If you had complete authority to decide any and all gun control laws in the United States, what would you do? Would you keep any gun control laws at all? If so which ones? What issues would you leave up to states to decide? And what do you think the NRA would do if they were in this same position?
If gun control were up to you!
- Thread starter RM
- Start date
- Status
Monkeyleg
Member.
No gun laws at all. If you commit a crime with a gun, knife, bat, paperweight, ballpoint pen, your fists or your bad breath, you do the time.
Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
If gun control were up to me...
...there would be no regulation, taxation, registration, or any other infringement of gun ownership. Every man, woman, and responsible child could walk into a gun store, hardware store, Gats-R-Us, or gas station, and buy any pistol, shotgun, buzz gun, belt-fed weapon, or grenade launcher of their choice, with no paperwork and no questions asked other than" "Will that be cash or charge?"
The corollary is that anyone caught committing a violent crime with their new hardware will be removed from society post haste.
...there would be no regulation, taxation, registration, or any other infringement of gun ownership. Every man, woman, and responsible child could walk into a gun store, hardware store, Gats-R-Us, or gas station, and buy any pistol, shotgun, buzz gun, belt-fed weapon, or grenade launcher of their choice, with no paperwork and no questions asked other than" "Will that be cash or charge?"
The corollary is that anyone caught committing a violent crime with their new hardware will be removed from society post haste.
alan
Member
The commission of a crime involving any firearm warrants capitol punishment. Aside from that, do not bother the law abiding, those who do harm to nobody.
Hkmp5sd
Member
You can have anything you want...
Commit a crime using any weapon, 10 years in prison, no parole.
Injure someone in a crime with any weapon, 20 years in prison, no parole.
Kill someone in a crime with any weapon, death, to be carried out not more than 1 year from date of conviction.
Commit a crime using any weapon, 10 years in prison, no parole.
Injure someone in a crime with any weapon, 20 years in prison, no parole.
Kill someone in a crime with any weapon, death, to be carried out not more than 1 year from date of conviction.
sm
member
What Marko said!!
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i'd eliminate the 4473's. ALL of them. all gunstores, pawnships, etc would be directed to burn all their records.
i'd reorganize the ATFE so that they only regulate Alcohol, Tobacco, Liberals. we'll call them, the ATL.
each gun sale would include two free magazines and 250 rounds of free ammo. gunstores that do not comply will be fined $5000. those who report the non-complyers will be given a free gun of their choice, up to the purchase price of the firearm they bought and were not offered the free magazines/ammo.
the 'felony' system would be revamped and non-violent felonies as they now exist would be renamed "boo-boos". example, john q. taxfrauder would be guilty of a "boo-boo" and would be sentenced to pay back that which he gained by fraud x4.
i second hkmp5sd's list of crimes and punishments.
those who do NOT injure/maim/kill with a weapon, after their sentence is over, will have their case reviewed. depending on their conduct in prison, their right to bear arms may be reinstated, but a second conviction will result in a sentence of 20 yrs, no parole, and no chance of regaining their 2nd amendment rights.
i'd reorganize the ATFE so that they only regulate Alcohol, Tobacco, Liberals. we'll call them, the ATL.
each gun sale would include two free magazines and 250 rounds of free ammo. gunstores that do not comply will be fined $5000. those who report the non-complyers will be given a free gun of their choice, up to the purchase price of the firearm they bought and were not offered the free magazines/ammo.
the 'felony' system would be revamped and non-violent felonies as they now exist would be renamed "boo-boos". example, john q. taxfrauder would be guilty of a "boo-boo" and would be sentenced to pay back that which he gained by fraud x4.
i second hkmp5sd's list of crimes and punishments.
those who do NOT injure/maim/kill with a weapon, after their sentence is over, will have their case reviewed. depending on their conduct in prison, their right to bear arms may be reinstated, but a second conviction will result in a sentence of 20 yrs, no parole, and no chance of regaining their 2nd amendment rights.
I'd simply drop all weapons ownership/carry regulation completely and immediately release from prison any person incarcerated for weapons violations. I would sell off all assets of the ATF (I don't care for their alcohol or tobacco regulation work either) and use that money for restitution to those formerly imprisoned on weapons charges.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I believe I'd just stick with the Second Amendment.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
The 2nd ..... and what Monkeyleg sez!
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,475
I'd tell the ATF to concentrate their enforcement efforts against the gang-bangers and leave the lawful gun community alone.
As for laws, repeal of the Assault Weapon Ban, rescind the ban against new full autos for civilians, tort reform to get rid of those junk lawsuits, restore the old days when you could mail order stuff.
As for laws, repeal of the Assault Weapon Ban, rescind the ban against new full autos for civilians, tort reform to get rid of those junk lawsuits, restore the old days when you could mail order stuff.
TimH
Member
OK I'm gonna get raked over the coals
I really think that the background check isn't a bad thing
Personally I think that if you do something really bad they should tatoo your forehead & implant some sort of chip so the backgrund checks wouldn't be needed
I really think that the background check isn't a bad thing
Personally I think that if you do something really bad they should tatoo your forehead & implant some sort of chip so the backgrund checks wouldn't be needed
Duncan Idaho
member
What Hkmp5sd said.
National CCW and ownership protection applied across all states. States expressly forbidden to circumvent any existing national firearms law. Supreme court expressly forbidden from interpreting national law to lessen its effectiveness. How’s that for dreamin...?
- Convicted felons of violent crime to be banned from ownership or CCW for life.
- 20 hours of in class training on firearms usage and legal issues.
- 20 range training and certification.
- Any SMALL ARM that has been approved for police, guard or military use is to be made available to the general public.
- You must be an American Citizen to legally own or CCW
- You must be fluent in English
- Abolish B.S. lawsuits against gun manufacturers so they have equal opportunity in the free market.
Diesle
- Convicted felons of violent crime to be banned from ownership or CCW for life.
- 20 hours of in class training on firearms usage and legal issues.
- 20 range training and certification.
- Any SMALL ARM that has been approved for police, guard or military use is to be made available to the general public.
- You must be an American Citizen to legally own or CCW
- You must be fluent in English
- Abolish B.S. lawsuits against gun manufacturers so they have equal opportunity in the free market.
Diesle
mercedesrules
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,010
I wouldn't accept a job ruling others.
MR
alan
Member
response to TimH
Tim:
If you consider the following to be being "raked over the coals", that is up to you, however with regference to your post, where you offered "OK I'm gonna get raked over the coals,I really think that the background check isn't a bad thing.Personally I think that if you do something really bad they should tatoo your forehead & implant some sort of chip so the backgrund checks wouldn't be needed", how do you feel re background checks when they are viewed against the following frames of reference.
1. The fact that people guilty of "summary offenses" parking trickets and such, were denmied the most basic of civil rights.
2. The fact that government agencies, The FBI being one such, respecting their operation pof the backgro8und check, have clearly acted in a manner that is violative of the law, as written. Their maintaining of this so-called "audit log", violates the law. Also their plan to "transfer" illegally created data base is by itself, violative of existing federal law.
Absent background checks, no such violations would have taken place, and might I also point out that in Point of Contact jurisdictions, the state police haven't been above prohibited record keeping either, Pennsylvania being an example of one such locale.
Tim:
If you consider the following to be being "raked over the coals", that is up to you, however with regference to your post, where you offered "OK I'm gonna get raked over the coals,I really think that the background check isn't a bad thing.Personally I think that if you do something really bad they should tatoo your forehead & implant some sort of chip so the backgrund checks wouldn't be needed", how do you feel re background checks when they are viewed against the following frames of reference.
1. The fact that people guilty of "summary offenses" parking trickets and such, were denmied the most basic of civil rights.
2. The fact that government agencies, The FBI being one such, respecting their operation pof the backgro8und check, have clearly acted in a manner that is violative of the law, as written. Their maintaining of this so-called "audit log", violates the law. Also their plan to "transfer" illegally created data base is by itself, violative of existing federal law.
Absent background checks, no such violations would have taken place, and might I also point out that in Point of Contact jurisdictions, the state police haven't been above prohibited record keeping either, Pennsylvania being an example of one such locale.
Moparmike
Member
I third hkmp5sd's rules.
[dons flame suit]
However, I would include the following: 5 day wait and background check for anything AP or HE of more than 10 rounds, no internet sales of AP or HE. I am sorry, but who really needs that kind of stuff, and in more than 10 rounds? I can see needs, but there is only so much call for that sort.
A CCW license would only be necessary for being on school grounds for good reasons, like:
1. You work there.
2. You take a child there.
3. You attend (over 18).
Other times, if you dont have that CCW for school, you get a warning. 5 warnings in a year, and its a $500 fine. Each other one would be $100. Being on the roads on that campus would not be a punishable offense. This license would be a flat $50 and the wait would be 30 days.
I really dont think that artillery would be a good idea to let average citizens have. Military, NG, hell even militia, fine. But if someone wants to commit a murder with a Howitzer, tehn the LEO's would have one hell of a time figuring out what killed the person, and where it came from after it hit. The forensics on that give me a headache.
Well, that is all for the moment.
[dons flame suit]
However, I would include the following: 5 day wait and background check for anything AP or HE of more than 10 rounds, no internet sales of AP or HE. I am sorry, but who really needs that kind of stuff, and in more than 10 rounds? I can see needs, but there is only so much call for that sort.
A CCW license would only be necessary for being on school grounds for good reasons, like:
1. You work there.
2. You take a child there.
3. You attend (over 18).
Other times, if you dont have that CCW for school, you get a warning. 5 warnings in a year, and its a $500 fine. Each other one would be $100. Being on the roads on that campus would not be a punishable offense. This license would be a flat $50 and the wait would be 30 days.
I really dont think that artillery would be a good idea to let average citizens have. Military, NG, hell even militia, fine. But if someone wants to commit a murder with a Howitzer, tehn the LEO's would have one hell of a time figuring out what killed the person, and where it came from after it hit. The forensics on that give me a headache.
Well, that is all for the moment.
Powderman
Member
No nukes, no bioweapons, no chemical weapons.
Other than that, go for it.
Handguns? Of course.
Rifles, shotguns? Why not?
Full auto? Buy yourself a Dillon to feed it.
Belt fed? How bout a Camdex?
Crew served, big bore, howitzers, cannon? Don't hit anyone with the shrapnel fan, and no firing over houses. Tain't mannerly.
Finally, a Constitutional convention, to write this:
"The right of the citizens of the United States to own, possess, and manufacture firearms shall not be diminished or abridged, either by judicial process or public opinion."
Other than that, go for it.
Handguns? Of course.
Rifles, shotguns? Why not?
Full auto? Buy yourself a Dillon to feed it.
Belt fed? How bout a Camdex?
Crew served, big bore, howitzers, cannon? Don't hit anyone with the shrapnel fan, and no firing over houses. Tain't mannerly.
Finally, a Constitutional convention, to write this:
"The right of the citizens of the United States to own, possess, and manufacture firearms shall not be diminished or abridged, either by judicial process or public opinion."
twoblink
Member
Age limit, (whereever you like to draw the line called "adult") as far as ownership..
Also, a quick check that you are not on America's most wanted list.
Another check to see if you are a runaway from the loony bin.
That's about it..
Also, a quick check that you are not on America's most wanted list.
Another check to see if you are a runaway from the loony bin.
That's about it..
erikm
Member
All right, I'll bite This includes some of how I would set things up. Note that it includes some things not done today (I'm partial to trained weapons ownership, dammit).
1) Release anyone held only for technical gun law violations (paperwork goofs and the like), gun running, illegally manufacturing firearms or for 'illegal' conversions (full auto, silencers, etc).
2) Eliminate all gun laws with the exception of the 2nd Ammendment. Enact one law (at federal level) banning private ownership of NBC weapons, with the exception of nuclear devices used for spacecraft deep space propulsion. Disband the ATF and destroy all government mandated gun records.
3) Push for tort reform.
4) Push for prison system reform. One person per prison/jail cell, no exceptions.
5) Classify firearms (including guided missiles4) as hand gun, long gun, automatic hand gun, automatic long gun, heavy, special ammunition2 and special weapon3. Allow firms and police agencies to offer training and certification in a weapons class (or in the case of special weapons class, a particular type) to the public. Training to include backgrounds in safe and proper storage, maintainance and use. Certification is valid for 5 years.
6) There will be a national registry of prohibited persons, which classes they are prohibited from and when a prohibition runs out. Any person may request a certified extract of his prohibition record. Such a certification is valid 1 year.
7) Ownership:
Anyone over 18 may own a weapon he has a class or type certification for. Buying requires a prohibition certification for the class. Use of weaponry without certification is permitted under direct personal supervision from a certified person, who is then jointly legally liable for the user's action1. Owning a firearm while not certified is a misdemeanor, punishable by the confiscation and sale of the weapon. The prohibited owner is fined half the proceeds.
8) Convict prohibitions:
Note that multiple prohibitions may run concurrently. In that case the tightest restriction counts.
Murder: no weapons for life (and likely a life sentence at hard labor).
Felony(violence) convict: may own long guns 15 years after release with further clean record. No other weapons permitted for life.
Felony(sex) convict: may own long guns and hand guns 10 years after release with further clean record. No other weapons permitted for life.
Misdemeanor(violence) convict: May not own weapons until 10 years after release with further clean record. No special ammunition or special weapons until 10 years after release with clean record.
Misdemeanor(sex) convict: May not own weapons until 5 years after release with further clean record. No special ammunition or special weapons until 10 years after release with clean record.
Buying a firearm while prohibited it is a felony of violence. Owning a firearm while prohibited is a misdemeanor, punishable by the confiscation of the weapon, plus 6 months in prison (cumulative) per repeat offence.
9) Concealed carry:
Anyone over 21 who is certified for a handgun may carry a concealed handgun at any time, with the exception of in or on a courtroom in session, police station, jail or prison. Permission to carry in these locations may be granted by the person in charge.
1) Yes, Junior can shoot daddy's machine gun while sitting in daddy's lap.
2) This class is for explosive, firestarter or other 'warhead' ammunition for weapons in other classes. Tracers are not included in this class. The owner must get class or type certification for the firing weapon as well.
3) This includes things like artillery
4) Firing solid-tipped ATGMs or handheld SAMs at targets sounds like fun.
Cheers,
ErikM
This includes some of how I would set things up. Note that it includes some things not done today (I'm partial to trained weapons ownership, dammit).1) Release anyone held only for technical gun law violations (paperwork goofs and the like), gun running, illegally manufacturing firearms or for 'illegal' conversions (full auto, silencers, etc).
2) Eliminate all gun laws with the exception of the 2nd Ammendment. Enact one law (at federal level) banning private ownership of NBC weapons, with the exception of nuclear devices used for spacecraft deep space propulsion. Disband the ATF and destroy all government mandated gun records.
3) Push for tort reform.
4) Push for prison system reform. One person per prison/jail cell, no exceptions.
5) Classify firearms (including guided missiles4) as hand gun, long gun, automatic hand gun, automatic long gun, heavy, special ammunition2 and special weapon3. Allow firms and police agencies to offer training and certification in a weapons class (or in the case of special weapons class, a particular type) to the public. Training to include backgrounds in safe and proper storage, maintainance and use. Certification is valid for 5 years.
6) There will be a national registry of prohibited persons, which classes they are prohibited from and when a prohibition runs out. Any person may request a certified extract of his prohibition record. Such a certification is valid 1 year.
7) Ownership:
Anyone over 18 may own a weapon he has a class or type certification for. Buying requires a prohibition certification for the class. Use of weaponry without certification is permitted under direct personal supervision from a certified person, who is then jointly legally liable for the user's action1. Owning a firearm while not certified is a misdemeanor, punishable by the confiscation and sale of the weapon. The prohibited owner is fined half the proceeds.
8) Convict prohibitions:
Note that multiple prohibitions may run concurrently. In that case the tightest restriction counts.
Murder: no weapons for life (and likely a life sentence at hard labor).
Felony(violence) convict: may own long guns 15 years after release with further clean record. No other weapons permitted for life.
Felony(sex) convict: may own long guns and hand guns 10 years after release with further clean record. No other weapons permitted for life.
Misdemeanor(violence) convict: May not own weapons until 10 years after release with further clean record. No special ammunition or special weapons until 10 years after release with clean record.
Misdemeanor(sex) convict: May not own weapons until 5 years after release with further clean record. No special ammunition or special weapons until 10 years after release with clean record.
Buying a firearm while prohibited it is a felony of violence. Owning a firearm while prohibited is a misdemeanor, punishable by the confiscation of the weapon, plus 6 months in prison (cumulative) per repeat offence.
9) Concealed carry:
Anyone over 21 who is certified for a handgun may carry a concealed handgun at any time, with the exception of in or on a courtroom in session, police station, jail or prison. Permission to carry in these locations may be granted by the person in charge.
1) Yes, Junior can shoot daddy's machine gun while sitting in daddy's lap.
2) This class is for explosive, firestarter or other 'warhead' ammunition for weapons in other classes. Tracers are not included in this class. The owner must get class or type certification for the firing weapon as well.
3) This includes things like artillery
4) Firing solid-tipped ATGMs or handheld SAMs at targets sounds like fun.
Cheers,
ErikM
Zeke Menuar
Member
The background check is a good thing, providing the jurisdiction has the money to enforce it.
Establish a nationwide gun court for the purpose of prosecuting crimes committed using firearms. No plea bargining here. Minimum 10 years for any felony firearms crime.
When a person buys a handgun for "protection" that person should be given a certificate for a free NRA class that teaches all about the laws regarding use of deadly force and self defense in their particular state. I would not go as far as to make it a law, but neophytes need to know when they can and cannot shoot the bad guy.
Tax Credits for gun safe purchases.
Nationwide CCW license
That's all I can think of now.
ZM
Establish a nationwide gun court for the purpose of prosecuting crimes committed using firearms. No plea bargining here. Minimum 10 years for any felony firearms crime.
When a person buys a handgun for "protection" that person should be given a certificate for a free NRA class that teaches all about the laws regarding use of deadly force and self defense in their particular state. I would not go as far as to make it a law, but neophytes need to know when they can and cannot shoot the bad guy.
Tax Credits for gun safe purchases.
Nationwide CCW license
That's all I can think of now.
ZM
I would begin repealing all firearms legislation immediately, but it would be done in stages over the course of several years. At the end of this gradual roll-back period the full rights of the militia would be restored to their original state.
No background checks, no training requirements, no tests, no forms, no databases. no 'enhanced penalties' for crimes with a gun, no special 'gun courts'. Just people, their tools and their own free will.
- Gabe
No background checks, no training requirements, no tests, no forms, no databases. no 'enhanced penalties' for crimes with a gun, no special 'gun courts'. Just people, their tools and their own free will.
- Gabe
- Status