If Heller goes bad- Montana may secede???

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Joe,

What I'm talking about is who would be logical targets if Montana did secede and reprisals were launched at anyone in Montana sans open warfare. It's called going after the head of the snake.

That said, I doubt anyone who would secede would not do so without securing their assets first. Swiss and Cayman Islands banks would see an influx of cash, and gold sales would spike just before such a move.

Those who are dependent upon Social Security and Medicare would suffer, but I think such hardships are to be expected and the seceding state and families might be able to fill up the void - just like how it used to be. (Can you hear FDR laughing his ass off at the thought of how he made a large segment dependent upon the government?) What do you think? Would the federal government recognize Montana's secession and cut off such payments, or not recognize the secession and continue the payments? That's a catch 22 for the federal government.

I think the solution is for Congress to back off on the attacks on our personal freedoms and rights, for the Court to uphold our rights and freedoms, and for all those onerous executive and judicial branch agencies to either disappear or actually do something useful for a change. Securing the borders would be a good start. Confining violent criminals would be another good step.

Woody

Those of us who are armed stand in the way of something terrible. I don't know what it is, but it is damned scared of us. Let's keep the fear in its heart, not ours. B.E. Wood

 

[MakAttak]

Those who are dependent upon Social Security and Medicare would suffer, but I think such hardships are to be expected and the seceding state and families might be able to fill up the void - just like how it used to be. (Can you hear FDR laughing his ass off at the thought of how he made a large segment dependent upon the government?) What do you think? Would the federal government recognize Montana's secession and cut off such payments, or not recognize the secession and continue the payments? That's a catch 22 for the federal government.

Didn't stop them after the civil war: you didn't secede cause you weren't able to; however we're not letting you have representation either...

 

[Ash]

Having a refinery in your state is itself a meaningless statement. If oil is being pumped in Montana, then having a refinery would be a value (indeed, it would be possibly mandatory). However, having refineries that refine crude piped in from somewhere else is of no value if the pipes are cut. But it is a fundamentally meaningless statement. Having a refinery does not mean you have oil. You may have oil, probably do, but it is not causal in the least. Having pipelines is also equally meaningless. Ask any Ukrainian about that.

Ash

 

[Joe Demko]

Those who are dependent upon Social Security and Medicare would suffer, but I think such hardships are to be expected and the seceding state and families might be able to fill up the void - just like how it used to be. (Can you hear FDR laughing his ass off at the thought of how he made a large segment dependent upon the government?) What do you think? Would the federal government recognize Montana's secession and cut off such payments, or not recognize the secession and continue the payments? That's a catch 22 for the federal government.

It's an interesting point you make; but I don't think one that would be an issue. I really don't believe the US.gov would "dignify" Montana's seccession by doing anything to the general populace. They would much more likely deny that there is any such seccession and target the legislators only.
For the feds to act against the GP in any way you'd need:
1. Really huge, conclusive, undeniable evidence that the seccession is in fact a product of and supported by the GP.
2. Acts of violence involving the GP.
Without those two things, the Feds will treat any seccession as crackpot acts by rogue legislators. Again, I reference Old Hickory. He didn't threaten to roll in the army and lay waste to South Carolina, slaughtering the GP as they went...even though that kind of thing was not at all beyond President Jackson. No, he focused on the officials who were behind the Nullification Act and made it very clear to them that they personally would pay the price. It worked too.
I don't know what Montana's politicians are like. If they are like the great run of politicians there are but few of them who would be willing to see their lives in shambles over something like DC v. Heller.

 

[TallPine]

For the feds to act against the GP in any way you'd need:
1. Really huge, conclusive, undeniable evidence that the seccession is in fact a product of and supported by the GP.

Like a majority voting for them ...???

For instance, the worst thing the fedgov could do is bring in foreigners to police our streets. That happens and it would be like when the Hessians were used against us in the revolution.

But tell me our government isn't stupid enough to make that mistake.

Nah, and they wouldn't get involved in two land wars in SW Asia either

 

[Joe Demko]

I love when you roll your eyes like that. It makes you look like Theda Bara.

No, not voting for them. Try overt acts of armed insurrection.

 

[Andrewsky]

No oil in Montana? Is that an expert assessment?

My family owns several oil wells in western North Dakota.

 

[Ash]

Try reading what I posted, first, before you comment. A refinery does not mean you have oil. It means you have a refinery. Or, as I said "If oil is being pumped in Montana, then having a refinery would be a value (indeed, it would be possibly mandatory)."

In other words, full allowance for Montana's oil independence was made. Using a refinery as argument for having oil is pretty meaningless. It is just as meaningless as having processing plant for orange juice. It may mean you are in south Florida and are neck deep in oranges. It may also mean you are importing concentrate from Brazil and processing it in Jersey City (which they do). Jersey City has nothing to do with growing oranges, save for economic incentive that might drive the orchards.

Or, as stated in the beginning, anecdotal evidence of refineries about one's home pointing to energy independence is as meaningless as pointing to the processing plant in Jersey City as evidence of a northern citrus crop.

In the end, though, it must be comforting in Montana to know that oil pumped in Montana is processed in Montana...or is it? Even mentioning the wells pumping oil and three refineries refining oil does not necessarily mean they connect (though I won't imply otherwise).

Ash

 

[Wineoceros]

It is just as meaningless as having processing plant for orange juice. It may mean you are in south Florida and are neck deep in oranges. It may also mean you are importing concentrate from Brazil and processing it in Jersey City (which they do). Jersey City has nothing to do with growing oranges, save for economic incentive that might drive the orchards.

Remember when the Duke brothers tried to corner the market in frozen concentrated orange juice? Man, that was a wild day on the exhange floor.

 

[Thin Black Line]

The authors of the American Revolution i.e. The Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly successful, influential, wealthy men before the Revolution. By fomenting revolution they were, in fact, risking their success and wealth. The Founding Fathers were men of drive and ambition who would have been successful no matter what.

Ah, yes, the top-down vs bottom-up driven view of history. Both make for
wonderful mythology.

Let's not forget the "mid-level managers" aka "the middle class" of the Revolution
--the people who led at the county level and risked a lot while the vast
majority of their neighbors played neutral and sat on their butts and yet a
few others remained silent loyalist informers.

I'll have to dig out the Will of one of my ancestors to be sure, but I generally
recall he left behind 200 acres, a plow, various wood working/farm tools, a
few sets of plates, cooking pots, and ONE firearm. That's certainly not as
wealthy as Washington, but if you cut out those 100s of mid-level people
WHO GOT THE JOB DONE in history, then Washington would have ended up
as little more than a retired British officer who died in obscurity.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

The State of Montana has active oil wells and three refinery's. One of them is so small that it's a stealth refinery though. Hmmmm, along that thought line, the Ramshot powders are produced in state, Lilja makes barrels, Montana Rifle Company is in production. Numerous ranches have methane producers in situ, rice is gonna be a toughie though.

900F

 

[Art Eatman]

Looks like we're a long way from any legal aspects of an effort at secession...

Art