If LEO asks if you have firearms during a Terry stop

[Packman]

If he does request that you step out of the vehicle, do so slowly and carefully, but lock and close the door. If the door is closed and locked, the "Terry" frisk reasonably must be limited to your person. (If you're on the same side of the locked door as the officer, than any items inside are equally inaccessible to you and him and are thus not a credible threat to his safety.)

I see this advocated a lot, and I agree with the sentiment and like the sound of it. But, here's where I'm stuck...

How do you do it? In most cases, your window is rolled down and your car turned off. The cop is probably not going to be very happy with you reaching for your keys to reactivate the window circuit, right? I somehow doubt he's going to be ok with you rolling the window back up in his face after he told you to step out of the car.

I've also seen a lot of comments in different places telling you to only roll the window down enough to speak with him, not all the way. Again, this makes sense, but would leaving it there be enough to prevent the Terry Frisk after you lock the door behind you?

I've been kinda pondering this for a while, sorry if this is a thread hijack.

 

[Creature]

In Virginia, the police will already know whether or not the person registered as owning the car has a CCW permit or not when they run your tags prior to approaching the car. I have been stopped twice over the years by the local PD for minor traffic violations and I have been asked each time by the LEO whether I was carrying and, if so, where the firearm was located on my person.

 

[BBQLS1]

There are places in this country that are more lax when it comes to dealing with LEO. In Louisiana (Hi Dave!), you can usually talk with LEO without fear of going to jail if you did nothing wrong.... Well, New Orleans may be the slight exception. Other places it seems you definitely don't want to even say 'Hello' to LEO.

I had an LEO stop me for bending a traffic law. I'm required to inform him of my CCW. Afterwards we talked guns for a bit. I'm not sure I would expect that in IL.

 

[Tom488]

If you say no and the stop escalates for some reason and they wind up finding the gun, in a stretch, you could wind up with being charged with obstruction of justice.

If it's not illegal for you to have the gun in the first place, yet you lie and say "no", exactly what are you obstructing?

"Sir, do you have a cell phone?"
"No, officer, I don't"
"Liar! It's right there on your hip. You're under arrest."

 

[HOWARD J]

You don't have an option in MI //////////////
If you have a CPL (CCW ) you must inform the cop you have a pistol on or in the car & show your permit.
If you are not carrying it is best to tell the cop & show your permit b/cause when he checks on you it will tell that you have a CPL.

 

[Deanimator]

If you are not carrying it is best to tell the cop & show your permit b/cause when he checks on you it will tell that you have a CPL.

If it's not REQUIRED by law to notify him when you're NOT carrying, what difference does it make that he finds out that you have a CPL? If you're not REQUIRED to notify if not carrying, what's the cop going to DO to you that's not a crime or civil tort? Nothing.

Letter of the law, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[HOWARD J]

The last time I got stopped I did not have my pistol---I said nothing.
Cop came back with his hand on his gun & said " where is the gun"
Let's not be stupid every day/////////////////////

 

[Deanimator]

The last time I got stopped I did not have my pistol---I said nothing.
Cop came back with his hand on his gun & said " where is the gun"
Let's not be stupid every day/////////////////////

"Some place else, officer." So, what's he going to do now? Shoot you?

The officer was the one who needed the "not being stupid" lessons.

 

[General Geoff]

Cop came back with his hand on his gun & said " where is the gun"

I can't help but wonder why a law enforcement officer would care if/why/where I have a gun. If I was an officer, I could only surmise one of two possibilities:

1. you're carrying illegally and have nothing to gain by telling me the truth, and indeed have incentive to shoot me instead of lying and risk being discovered, arrested and charged.
2. you're carrying legally and have no reason or inclination to shoot me.

In either case, nothing good can come of me asking if you're carrying, and there's no reason for me to find out unless and until I'm cuffing you.

 

[HOWARD J]

You folks don't live in s/e MI---so get off my back//////////////////

 

[Birdmang]

I'm not sure if any of you actually know any Chicago Police officers, but I know quite a few. The majority of them do not like Mayor Daley at all, none of them like Jody Weis. So enough with the Chicago Police officer bashing please.

I would be honest and direct, and ask if I was free to go. I would state that I don't consent to any searches.

 

[Sam1911]

You folks don't live in s/e MI---so get off my back

Ok, EASY NOW. Let's not get hot under the collar or we'll have to close the thread.

No one's calling you stupid for the reporting what the cop said to you.

We're all here to learn about the law and our rights. No need for anyone's feelings to be bruised.

 

[mstrat]

So enough with the Chicago Police officer bashing please.

If this was directed at me - I'm not trying to bash them. I even acknowledged that much of their actions might be due to mandates, or the "political" climate caused by the higher-ups, etc.

I'm certain there are a few fine upstanding members of the CPD who respect the boundaries of the law. And I'm sure that most, including those who don't respect the law, have good intentions (wanting to keep the city safe, etc).

But regardless of intentions, it's been my experience and opinion that they have ZERO regard for the 4th amendment. This is based on several incidents I have personally been involved in, as well as countless stories from friends, coworkers, former classmates, etc (especially those who are not white).

That's simply a matter of fact regarding my experience.

Please don't take that as "bashing" CPD. I'm not trying to denounce their character, nor am I calling them names, or painting them as all-around jerks. I believe, and hope I've been very pointed and specific with regards to my comments about the Chicago police.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm not sure if any of you actually know any Chicago Police officers, but I know quite a few. The majority of them do not like Mayor Daley at all, none of them like Jody Weis. So enough with the Chicago Police officer bashing please.

I'm from Chicago. I know the Chicago PD from what it does, both what I've seen myself and from abundant documentation.

You might want to tell everyone why the rank and file hate Weis. Something about referring a cop for Federal prosecution who handcuffed an elderly man to a wheelchair, then viciously sapped him.

 

[leadcounsel]

Unfortunately cooperating with LEO and giving information or consent usually backfires on folks. Be polite and courteous but refuse consent and don't admit to anything that may be deemed either 1) illegal or 2) probable cause.

Do you think the Jews in Nazi Germany were rewarded for being honest and volunteering information and cooperating to the Nazis?

And while it's not always possible, try to stay in free states and out of Nazi Germany as much as you can. I purposefully have not visited New Jersey, New York, Illinois, or California for a decade. Unfortunately I had to go to DC for a few days and hated being disarmed.

 

[Art Eatman]

More grumping and just cussing than discussing. Enough.