GoRon
Member
Springfield Professional if it makes the price cutoff. It is an accurate custom shop carry weapon. My TRP has been nearly flawless, I would have expectations that the Pro would be that much better.
If you are going to buy a 1911(under 2000)--which one is the most reliable?
- Thread starter Greg Bell
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Marshall
Member
If you're looking for a damn nice 1911 to actually shoot with, here's an adjustable sight model Springfield .45ACP in your price range. MSRP $1,899.00 NOTE: It does come with two other sets of very nice nice grips.
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 7 + 1
Barrel: 5" stainless steel throated match barrel and bushing, 1:16 LH
Sights: BoMar low mount adjustable rear sight. Dawson fiber optic front sight with certificate.
Sight Radius: 7"
Size: 38 ozs., 8.5" overall length
Trigger Pull: 4.5 to 5 lbs.
Magazines: 4-with Slam Pads
MSRP: $1,899.00
Specifications
Robar Industries Ltd. Bi-Tone Finish
Slide: Roguard Proprietary Black Finish
Frame: NP-3 Proprietary Nickel/Teflon Finish
Robar Industries Ltd. Lifetime Certificate of Authenticity
BoMar Low Mount Fully Adjustable Rear Sight
Dawson Fiber Optic Front Sight
National Match Lightweight Adjustable Speed Trigger
Flat Checkered (I.L.S.â„¢) Mainspring Housing
Springfield Armory® Wide Mouth Funneled Magwell
Machine Checkered Front Strap 20 LPI
Hammer Forged Match Quality Throated Barrel and Bushing
Titanium Firing Pin
Forged Frame and Slide
Carry Bevelâ„¢ Treatment
High-Handâ„¢ Beavertail Grip Safety
Ambidextrous Thumb Safety
2 Sets of Grips:
Leatham Legend Signature Laser Engraved
Thin Lined Cocobolo Smooth Wood
Black Macarta Double Diamond Grips
Torxâ„¢ Head Grip Screws
Delta Leightweight Hammer
National Match 2 Piece Full Length Stainless Steel Guide Rod
Loaded Chamber Indicator
Lifetime Warranty
Custom Aluminum Case
Double Serrated Slide
Unique Legend Series Markings and Serial Number
Certificate of Authenticity
Letter from Rob Leatham
Autographed Picture from Rob Leatham
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 7 + 1
Barrel: 5" stainless steel throated match barrel and bushing, 1:16 LH
Sights: BoMar low mount adjustable rear sight. Dawson fiber optic front sight with certificate.
Sight Radius: 7"
Size: 38 ozs., 8.5" overall length
Trigger Pull: 4.5 to 5 lbs.
Magazines: 4-with Slam Pads
MSRP: $1,899.00
Specifications
Robar Industries Ltd. Bi-Tone Finish
Slide: Roguard Proprietary Black Finish
Frame: NP-3 Proprietary Nickel/Teflon Finish
Robar Industries Ltd. Lifetime Certificate of Authenticity
BoMar Low Mount Fully Adjustable Rear Sight
Dawson Fiber Optic Front Sight
National Match Lightweight Adjustable Speed Trigger
Flat Checkered (I.L.S.â„¢) Mainspring Housing
Springfield Armory® Wide Mouth Funneled Magwell
Machine Checkered Front Strap 20 LPI
Hammer Forged Match Quality Throated Barrel and Bushing
Titanium Firing Pin
Forged Frame and Slide
Carry Bevelâ„¢ Treatment
High-Handâ„¢ Beavertail Grip Safety
Ambidextrous Thumb Safety
2 Sets of Grips:
Leatham Legend Signature Laser Engraved
Thin Lined Cocobolo Smooth Wood
Black Macarta Double Diamond Grips
Torxâ„¢ Head Grip Screws
Delta Leightweight Hammer
National Match 2 Piece Full Length Stainless Steel Guide Rod
Loaded Chamber Indicator
Lifetime Warranty
Custom Aluminum Case
Double Serrated Slide
Unique Legend Series Markings and Serial Number
Certificate of Authenticity
Letter from Rob Leatham
Autographed Picture from Rob Leatham
Jammer Six
member
I'm a reliability guy.
I'm not a believer in tight weapons. When the weapon is too tight, reliabilty suffers.
There will now be a general wailing and knashing of teeth from everyone who spent lots of money on a tight weapon.
I would get a weapon built to milspecs, not a tightened slide.
Les Baer, Wilson, Brown and Kimber are famous for super tight weapons, so I'll never own one.
I carry a Springfield loaded model, for exactly that reason. The Springfield milspec and the loaded model are both built to the same specs, tightness wise, and the TRP and up are tightend.
Have fun!
I'm not a believer in tight weapons. When the weapon is too tight, reliabilty suffers.
There will now be a general wailing and knashing of teeth from everyone who spent lots of money on a tight weapon.
I would get a weapon built to milspecs, not a tightened slide.
Les Baer, Wilson, Brown and Kimber are famous for super tight weapons, so I'll never own one.
I carry a Springfield loaded model, for exactly that reason. The Springfield milspec and the loaded model are both built to the same specs, tightness wise, and the TRP and up are tightend.
Have fun!
Waxed Canvas
Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2004
- Messages
- 104
One of my duck huntin' buds is an LEO and he totes a customized Colt Gold Cup. Seems Chip McCormick does allot of work for Texas LEO folks. Also seems more and more LEO folks are moving from Glocks and Sigs back to 1911's when they have an option. 'Feels good to me to look over at an officer on duty at a H.S. Football game or in the Mall and see a 1911 on their side fwiw.
http://www.chipmccormickcorp.com/merchant2/merchant.mv
http://www.chipmccormickcorp.com/merchant2/merchant.mv
Tamara
Senior Member
No, only a soft snickering.
(My Baer Concept III and Springer Pro have been far more reliable than, say, my basic Springfield Loaded.)
But, hey, if you want to believe old wive's tales, be my guest.
(PS: Maybe you should research the difference between a "tightened" gun and one that was built on an oversized "match" frame and slide...
)corruptone
Member
If it were my money I believe and I was absolutley going to spend every dime of it on this pistol then I would really only consider two pistols:
Ed Brown Kobra
or
Springfield Professional
Both may be streatching the $2K limit a little bit, but I would expect either to be 100% reliable and accurate. The Les Baer would be a close 3rd in my opinion as well. The STI Trojan is a nice pistol for sure (I own one), but I could buy two of them for $2K. It's just not exactly in the same league as the previous three. The Wilson's are nice as well. It's a tough call.
Ed Brown Kobra
or
Springfield Professional
Both may be streatching the $2K limit a little bit, but I would expect either to be 100% reliable and accurate. The Les Baer would be a close 3rd in my opinion as well. The STI Trojan is a nice pistol for sure (I own one), but I could buy two of them for $2K. It's just not exactly in the same league as the previous three. The Wilson's are nice as well. It's a tough call.
Pendragon
Member
A tighter pistol is much more consistent than a loose pistol.
With a loose gun, when it cycles and things "float", they action functions a little differently each time.
On a tighter gun, there is less play so you know that every part is operating in the same way (to a much higher degree) each cycle.
Perhaps tight is an inaccurate word.
The Valtro is extremely smooth because it is very well fitted. There is NO play in the slide to frame fit, or the bushings. It does not have the slightest rattle.
So if by tight, you mean an ill fitted gun that binds or sticks, then yes, that is probably not going to be as reliable.
But a well fitted 1911 is a thing of beauty and it is how the weapon was supposed to operate. If the "Mil-spec" weapons are "loose" they were probably shot loose - the old guns are much softer and need to be worked on more often.
With a loose gun, when it cycles and things "float", they action functions a little differently each time.
On a tighter gun, there is less play so you know that every part is operating in the same way (to a much higher degree) each cycle.
Perhaps tight is an inaccurate word.
The Valtro is extremely smooth because it is very well fitted. There is NO play in the slide to frame fit, or the bushings. It does not have the slightest rattle.
So if by tight, you mean an ill fitted gun that binds or sticks, then yes, that is probably not going to be as reliable.
But a well fitted 1911 is a thing of beauty and it is how the weapon was supposed to operate. If the "Mil-spec" weapons are "loose" they were probably shot loose - the old guns are much softer and need to be worked on more often.
If you want a reliable 1911, get one that's made to be so- not some super-tight, super accurate gun. My favorite 1911 was the result of buying a new Colt Series 70 over 20 years ago and sending it to Wilson for some Bo-Mar sights, a trigger job, and some cutting on the ejection port and mag well. Not a lot of work by today's standards. I then dropped in a Bar-Sto barrel & bushing. The result was a good and very reliable 1911 that I've been happily shooting ever since.
{Note: When it comes to "very reliable" 1911s, I must put in a further comment, since I've fired lots of ammo through a number of these guns, and have several friends who own 1911's, including some heavily custom gunsmithed models, and with whom I shoot regularly. The next paragraph is probably going to put some people off who are reading this thread. If so, DON'T read it, or at least DON'T tell me it's "off topic." I must assume, since reliability is the operative word in the initial post of this thread that "reliability" means "what I'm going to bet my life on," and so I'm inserting it anyway, because as much as I like my 1911, I stop short there.}
My final comments: If a $2,000 1911 is what you want, I'd buy the Wilson CQB:
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp
If you want to spend $600 instead of $2,000, and get what is ultimately a more reliable pistol, get a Glock 21:
http://www.glock.com/g21.htm
.... throw on a set of metal sights (I recommend the Meprolight night sights) and you're done.
{Note: When it comes to "very reliable" 1911s, I must put in a further comment, since I've fired lots of ammo through a number of these guns, and have several friends who own 1911's, including some heavily custom gunsmithed models, and with whom I shoot regularly. The next paragraph is probably going to put some people off who are reading this thread. If so, DON'T read it, or at least DON'T tell me it's "off topic." I must assume, since reliability is the operative word in the initial post of this thread that "reliability" means "what I'm going to bet my life on," and so I'm inserting it anyway, because as much as I like my 1911, I stop short there.}
My final comments: If a $2,000 1911 is what you want, I'd buy the Wilson CQB:
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp
If you want to spend $600 instead of $2,000, and get what is ultimately a more reliable pistol, get a Glock 21:
http://www.glock.com/g21.htm
.... throw on a set of metal sights (I recommend the Meprolight night sights) and you're done.
G-21?
No, I already have a plastic 45 (USP compact). Plus, I prefer C&L over "safe" action. Not to mention my hands are nowhere near big enough to get comfortable with that grip. The 1911 grip is just about perfect, and I can get a short trigger to round out the package.
No, I already have a plastic 45 (USP compact). Plus, I prefer C&L over "safe" action. Not to mention my hands are nowhere near big enough to get comfortable with that grip. The 1911 grip is just about perfect, and I can get a short trigger to round out the package.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
No, we just know that you are wrong.
Lots of things go into reliability. Slide-frame clearances are only part of the puzzle, and their effect is not unambiguously pro- or anti-reliability unelss taken to comical extremes.
Read closer. I recommended the SA Pro, a $1,500ish RRA gun, and a pistolsmith custom job. I'm more than happy to spend his money.
cratz2
Member
I posted my previous reply before reading any other responses... I will now slightly re-word my reply.
Two of the biggest things in my opinion that go into making a reliable 1911 reliable are good ammo and good magazines with strong springs. Stick with Winchester, S&B or Georgia Arms 230 Gr FMJ ammo and you're a step ahead in the reliability department. Once you've figured out and are convinced that the 1911 you've purchased is reliable, make the steps towards selecting an HP carry ammo that is reliable and has your desired terminal effect. If you try two or three 165 or 185 Gr loads and find them to be less than 100% reliable, don't think it's the fault of the gun.
As for the super tight guns go... the tighest in general I've seen are the Baers with the accuracy guarantee. I remember one particular example I saw at a shop in Lousiville that was so tight, I had to concentrate on keeping the slide and frame as perpendicular as possible to get the slide to slide at all. It was REALLY tight. I've handled and shot several Browns, Wilsons, Rock Rivers etc... If I was going to utmost reliability, I'd go for one of the specifically combat oriented guns, not bullseye guns or anything like that. It would have fixed sights and I would want some minimal amount of play between the slide and frame with the hammer back. Many Browns are like this as is the TRS.
Also keep in mind that most of these guns are supposed to be broken in with 500 rounds of firing. So if that is in the manaul, it should be ovserved and failures before than 500th round should not be counted against the gun much as firing lead reloads in a Glock are not the fault of the design, but rather the shooter.
I'd probably still suggest a Brown Kobra or the Springfield Professional. But the Rock Rivers are such a good deal that if you have the 14 months to wait (or whatever the wait time is up to now), I think they are the best buy if not neccessarily the 'best'.
Two of the biggest things in my opinion that go into making a reliable 1911 reliable are good ammo and good magazines with strong springs. Stick with Winchester, S&B or Georgia Arms 230 Gr FMJ ammo and you're a step ahead in the reliability department. Once you've figured out and are convinced that the 1911 you've purchased is reliable, make the steps towards selecting an HP carry ammo that is reliable and has your desired terminal effect. If you try two or three 165 or 185 Gr loads and find them to be less than 100% reliable, don't think it's the fault of the gun.
As for the super tight guns go... the tighest in general I've seen are the Baers with the accuracy guarantee. I remember one particular example I saw at a shop in Lousiville that was so tight, I had to concentrate on keeping the slide and frame as perpendicular as possible to get the slide to slide at all. It was REALLY tight. I've handled and shot several Browns, Wilsons, Rock Rivers etc... If I was going to utmost reliability, I'd go for one of the specifically combat oriented guns, not bullseye guns or anything like that. It would have fixed sights and I would want some minimal amount of play between the slide and frame with the hammer back. Many Browns are like this as is the TRS.
Also keep in mind that most of these guns are supposed to be broken in with 500 rounds of firing. So if that is in the manaul, it should be ovserved and failures before than 500th round should not be counted against the gun much as firing lead reloads in a Glock are not the fault of the design, but rather the shooter.
I'd probably still suggest a Brown Kobra or the Springfield Professional. But the Rock Rivers are such a good deal that if you have the 14 months to wait (or whatever the wait time is up to now), I think they are the best buy if not neccessarily the 'best'.
Sean Smith
Member
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- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
6 months is the lead time for RRA orders now (more like 8 for Black-T finished guns).
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69703&highlight=RRA+time
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