything other than a locked case with the ammunition stored seperately.
A non-"assault weapon", rifle or shotgun, but not handgun, can simply be laid on the seat unloaded and out of reach and you're good to go. Not that I would mind you. Not all officers are aware of, or understand, all the gun laws.
Georgia sheriffs not exactly shining examples of justice
Former Sheriff Sidney Dorsey was convicted today of masterminding the murder of his successor, who was fatally shot in his driveway after winning election on a promise to rid the department of corruption.
The jury deliberated for more than two days before returning the verdict in the Dec. 15, 2000, killing of the victim, Derwin Brown, who defeated Mr. Dorsey a few months earlier in a bitter runoff election for sheriff of DeKalb County.
Mr. Dorsey was found guilty of murder and racketeering in 11 other counts charging him with presiding over widespread corruption in the suburban Atlanta sheriff's department, a pattern that Mr. Brown had promised to clean up.
Phyllis Brown, Mr. Brown's widow, trembled as the verdict was read. Moments later, Ms. Brown dialed her cellphone and told someone: ''They got him.''
Mr. Dorsey, 62, was acquitted of two bribery counts and a charge that he forced employees to campaign for him on county time.
He faces a mandatory life sentence, and the judge could toughen that by removing any possibility of parole. Defense lawyers said they would appeal his convictions.
Prosecutors said Mr. Dorsey had recruited the men who shot Mr. Brown, 46, and that he wanted his adversary dead so he could retake the sheriff's post in a special election. Mr. Dorsey eventually decided not to run in that election.
Jurors heard tearful testimony from Ms. Brown, who recounted hearing what sounded like firecrackers, then walking outside to find her husband dead. He had been shot 11 times.
''When I walked out the door, I looked to my left on the ground and Derwin was lying there,'' Ms. Brown testified. ''I knelt down, and when I looked in his eyes, I knew he was gone.''
Former Sheriff Sidney Dorsey was convicted today of masterminding the murder of his successor, who was fatally shot in his driveway after winning election on a promise to rid the department of corruption.
The jury deliberated for more than two days before returning the verdict in the Dec. 15, 2000, killing of the victim, Derwin Brown, who defeated Mr. Dorsey a few months earlier in a bitter runoff election for sheriff of DeKalb County.
Mr. Dorsey was found guilty of murder and racketeering in 11 other counts charging him with presiding over widespread corruption in the suburban Atlanta sheriff's department, a pattern that Mr. Brown had promised to clean up.
Phyllis Brown, Mr. Brown's widow, trembled as the verdict was read. Moments later, Ms. Brown dialed her cellphone and told someone: ''They got him.''
Mr. Dorsey, 62, was acquitted of two bribery counts and a charge that he forced employees to campaign for him on county time.
He faces a mandatory life sentence, and the judge could toughen that by removing any possibility of parole. Defense lawyers said they would appeal his convictions.
Prosecutors said Mr. Dorsey had recruited the men who shot Mr. Brown, 46, and that he wanted his adversary dead so he could retake the sheriff's post in a special election. Mr. Dorsey eventually decided not to run in that election.
Jurors heard tearful testimony from Ms. Brown, who recounted hearing what sounded like firecrackers, then walking outside to find her husband dead. He had been shot 11 times.
''When I walked out the door, I looked to my left on the ground and Derwin was lying there,'' Ms. Brown testified. ''I knelt down, and when I looked in his eyes, I knew he was gone.''
yah, yah, yah. We all know that. But if the 'evidence' was obtained as the result of an illegal search, it is the 'fruit of the poison tree' and not admissable. No evidence, no conviction. BTW, I don't carry a UZI around in my car. I don't even own an UZI or any other illegal weapon.
But if a batf trace shows you bought the uzi. It is enough to allow the use of the poison fruit.
this is funny too.
JONESBORO, Ga. (AP) -- A newly elected sheriff who deployed snipers to the roof of his jail on his first day in office, then fired more than two dozen people, has been ordered to rehire them.
Victor Hill, who started as sheriff in suburban Clayton County Monday, called 27 department employees to the jail, stripped them of their guns and badges, and had his new chief deputy hand them photocopied dismissal papers.
Sheriff’s department snipers stood guard on the roof of the jail as the fired workers were escorted out. Because they were no longer allowed to use their county cars, some former deputies were driven home in vans normally used to transport prisoners.
On Tuesday, a judge ordered the new sheriff to immediately rehire them.
“It appears ... that employees of the Sheriff were terminated without cause and in violation of the provisions of the Clayton County Civil Service system,†Clayton Superior Court Judge Stephen Boswell wrote in his order.
Hill, 39, told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he fired the employees to “maintain the integrity of the department.â€
The firings had a racial overtone. Hill was among a spate of black candidates elected last year in the county once dominated by rural whites. The county seat, Jonesboro, was the setting for the fictional plantation Tara in “Gone With The Wind.â€
The fired sheriff’s employees included four of the highest-ranking officers, all of them white. Hill told the newspaper their replacements would be black.
Hill’s firings sparked outrage by another of the newly elected black officials. Eldrin Bell, new county commission chairman and former Atlanta police chief, called Hill’s firings unlawful and filed for a 30-day restraining order, which Boswell granted Tuesday.
Hill, who also is keeping armed guards to protect him and his home, defended the tactics to the newspaper for a Monday story.
He cited the assassination four years ago of DeKalb County Sheriff Derwin Brown, another black sheriff in a nearby county who fired deputies when he took over.
“Derwin Brown sent out letters to 25 to 30 people letting them know they would not be reappointed when he took office,†Hill said. “Just before he took office, he was shot and killed.â€
Brown was gunned down in the driveway of his home on Dec. 15, 2000, three days before he was to be sworn in.
Former DeKalb Sheriff Sidney Dorsey, who was ousted by Brown in a contentious election, was convicted of ordering the hit and sentenced to life in prison.
Hill said he posted snipers on the roof for security reasons.
Hill is a former state legislator and police detective who clashed with some county commissioners and a local police chief before running for office. While in the Georgia House, Hill unsuccessfully pushed a bill that would have put Clayton County’s police operations under the command of the sheriff’s department, which has 345 employees.
Hill said the firings are justified by Georgia law, which he said allows the sheriff to run his department as he sees fit.
“A lot of people are under the impression that the sheriff’s office is under civil service laws,†he said. “But my research shows the employes work at the pleasure of the sheriff.â€
this is funny too.
JONESBORO, Ga. (AP) -- A newly elected sheriff who deployed snipers to the roof of his jail on his first day in office, then fired more than two dozen people, has been ordered to rehire them.
Victor Hill, who started as sheriff in suburban Clayton County Monday, called 27 department employees to the jail, stripped them of their guns and badges, and had his new chief deputy hand them photocopied dismissal papers.
Sheriff’s department snipers stood guard on the roof of the jail as the fired workers were escorted out. Because they were no longer allowed to use their county cars, some former deputies were driven home in vans normally used to transport prisoners.
On Tuesday, a judge ordered the new sheriff to immediately rehire them.
“It appears ... that employees of the Sheriff were terminated without cause and in violation of the provisions of the Clayton County Civil Service system,†Clayton Superior Court Judge Stephen Boswell wrote in his order.
Hill, 39, told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he fired the employees to “maintain the integrity of the department.â€
The firings had a racial overtone. Hill was among a spate of black candidates elected last year in the county once dominated by rural whites. The county seat, Jonesboro, was the setting for the fictional plantation Tara in “Gone With The Wind.â€
The fired sheriff’s employees included four of the highest-ranking officers, all of them white. Hill told the newspaper their replacements would be black.
Hill’s firings sparked outrage by another of the newly elected black officials. Eldrin Bell, new county commission chairman and former Atlanta police chief, called Hill’s firings unlawful and filed for a 30-day restraining order, which Boswell granted Tuesday.
Hill, who also is keeping armed guards to protect him and his home, defended the tactics to the newspaper for a Monday story.
He cited the assassination four years ago of DeKalb County Sheriff Derwin Brown, another black sheriff in a nearby county who fired deputies when he took over.
“Derwin Brown sent out letters to 25 to 30 people letting them know they would not be reappointed when he took office,†Hill said. “Just before he took office, he was shot and killed.â€
Brown was gunned down in the driveway of his home on Dec. 15, 2000, three days before he was to be sworn in.
Former DeKalb Sheriff Sidney Dorsey, who was ousted by Brown in a contentious election, was convicted of ordering the hit and sentenced to life in prison.
Hill said he posted snipers on the roof for security reasons.
Hill is a former state legislator and police detective who clashed with some county commissioners and a local police chief before running for office. While in the Georgia House, Hill unsuccessfully pushed a bill that would have put Clayton County’s police operations under the command of the sheriff’s department, which has 345 employees.
Hill said the firings are justified by Georgia law, which he said allows the sheriff to run his department as he sees fit.
“A lot of people are under the impression that the sheriff’s office is under civil service laws,†he said. “But my research shows the employes work at the pleasure of the sheriff.â€
TheFederalistWeasel
member
Serious answer here not trying to be sarcastic.
I don’t have time for you to call your attorney, the road side is not a court room, if you want to turn a traffic stop into an epic size OJ style legal battle then you will got to jail for whatever traffic offense I pulled you for plus obstruction and I’ll watch the State Court Judge look at you in disbelief then sentence you to 1 to 12 months in jail, after I tell him what you did and why I arrested you for misdemeanor obstruction.
TheFederalistWeasel
member
Sidney Dorsey and Victor Hill are both controversial figures in GA law enforcement, Hill has been the subject of investigations before and is not well liked by his subordinates, and this just further proves his incompetence.
Dorsey was the target of GBI investigations prior to his murder-for-hire scandal, mostly for administrative idiocy and the occasional criminal probe.
Neither are police officers they are your average everyday run-of-the-mill crooked GA politician.
Dorsey was the target of GBI investigations prior to his murder-for-hire scandal, mostly for administrative idiocy and the occasional criminal probe.
Neither are police officers they are your average everyday run-of-the-mill crooked GA politician.
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