If you feel like you need to carry a gun in order to go there...don't go there.

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The Real Hawkeye

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Ever hear this one before? It's is a faulty formulation, in my opinion, because, if followed, you get some very odd, and untenable, results. For example, according to this slogan, you shouldn't go out to check on your horses late at night since you'd feel less safe doing so unarmed. I don't think many of us agree with that statement, right? So I think it's time we put this tired old slogan to rest. Opinions?
 
My response:

I need a gun to defend my home, and country. Should I abandon both?
 
If you think you might get into a car accident, don't drive. Same faulty logic as most anti arguments.


You have no control over other peoples' actions. Your statement (not yours I know) may have some validity to someone who does not normally carry, but wants a gun to walk the dog down Shinbone Alley just for the fun of it.
 
The term “situational awareness” is sometimes used to describe an attitude used to avoid trouble and/or confrontation. If I can possibly avoid it I don’t go into places or situations where there is a high risk or probability of trouble. On the other hand this isn’t the sort of thing that’s always predictable. That’s why self-protection sometimes becomes a necessity.

I suggest that someone who thinks otherwise take an after-midnight walk through New York City’s Central Park – unarmed of course… :evil:
 
Hold

Just to clarify a bit....

Hawkeye started this as a response to another thread in which I made that statement. The argument that one has the right to go where he or she pleases is valid and one that I agree with. The point was not to stay home to stay out of trouble, but rather to use your judgement before entering into an area that you can, in all likihood, expect to have trouble.

Would you arm yourself and walk into the worst area of town after dark on a Friday night, just because you have the right to be there? No? Yes? It's a matter of choice. Have to go? Arm yourself and go. Don't have to go? Why go? That simple.

Anaolgies comparing driving cars and taking a walk around the block in your neighborhood to going into a drinkhouse down in 11th Street Bottom
just because you can are patently absurd. You know the difference. I know the difference.
 
Circular logic. We have no way of knowing what is going to happen to us, so the best we can to is try to be prepared.

You should carry everywhere you go and not discriminate based on physical locations.
 
Agree with Hawkeye, but . . .

I believe the admonition:
Don't do anywhere you wouldn't normally go, just because you have a gun.
Click to expand...

If I wouldn't normally go down to the corner of 5th and Memphis, because that's where trouble likes to hang out, then I wouldn't go there (given a choice) just because I'm now armed.

If the reason I need to be armed is that the places I must normally go are kinda marginal, then I still go there; I just make sure I'm armed.
 
Ok, here's one for you.

I live out in the (pseudo) country. My friend lives in a small city about fifteen minutes away. I very frequently (once a week, sometimes more) go over to his house and hang out. It is our custom to go walking throughout the downtown area of the city, sometimes for several miles. While we do not go into the "ghetto" part of town, the region we walk through has small pockets of lower income housing, because the total roaming area is several square miles. In general, 19 times out of 20 we either do not see, or do not pass closer to a hundred yards of anyone who seems suspicious or a potential threat. But, every once in a long while, we run into situations that leave me feeling uncomfortable for being unarmed in accordance with the law.

Going by the standards mentioned above, is it an area I would go into unarmed? Obviously the answer is yes. But is it necessarily safe in the first place? I'd argue that there's no place that is completely safe-every environment falls somewhere on a security spectrum, and in addition that spectrum isn't always immediately obvious. The real question is "What is each person's level of safety?" such that they feel reasonably comfortable unarmed in that situation. The catch with that is that each person has a unique and differing understanding and knowledge of dangers, and so thus they may or may not be unreasonably biased one way or another in determining what is safe.

I continually think upon the concept of situational awareness, and "trust no one" in regards to personal security, but I still find myself on rare occasion in a situation where I'm at risk, and don't know what I should have done differently. It seems to me like the real threat is from the completely unexpected: things you never imagined happening, and thus had no mental preparation for. Two or three times I've had something happen to me that I had absolutely no anticipation or forewarning of, that simply made no remote sense. The mind is continually expecting certain signs of danger, and trying to re-tune myself to include a greater variety of warning signs is tough.
 
I was walking through DC last night...

...and my friends told me I was nuts. "Why am I nuts" I asked.
"because it's dangerous" Is the response.
I HATE this attitude. Neighborhood not so nice? TAKE IT BACK.
I will NEVER fear walking in the capital city of the greatrest country in the world, and neither should you, any of you. In fact, I think we should all go out late at night in "bad" areas every night, together. I am willing to bet the "bad" areas get a whole lot batter when decent people start becoming a normal sighting after dark.
Don't think your home is safe? Make it safe. Don't think your home TOWN is safe? TAKE IT BACK, it's yours, isn't it?
Trust me, the criminal element doesn't want to operate with all of you nice people capering over hill and dale willy-nilly, and will find someplace else to do their business. John Q Public has a cell phone on him these days, and very often, a gun, and friends with guns.
Steve.
 
1911Tuner banning TheRealHawkeye

Just wondering why the Real Hawkeye was banned after post this. Was this the reason. I know he was banned because he's a personal friend of mine.
 
Doesn't make much sense

"I'm no different than anybody else, and subject to the same rules of engagement..."

How could you say that when you infact did ban him? And no, i'm not him and you can check if you'd like.
 
Fear

Quote:

>Let the criminals, I say, live in fear of us.<
**********

Please don't confuse fear with good judgement. When it comes to shooting someone, it's better to avoid rather than to confront or provoke...because if you shoot, you'll be charged. You'll have to spend thousands of dollars trying to prove that you were justified...and if it's shown that you just went there
for the hell of it, rather than because you had business there...it's not gonna be easy to make a case for justifiable homicide or grievous wounding of your fellow man. A sharp prosecutor could even make it look like you strapped on your shootin' iron and went lookin' for trouble.

I'll say it once more. If you feel like you need a gun in order to go there...don't go there. If you go there and have to shoot someone, you'll wish a thousand times that you hadn't gone there before the smoke clears. Don't ask me how I know.
 
I agree with it.

The best fight is the fight avoided. Avoid going stupid places and carry everywhere you go.
 
are you serious?

:fire: If i end up shooting some criminal in a dangerous place defending myself late at night, i've done society good, and will be commended for that. And no, I wouldn't have to worry about paying for my trial and defense because it would all be payed for by my supporters if it even went as far as that. The only thing I'd be worry about after I shot the guy in self defense is if i would get my gun back from the evidence room:banghead: ....Or should we all hide behind locked doors since there are bad guys out there?:fire:
 
I was walking through DC last night...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...and my friends told me I was nuts. "Why am I nuts" I asked.
"because it's dangerous" Is the response.
I HATE this attitude. Neighborhood not so nice? TAKE IT BACK.
I will NEVER fear walking in the capital city of the greatrest country in the world, and neither should you, any of you. In fact, I think we should all go out late at night in "bad" areas every night, together. I am willing to bet the "bad" areas get a whole lot batter when decent people start becoming a normal sighting after dark.
Don't think your home is safe? Make it safe. Don't think your home TOWN is safe? TAKE IT BACK, it's yours, isn't it?
Trust me, the criminal element doesn't want to operate with all of you nice people capering over hill and dale willy-nilly, and will find someplace else to do their business. John Q Public has a cell phone on him these days, and very often, a gun, and friends with guns.
Steve.
Click to expand...
Do you even remember early last Summer when those tourists, the famous journalist and those other people in the nice neighborhoods and the National Mall in DC were killed? I sure as hell do. The one place at night that was thought to be safe and had plenty of upstanding people walking around or jogging at night was now a hunting ground for the violent muggers and rapists.

I live in Bowie and if you know Bowie it is one of the lowest crime areas of PG county (PG borders DC). We have had many muggings of people walking their dog or jogging because the criminals (they coaught) said they came out here to "rob the rich folk". (like how many peoole are going to carry a wallet when jogging or walking their dog in their own neighborhood? Crooks are idiots).
 
If you feel like you need to carry a gun in order to go there...don't go there.
Click to expand...
What I often say to that is that the crime in my area is rampant and unless I stay in my own neighborhood which is an island in a sea of crime by comparison, then I am wary.
Even in my neighborhood, it seems the crime comes to us, so even here it is not too safe.
Anyone who uses that argument does not live in my part of Maryland in other words.
 
Like any other law-abiding citizen, I do my darndest to avoid trouble. That means avoiding known or potential "trouble" areas when at all possible!

On the other hand, while you're practically asking for trouble while heading to some areas.....

Only a fool or a bona-fide "precog" could say with 100% certianty that s/he would not need a gun where s/he is going!

Even if it's just a walk to the mailbox in the morning...heck, just a walk from your bedroom to the kitchen! :what:

Crap happens. Live accordingly. IE, "be prepared."
 
re:

Sierramistbush wrote:

>If i end up shooting some criminal in a dangerous place defending myself late at night, i've done society good, and will be commended for that. And no, I wouldn't have to worry about paying for my trial and defense because it would all be payed for by my supporters if it even went as far as that.<
************

Do you honestly believe that? You think that the mayor will pin a good citizenship medal on your chest and thank you for a job well done?
Lad...you're in serious need of a reality check.

Novus...If you live in "that place" or have to pass through "that place" on your way to work or to the bank or to buy groceries...that qualifies as
one of those places that you need to go or be. It's about choice. If you have no choice, you have no choice. Carry your gun and fight like a cornered tiger if you must. If you have a choice and make the wrong one, you've made a tactical blunder. Be prepared to take whatever comes your way.
 
More Quotes:

Green Lantern said:

>Like any other law-abiding citizen, I do my darndest to avoid trouble. That means avoiding known or potential "trouble" areas when at all possible!

On the other hand, while you're practically asking for trouble while heading to some areas.....

Only a fool or a bona-fide "precog" could say with 100% certianty that s/he would not need a gun where s/he is going!

Even if it's just a walk to the mailbox in the morning...heck, just a walk from your bedroom to the kitchen!<
*************

My point exactly. I have a pistol on me every waking hour. At home...in the yard...walking the 100 yards to the mailbox. I avoid known trouble spots like there was a cootie outbreak. Life is much simpler when you're not in the hospital...if you lose the fight (And it can happen) MUCH better if you're alive, in case you lose really bad...or losing sleep trying to plot a viable defense strategy to keep from having to share a cell with Mongo the Beast. I have better things to spend my money on than lawyers, and I've known a few who shared a cell with Mongo. Not pretty.
 
This one is rapidly degenerating in to a p*****g match. And if in fact a mod did ban some one because the mod didn't like what that person said or felt that person should not post threads on specific subjects than this really isn't a very high road after all.
 
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