If you don't carry......start.

[Bernie Lomax]

To play devils advocate, not all CCW classes teach you the ins and outs of concealed carry and the associated laws. My class simply had a guy give me a website where all the FL gun laws were present, said I was responsible for knowing all of them, then had me fire 15 rounds into a target at 15 feet and signed the form I needed to show the Dept of agriculture. Fortunately in my case, I took it upon myself to research all laws, and do all necessary research and "Temperance Training" I cannot say the same for all the others there.

Department of Agriculture? *** is the Florida Department of Agriculture in charge of gun permits?

 

[JoeSlomo]

Am I the only one that thinks this might be more of an SA issue that an "I need a gun" issue?

No.

Not at all.

While hindsight is indeed 20/20, I feel this incident is an extremely important learning point for the OP.

Situational awareness is absolutely crucial in everyday life, and just as it helps an aware driver avoid an accident on the road ways, it can help you avoid or anticipate a potential defensive incident out in public.

I encourage the OP to obtain his CHL, however, I also encourage the OP to research, or seek training, in techniques to enhance his situational awareness.

 

[okespe04]

I was in a situation like that a few months ago. A very aggressive ex-con looking pan handler in what looked to be a drugged out frenzy was approaching people asking for money. He seemed to be getting more and more angry as people were turning him down, as I was getting in my van he came towards me half yelling to give him a dollar. I managed to get in the van and close the door before he got near me. He came right up to the drivers side window all in a huff and was fidgeting around rocking back and fourth. I discretely drew my pistol with my right hand and held it out of sight while I shook my head at him, he sat there for a second red faced and angry and finally walked off. I figured if he tried to smash in the window I would have dove in the back of the van and readied myself, maybe even exit the van via the sliding door while I kept the gun between myself and the threat while he got the point. A tactical retreat would be much better than using deadly force. Ultimately nothing happened I holstered my weapon and went on my way. I was glad I had a gun. The guy was like 300lbs, built like a tank, and his prison tattoos indicated what he had been up to and why he was panhandling. Hard to get a job with a couple of felonies under your belt.

 

[David E]

Last year at about this time, I was unlocking the gate to the gunclub. It's fairly rural and the road it's on leads to a dead-end. A car drove by and the driver gave me a "look" that's hard to describe, but I decided to unlock the gate while facing the road instead of having my back to it as a result. Did I mention it was rural? Like, waaaayyy out in the sticks?

A few seconds later, he came back and parked his car behind mine. I'd just unlocked the gate and was 10 feet from my car door, which was in his direction.

He got out of his car and began to approach while talking about how his uncle is a member, that he's a cop and could he shoot there. I told him he needed his uncle present, etc. His passenger did not exit the car.

He didn't like my answers, but got back in his car and left. A short while later, a farmer who lives close by asked if we'd seen or heard anything, as his horse had been shot.

Long story short, the character that had confronted me shot his horse as payback for something and was arrested. The investigating officer told me that this person was armed AND was wearing a bullet proof vest at the time he spoke to me.

Now, I don't know what his intent was with me, if anything, but being 10 feet away from my car would've sucked if that's where my gun was and I needed it quickly.

 

[mcdonl]

I encourage the OP to obtain his CHL, however, I also encourage the OP to research, or seek training, in techniques to enhance his situational awareness.

This is fun, and can be self taught in most cases. I (And now my wife and kids...) are in the habit of A) identifying escape routes (Be it exits, or pathways....) and B) "Who can take me" in the immediate vicinity. I realize physical size and agility are not equal to defense of against a gun or a knife, but it helps to have an assessment as a 250 athletic man can pose a problem for you to GET to your gun.

By doing these two things we can get out safely in the event of a shooting, fire, etc... and know if we should even consider physical confrontation with a BG... even as a last resort. (So, in this simple little game we play we avoid, plan our escape if possible and asses any threat we cannot get away from.....)

Also, I apply a concept taught at the National Motorcycle Safety Foundation called SIPDE:

Scan (Look around, like I do looking for exits, cover/concealment, threats....)
Identify (What are the possible threats.... Little old ladies, 20 something men talking to themselves in rage, etc....)
Predict (What could happen? Little old lady could hit you with a cane, 20 something man seems unstable and could attack....)
Determine (Is the little old lady really harmless, is the man storming out of your path, or is he reaching in his pocket for a weapon...)
Execute (If grammy goes about her business, but you feel the 20 something man is reaching for a gun execute your plan for that situation... you would have already done everything you could to avoid known danger areas, you should have already planned an escape route and you have given the scene enough attention so that you can execute your plan as needed.)

You can see how this was geared to motorcycle riding but the concept is the same. Plan for, identify and avoid threats.

Obviously I am not a self defense expert, but I have learned enough through my CCW class, other NRA classes and general SA to stay safer than the average joe....

(EDIT: Also, shoot your gun. As often as you need to in order to be proficient, and do it from different distances and positions. Read THIS thread for drills.....)

 

[ForumSurfer]

Who can take me" in the immediate vicinity. I realize physical size and agility are not equal to defense of against a gun or a knife, but it helps to have an assessment as a 250 athletic man can pose a problem for you to GET to your gun.

I find a flaw in that. Assume everyone can take you and figure out how to avoid a physical altercation.. Identifying threats and people's demeanor is one thing...but don't assume their physical ability. I have a good friend who is in his 40's and looks wire thin (140-150 pounds). Very non-threatening. But he's heavily involved in MMA and is much stronger than he looks, as I found out when we had a workout session and he benched north of 190. People like that aren't ll that rare. I routinely make "threat assessments" of people that I find acting unusual in my presence, but I don't wonder for a second if I can take him or not...I wonder how to avoid the taking.

 

[mcdonl]

I think I pointed out avoid/escape a few times. But, I still like to know my perception of the physical abilities of the people around me.

Good points though.

 

[xXxplosive]

We discussed it here many many times............trouble doesn't make an appointment.
You never know from one minute to the next.......lucky there, it didn't get out of control.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Department of Agriculture? *** is the Florida Department of Agriculture in charge of gun permits?

Because our Department of Agriculture has a Department of licensing.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Department of Agriculture? *** is the Florida Department of Agriculture in charge of gun permits?

Because our Department of Agriculture has a Department of licensing.

How does that work? Does the DoA do the background checks?

 

[Sevenfaces]

I'll see your carry and raise you one "Get your CCW, even if you don't want to carry a gun."
not only will it (in some states) let you carry other concealed "Weapons" it also might possibly show up when a cop runs your name, and possibly display what a upstanding citizen you are. (of course the opposite could happen too.)

I was in a situation like that a few months ago. A very aggressive ex-con looking pan handler in what looked to be a drugged out frenzy was approaching people asking for money. He seemed to be getting more and more angry as people were turning him down, as I was getting in my van he came towards me half yelling to give him a dollar. I managed to get in the van and close the door before he got near me. He came right up to the drivers side window all in a huff and was fidgeting around rocking back and fourth. I discretely drew my pistol with my right hand and held it out of sight while I shook my head at him, he sat there for a second red faced and angry and finally walked off. I figured if he tried to smash in the window I would have dove in the back of the van and readied myself, maybe even exit the van via the sliding door while I kept the gun between myself and the threat while he got the point. A tactical retreat would be much better than using deadly force. Ultimately nothing happened I holstered my weapon and went on my way. I was glad I had a gun. The guy was like 300lbs, built like a tank, and his prison tattoos indicated what he had been up to and why he was panhandling. Hard to get a job with a couple of felonies under your belt.

I don't think that someone having a bad day and bad tattoos warrants you to draw your gun. Don't get me wrong, I can see where you stand, but I can't say I would behave in the same manner. I was in a similar situation getting gas at night once, with a self admitted "Just out of jail" guy, who clocked in at maybe 150lbs who just asked if I had any change, I said I would check my truck's cubby, Of course I only had a pocket knife on me, and I was watching him and what looked like his accomplice on the otherside of my truck, I found maybe 70 cents and handed it to him, told him to stay out of jail, kept watching him and then when I was done fueling up, I left. I suppose if they bum rushed me I would have fought back, but during the whole scenario I never once acted like I was afraid of them, or like I suspected them of scheming, which I am certain they were doing.

my point is that thinking, confidence, and respect can get you out of a lot more sticky situations than "I grabbed my gun, in preparation for a fight" attitudes will.

How does that work? Does the DoA do the background checks?

exactly. They require any proof of prior convictions, which I provided. It just so happened that my case was not one which prohibits one from owning firearms, which is pretty much the same requirement to have a CCW.

 

[okespe04]

I don't think that someone having a bad day and bad tattoos warrants you to draw your gun. Don't get me wrong, I can see where you stand, but I can't say I would behave in the same manner.

I would not really say "I drew my gun" more like I moved it from my holster to my hand and kept it down below my seat I (I have an Astro Van with one of those high seats so that can be done very inconspicuously) much like I have done many times even when not being threatened at all like to do a brass check and re-holster. Nobody had any idea I had taken my gun out including the drugged out 300 lb Ex-con. I live in a town with a lot of vagrants and the confidence card works 99.9999% of the time. This guy was different, the last two people he had approached were obviously scared of him as he was being very aggressive, literally pounding on previous persons driver side window as they drove away. I saw the look on the drivers face, he was scared. As I said in the first post he was becoming more and more aggressive. I also forgot to mention he was doing this in a Bank Of America parking lot to people who were going in and out of the bank. I feel I acted 100% appropriately and would do the exact same thing again. The difference between an aggressive ex-con having a bad day and an aggressive ex-con acting out violently towards somebody could be about .5 seconds.

 

[invisiblem0nst3r]

unless you were in arizona where it is legal to brandish your firearm

 

[Franco2shoot]

I always find these threads interesting. I keep vassilating between "Get the CCA" and Don't get the CCA. Here's my rationale for each. Remember, I live in Northern Virginia.

Ok first the for's:
1. Better to have and not need, than to Need and not have.
2. Never tell when one's gonna find themselves at a Dark Gas station late at nite.
3. Concealed is better than Open carry, even tho Open is allowed in Va. Open scares people

There are probably some more, feel free to put them in any response. Here's the against or why not to get the CCW license:

1. I don't find myself in dangerous places.
2. The local Sheriff doesn't have me on his list, or any other Govmt list for that matter.
3. I can Open Carry in the car if Car Jacking is my concern, again why get the CCA?
4. Its not going to help on cross state journeys

From the threads I've read, the biggest threat that people encounter is late nite at a Gas station in a remote location. Folks don't report encounters in the Mall, at the Bank, or going to the grocery store. Every day life is not the likely encounter with a BG. Ner-do-wells asking for money, like the situation described by the OP don't really provide a reason for "life or death" paranoia. This is not to say that personally, had I had the encounter, I wouldn't have liked to have the option to pull back a jacket enough to expose a 1911 and just say Shooo.... (which again has me thinking of getting the CCA license)

So I'm looking for THR members to convince me...


KKKKFL

 

[JDoe]

From the threads I've read, the biggest threat that people encounter is late nite at a Gas station in a remote location. Folks don't report encounters in the Mall, at the Bank, or going to the grocery store. Every day life is not the likely encounter with a BG. Ner-do-wells asking for money, like the situation described by the OP don't really provide a reason for "life or death" paranoia. This is not to say that personally, had I had the encounter, I wouldn't have liked to have the option to pull back a jacket enough to expose a 1911 and just say Shooo.... (which again has me thinking of getting the CCA license)

So I'm looking for THR members to convince me...

Bad stuff happens everywhere even banks, malls, schools, churches and grocery stores.

Like Lee Lapin says, "it isn't the odds that matter- it's the stakes."

 

[ejnogarb]

I think the OP is justified in his intentions. If the other car hadn't pulled up, the man might have attacked him. If the man had a knife, the OP could have been stabbed and murdered. My brother-in-law taught at a well-known firearms training institute, and one of the situations they practice involves a man suddenly rushing at a person trying to get into a car. The point of the exercise was to demonstrate how quickly a suspicious-looking person can cover ground and attack you. Usually, it's before the defender has a chance to grab their weapon even if it's on their person. It's better to have your hand on a weapon and be safe than worry about escalating an already threatening situation. If you feel threatened, you can pull your gun. Have it out before you absolutely need it, or you probably won't have time.

 

[Sevenfaces]

To be fair, I suppose I could conjecture all day about how to handle that situation, but until I am in it, I'll never really know.

 

[gunzee]

This is a good reason to favor the front pants pocket carry. Given a good holster, you can have your hand on the gun, and nobody knows. That means that you can (with practice) react to a signal, draw and reliably hit the chest at 10 ft, in .75 second. That, along with some fitness and martial arts training, will put you way out in front.

 

[DMK]

A similar situation prompted me to get a CCL. Luckily for me, it did not happen to me, but a classmate who refused to give some random lowlife a ride at the local Walmart parking lot. The guy stabbed him, quite seriously. At the time, I did not carry because we live in a quiet rural area, but it sure struck home that you just never know.

 

[Gouranga]

I would say:
1. you are right get your CCW and carry whenever legal.
2. Consider the full spectrum of force for defense. I carry my 40 as often as I can. I also carry OC spray and learned at least basic hand to hand techniques.

If he wee to escalate the situation, if you got out of it with OC spray before needing to use lethal force, that is a win in my book. While you should not afraid to use lethal force when necessary, it is always good if you have the ability to end a threat before it is a lethal threat.

Also OC spray you can take most everywhere.