If you HAD both, which would you carry? 642 or PF-9?

[CoRoMo]

I vote for the PF9. I carry a P11 and it is 100% reliable. I don't own either of the others, but my mother packs the 642, so I've shot one plenty.

If I owned both, and the PF9 was as reliable as the P11 that I do own and carry, I'd go with it as the primary and carry the 642 on occasion.

 

[dom1104]

wait, are you seriously telling me you have to think twice between this

and this?

Your chances of ever needing a ccw firearm is exceedingly small. Your chances of admiring the workmanship and quality of your gun is high.

Go with a gun thats actually worthy of the name.

Dont buy some cheap plastic throwaway that looks like its made out of ........ dont get me started.


"DONT BUY CHEAP GUNS" should be a bumper sticker.

 

[tbone3]

Yeah, I guess you shouldn't buy an AK either because those things look like a$$ and I bet they don't hold up in the long haul. . . wait

 

[Yo Mama]

9mm from a tiny barrel isn't as hot as you think.

You only lose about 50 fps with each inch lost. A 125 grain projectile going 1000 fps is nothing to sneeze at.

Go with a gun thats actually worthy of the name.

Dont buy some cheap plastic throwaway that looks like its made out of ........ dont get me started.

Well now. Let's get started then. I find your comments really lacking in personal experience. Let's start by your problems with a pf9. See I've had one for a few years now, and what do you know, no problems.

It's fine if you have a preference, but to call it a cheap plastic throwaway is wrong. Are Glocks in the same boat?

 

[dom1104]

Kel tecs, are IMHO one step above Hi-Points. Its a big step, but save up for a few months and buy something quality, they are a cheap gun. With a middling reliability history. Not something I would own, unlike the glock which has a good reliability history. I also think the glock is a mass produced pistol with no charecter, certainly not a heirloom, pass down to your kids kind of gun.

What I am saying is, certain guns have beauty and pride of ownership, and for me, a Keltec is one step above a junk gun. and thats obvious just handling one and with cursory dissasembly.

Comparing a Kel Tec to a Smith on the basis of QUALITY is a battle the Smith will win.

I am not going to fight about it, and this is my final post on the matter, but I would encourage you to look at guns from a perspective other than "tacticalness" or "this one is .010 thinner and holds 1 more round" and also appreciate the fact that its an item that will last generations and can be something really really rewarding to own. Not just a means to a self defence end.

 

[MikePaiN]

dom1104....my thinking is opposite of yours. I specifically wanted an inexpensive CCW. I did not care how pretty it was or even so much what it looked like, I wanted a 9mm Luger(or above) that was tough, concealable and went bang every time I squeezed the trigger. All at price that would make me "not worry over" the pistol all that much. The PF9 fit the bill perfectly.
Over the year and a half I've carried the PF9 now it has been through everything, dropped, banged around, hot, cold, sweat, dust, dirt and rain. This $300 gun still does its job each and every time, in fact there's not hardly even finish wear(mine's parkerized). IMO, spending more on something else would have been a waste.

 

[rhinoh]

I'm all for a cheap gun, lets face it, there are times it must be left in the car for most of us. If my PF9 is stolen it hurts way less than one of my Walthers or Sigs or even my S&W snubbie.

 

[Dogbite]

642, hands down. It is always going to go bang! I carry a 638, and have for years. It is an excellent carry gun, and great in close quarters as well.

 

[Zerodefect]

I'd pick the blue 442 over the 642. Seems some have had issues with the finish on the 642? The 442's seem priced cheaper in my area as well.

But for me: I'd want better XS sights, ION Bond/Tenifer/Melonite for finish, and the ability to use .357 magnum rounds. That would be the M&P 340.

I don't really care to stare at my CCW's too long. Any gun's going to look haggard after a year or two of carry abuse.

9mm compares favorably to .38, but is nothing compared to .357. So long as you can keep the revolver from denting your forehead during recoil.

I'm not too certain about the revolvers reliability. There's plenty that can jam them up as well. Less likely maybe, but I'd rather toss a PM9 down 2 flights of stairs than a J-frame.

 

[bhp9mm]

the 642

 

[scottishclaymore]

Honestly I'd carry both if I owned both of them. New York reloads are a good idea.

If I only had to pick one and cost isn't an issue? The 642. And a pair of Safariland speedloaders. I don't even have to think about that one.

 

[MCgunner]

I like both

Well, okay, I don't have a 642, but I do have a Taurus M85SSUL that I pocket carry. And, okay, I don't have a PF9, but I do have a P11 that I pocket carry. I alternate between them, but find myself carrying the 9 probably 70 percent. Both have advantages and disadvantages and, well, I can never make my mind up and I've always been more of a revolver guy, but the little auto is so perfect for the chore.

One thing, I do like the stainless gun for carry in summer. I got the thing wet just yesterday while fishing, salt water, too. Just cleaned it up when I got home, no damage even though it was submersed. Was unintentional, but it happened. My P11's finish is pretty worn just from 13 years in sweaty pockets. But, I like it a lot. I will NOT sell either gun. They shoot great.

The 642 is a fine weapon and the PF9 is, too. Me, I'd get both.

Dont buy some cheap plastic throwaway that looks like its made out of ........ dont get me started.

Clueless.

If I only had to pick one and cost isn't an issue? The 642. And a pair of Safariland speedloaders. I don't even have to think about that one.

Long as it ain't a comp 1. I haven't tried the 2 or 3, but the comp one is crap. I'm back to HKS, myself.

 

[iblong]

Thats a personal preference thing have shot both a lot and would prefer the j frame over the PF9,Ive never had any problems with my pf9.I just like j frames better and I just shoot them better,they carry better for me also
Bob.

 

[hardluk1]

If your s&w has ten years on it then carry it . If its new? I see more about revolvers going back for repair in the last couple years than i ever remember read'n about in the past. Two many built to fast with out the control they once had. I have a taurus thats around 15 years old and is solid, never a problem. I have a charterarms ultra lite that after only several hundred rounds is reliable,no porblems. It rides on my ankle. I also have a pf-9 that i have put several hundred different weight practice round through with no problems ,It did show a dislike for Gold dots and a like for hornady critical defence 115gr. Several hundred rounds of that have been shot down range all with some kind of rapid fire,double taps ,limpwristed it. Just goes bang. Pick the one one YOU like YOU have to live with it . The one you can draw and hit your with best is the one you should carry.

 

[bigmike45]

I carry a PF9 daily....why??? Because it has been reliable in over 500 rounds of 124gr Hydrashoks, accurate to a flaw, and extremely easy to carry. If I were going to carry a revolver, it would be my DAO Ruger SP-101 in .357mag. Yeah I know...it's not one of those listed but it is one of my favorite guns and like the Kel-Tec PF9...has never missed a beat.

bigmike45

 

[MICHAEL T]

American Rifleman Aug 09 posted test of Ruger LCR These numbers aren't very impressive
BlackHills 125gr +P 916FPS and 233 ftlbs
Hornady 110gr JHP 903FPS and 199 ftlbs
Federal 130gr FMJ 763FPS and 168ftlbs
Just for kicks
Corbon 90grHP from a 380KelTec did 950FPS and 181ftlbs
I would take the 9mm It will do better than any of the above.
I long ago parked my J frame

 

[MR.G]

Been bouncing back and forth for a couple of years between a S&W J frame and a Kel Tec for concealed carry. The only difference is that my 9MM Kel Tec is a P-11. Both are good for front pocket carry, with the right holster. The Kel Tec with the original magazine holds more rounds than the J frame, and a reload is faster. Also will accept S&W 15 round magazines, for over three times the capacity of the J frame. Never have had a reliability problem with a S&W J frame, and I have owned and shot quite a few of them. My KT P-11 has been fired at least 400 rounds without a failure. At seven yards I shoot them both about the same. The only reason that the Kel Tec isn't my only concealed carry gun is that I don't have complete confidence in it. Mine has been completely reliable, but I have read too many posts from people that have had trigger bar springs pop off and triggers break. For that reason I carry a S&W J frame more than the KT. If I could have only one, it would be a S&W J frame.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Mr. G, I also have a Model 60 J-Frame and a P-11. I find it impossible to pocket carry the P-11. It is just to blocky and uncomfortable in a front pocket. I also find it more difficult to draw from a pocket. I'm using a Desantis Nemesis. What holster are you using?

I shoot the P-11 well, and it' been pretty reliable, but with a J-Frame and a Kel-Tec side by side, the Kel-Tec doesn't seem like a serious self defense weapon. I'll keep the Kel-Tec, but I've pretty much decided to get an M&P 340, for everyday front pocket carry.

 

[MR.G]

JoeShmoe, I use either a Mikas or Uncle Mikes pocket holster for both the
P-11 and J frame. Both work well, but I don't wear tight fitting clothes.

 

[MCgunner]

Clothes are everything, big pockets. I mostly wear carpenter's jeans. I don't do "slacks" and other pansy stuff city boys do. I'm retired and work for myself in my own shop now. I do have a part time job delivering papers to machines, 2 times a week, and wear what I want. I have multi hundreds of dollars on me on Tuesdays, collection day, so I carry, but I have to bend over at the machines to load 'em, so I don't like IWB and a T shirt.

American Rifleman Aug 09 posted test of Ruger LCR These numbers aren't very impressive
BlackHills 125gr +P 916FPS and 233 ftlbs
Hornady 110gr JHP 903FPS and 199 ftlbs
Federal 130gr FMJ 763FPS and 168ftlbs
Just for kicks
Corbon 90grHP from a 380KelTec did 950FPS and 181ftlbs
I would take the 9mm It will do better than any of the above.
I long ago parked my J frame

I get 270 ft lbs from a +P 158 grain .38 from a 2" barrel. It's a handload, but it matches other decent +P factory loads. I get 410 ft lbs from a +P 9x19 out of my P11.. Yeah, I like that. BUT, the .38 is packin' 158 grains of lead. It WILL expand and it WILL drill a deep hole, penetrate well and the good ol' FBI load has a great street record. That's the part I don't trust in a .380. Most .380 jello tests I've seen are unimpressive. I might rethink that for the Hornady personal defense stuff, but in general. I'm perfectly happy, though, carrying .38 Special or 9x19.

My P11 is nearly 14 years old now, best guestimate considering how much I used to shoot it on range trips when I was shooting lots of 9 in IDPA, I have over 11,000 rounds fired through it and it's still 3.5" accurate at 25 yards and never bobbles, 100 percent reliable. I'd fire 50 to 100 rounds every range trip through the P11 along with shooting my Ruger that I used for IDPA. Yeah, I have LOTS of confidence in it.

I had to shoot an attacking dog with it a few years back. I drew and fired so instinctively with it, so fast, I amazed myself. All that shooting has gotten a zen thing going with me and that gun. It almost pointed and fired itself in that situation. Now, that's about as close to fighting for my life as I wanna get, man on big, mad dog, but my reactions in that incident told me more than all my IDPA shooting about how I would perform if forced into a fight. I haven't got that sort of confidence in my .38. I think I would do well with it, it points as naturally for me, but nothing like actual experience to get your confidence up. Sorta like a new hunting rifle before you actually bloody it. Once you've made some good shots with it, you know it, you have confidence in it. Makes some difference IMHO.

 

[greenlion]

Smith & Wesson is making a few runs of 642's without the locks right now, if you don't like them. I've seen several around town lately. Same price.

 

[Scott Free]

I have a P11 and a P32. Both have been great. My PF9 was a real disappointment. I tried everything I could in hopes of reliability. (Two handed shooting was mostly fine. One handed gave me fits. After spending more in ammo than I paid for the gun, I gave up. Perhaps the fault is not the gun. Perhaps I was "limp wristing" it. That said, I don't want a gun that requires a perfect grip. I want a gun I can shoot if I'm injured. I want it to shoot if someone is dragging me out of my car by my hair or rolling on the ground with someone on top of me. I sold the PF9 and bought a 642. Having owned both, I can also say the 642 makes a better pocket gun. It's irregular contours looks less like a gun than the PF9.

 

[razorback2003]

I tried a Kel Tec P11 9mm and the 380. I didn't have jamming problems with the 9mm but thought i'd downsize to the 380 and that was a jamomatic, even after sending it off to a gunsmith to be worked on. I was able to trade it with some money for a 642. That gun does not jam. It always goes BANG. I feel like i can trust my life to the 642. I felt uneasy with Kel Tec products. S&W quality goes back a long long time and their revolvers have saved countless good guys. If the feds let off duty guys carry j frames...you know it is quality. I don't think Kel Tecs are on fed agents' approved list.

The j frame, to me, hides better than a small auto because it is less blocky. I use a cheap uncle mikes and it hides great in any pocket...pants...coat pocket...whatever. It's nice that i can shoot through a coat pocket if i need to with no problem of the gun jamming. It is nice to be able to put my hand in my coat or pants pocket when pumping gas at night and knowing i can draw or even shoot fast if I have to. Harder to do that with a small auto. J frames don't jam when limp wristed either. Pull the trigger and it'll go bang.

 

[Bishop.357]

The S&W,no qeastion. As to why...

I've been shootin' S&Ws' since I was 12yrs old,and aside from dud rounds,they've always done me right.
Now Kel-Tecs' on the other hand...

Kel-Tecs' are what my friends and I like to call "Shoot n' Toss" guns. I'll let you the reader fathom the reason as to why they are so called...

 

[Phydeaux642]

I carry a 642 in my Mika pocket holster or a Smartcarry holster most of the time. Sometimes I carry a little P32. I have been looking for a small 9mm without having to pay for a Kahr PM9. I have considered the PF9, but I own the P11 and it was unreliable from the word go. I stopped considering the PF9 and still carry the 642.