If Not A Glock, Then What?

[WrongHanded]

The 'is Glock the best combat handgun ever' thread got me wondering. Only about 30% voted Yes. I was one of them. But that means around 70% think the Glock isn't the best choice. So if it's not a Glock, what is it?

I don't mean for you personally, though CCW and Home Defense firearms are obviously still combat handguns. But what about Military and LE as well? Imagine that you had to pick one and only one service caliber full size (or compact) pistol, for any and all combative pistol roles, for the entire Country. What would you choose? What beats a Glock when you're choosing one pistol for everyone?

 

[SharpDog]

Well, after thorough testing and evaluation I would go with this:




And there's this:

 

[Ernie Bass]

I doubt any "One" pistol fits every one. At least not perfectly.

 

[1KPerDay]

SIG P226 for me.

 

[Kleanbore]

What would you choose? What beats a Glock when you're choosing one pistol for everyone?

The Army just made their decision.

 

[bannockburn]

How about an HK VP9 (also known as the SFP9)?

Good enough for the Japanese Ground Self-Defense Force, the Armed Forces of Luxembourg and Lithuania, 5 State Police Forces in Germany, also the Berlin Police Department and GSG-9, 1 Canton in Switzerland, and made under license by Sarsilmaz for Turkey's Armed Forces.

Good enough for me!

 

[1KPerDay]

Got a new list of audiobooks to listen to. Thanks

 

[tarosean]

The Army just made their decision.

You mean the bean counters made their decisions..



OP:
Personal preference doesn't play a role unless your in a MIL unit that is allowed to choose from an inventory, or like some LEO agencies you have an approved list.

We have an estimated 2.3 million militarily personnel and an estimated 800k LEO officers. You want one gun to fit 3+ million people? I cannot come up with one. Esp. if I totally remove my personal preferences.

 

[Kleanbore]

You mean the bean counters made their decisions.

They started with requirements, they evaluated proposals, and they made a selection.

The cost of ownership was one factor.

 

[AK103K]

Since if you have to use whatever you're given, and you dont get to pick, it would seem prudent, that whatever they did pick, you had best get one of your own, and learn to use it.

Assuming of course, youre even ever going to be issued one. How much time and money does the military actually spend on teaching your basic troop to shoot a handgun or anything else for that matter?

All these threads are really pretty silly and are usually based more on personal choice (based on what is often a puzzle too), what someone may have, lack of experience with other things, and of course, good old nostalgia and war stories.

If you are issued whatever, in the military, or by your department or agency, etc, whatever that is, it is now "the best", and you had best learn to be the best you possibly can with it.

And something tells me, if you actually do that, youll find its probably not all that bad either.

And, if you insist on bitching and complaining, and dont bother to put in the time and effort learning it, you will prove your bitching and complaining to be correct, and it still wont be the guns fault.

 

[BreechFace]

If not Glock (which is what I would suggest). It would be CZ hands down.

 

[Meeks36]

Hipoints are the best combat pistol ever made.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

In historical terms, the answer is probably 1911 or maybe S&W Model 10, depending on if you are swayed more toward military or police usage. These are weapons that have been serving in combat for over 100 years and remain in military and police holsters today (albeit in shrinking numbers).

What are you going to buy off the shelf today? There are so many choices that it really comes down to a mix of personal or institutional preferences and budgetary constraints. There are many technically acceptable choices; political, logistical, and budgetary considerations are usually more important.

 

[DocRock]

Ubiquity is a dubious quality.

 

[WrongHanded]

So the purpose of the thread was to see what each of you would pick, for everyone. I'm asking you to make an assessment of the pistols you know of, consider the wide range of hand and body sizes, the wide range of abilities from novice to expert, and make a selection.

Is it a realistic scenario? No. But that doesn't mean we can't play this game.

 

[BreechFace]

Ubiquity is a dubious quality.

How vague and covert...

Ubiquity also has merits, such as healthy 3rd party aftermarket support, commonality of parts, cheap supplemental parts and accessories (i.e. magazines, wear items, etc.). Ubiquity combined with known quality and huge acceptance in high level use such as competition shooting, police, military, etc. says a lot more about a product than just its "ubiquity."

Ubiquity is a definite factor in my decision making on lots of areas of life, but it is never the only factor in decisions.

Ubiquity has the benefits of critical mass in pricing and advancements of said ubiquitous item. Very few entrepreneurs want to take a risk on developing accessories and advancements on items of rarity.

 

[JohnKSa]

There's something to be said for that general concept. A relative has a self-defense pistol that is a decent gun. Functional, accurate, durable--but he can't find a good carry holster for it. It shouldn't be the only factor in a decision, as you say, but it certainly does carry some weight.

 

[RovinOn]

While I like my Glock 27 and the .40 round, My favorite auto is my Beretta Cougar 8040. Took a liking to them when they first came out!
If I were to choose again it would be the CZ75!

 

[Rexster]

For an organization, that owns the weapons, in-house armorer support, from trained armorers who are members of the organizations, is far more expedient than having to ship the weapons back to a manufacturer’s facility. I worked for a PD which required officers to buy or otherwise acquire their own duty weapons, within guidelines, but a level of armorer support exists, and a few loaner pistols are kept on-hand. Springfield Armory, Incorporated, was unwilling to provide replacement/spare parts, and some other levels of cooperation, which caused their Croatian-made pistols to be removed from the list of approved duty weapons. (Officers who had completed the 1911 training program remained able to use SAI’s 1911 models, as 1911 parts are open-source.)

I believe, from having seen anecdotes, that Ruger’s insistence upon doing their repairs at Ruger service centers has hurt the chances of some of their weapons to be approved by organizations. Ruger has a reputation for good CS, which works well enough for individuals, but an organization needs to keep its members reliably armed, at all times.

 

[reddog81]

The Sig 320 makes sense for the military because it's modular. This sounds neat in theory but I don't think that matters for most people or even agencies. The cost to buy the caliber conversion kit is more than many guns. Unless I lived in some repressive state or country I don't see any benefit to owing a gun and then keeping track of 2 or 3 kits that are 90% of a gun.

 

[Rexster]

If I were the leader of an organization, that needed to arm its personnel, Glock would be a leading contender, for one of the weapon systems, due to widespread armorer support, and parts availability. I may well want to have at least one more weapon system, which has good armorer and spare parts support, for those whose hands are not well-served by Glocks products. I might well authorize personal weapons, under specified conditions, but would require those personnel to be responsible for their own service and support for those personal weapons, and to maintain a current “qual” with one of the standard-issued weapons.

 

[rhodester]

Any CZ

 

[jmr40]

I've been a "Glock Guy" for a long time. But I really like the design of the new Sig M17 and M18 better. I bought one of the M17's shortly after they were available and like it a lot. I want the smaller M18, but they were introduced just about the time the run on guns started. I'll just have to wait.

Glock does have a well earned reputation for reliability and durability. Only time will tell if the Sig is as good. That is why I said I like the design better. Will have to wait a few years to say for sure if it is better or not.

A big part of my preference for the Sig is the addition of a well designed thumb safety much like the 1911. I don't have an issue with no safety on a gun carried in a holster. But there are times when other methods of carrying and storing a gun do not involve a holster. I will not keep a Glock with a loaded chamber inside a night stand drawer. I will the Sig, or any other gun with a safety or true 1st shot DA. And I'm not a big DA/SA fan. The new Sig is pretty close to the traditional 1911 as to function with a lot of modern improvements.

Another contender is the Smith M&P. Specifically the versions with a similar manual safety for all the above reasons.

 

[Terry G]

Well there's Combat and then there's Combat.. For Military style combat a rugged, easily maintained handgun is what your after. It should be easy to train someone on. The Colt 1911 had uncounted negligent discharges due a lack of training. (George Patton had one.) So training is a major issue. Combat on our city streets requires a handgun that has sufficient stopping power and ammunition capacity. The Glock excels in this as do S&W, Sig, Ruger, and CZ. A LEO is likely to receive much more training with a handgun than a Service Member because in a fight the handgun is usually all he has. If a Soldier or Marine has a rifle go bad he usually has teammates that take up the slack. It would be rare indeed to have to go to a handgun. In this kind of instance Grenades are your Friends.

 

[browningguy]

Well the US Army and Marines decided it was the Sig 320, that's good enough for me. A full size 320RX is my main carry gun, although my bedside pistol is a Xdm 5.25 Competition.