IL--Daley's new attempt at gun control and what you can do

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Don Gwinn

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Well, we knew he'd be back. Daley once again wants to force his family's (and his cronies') views on guns down the throat of the rest of the state.

I would encourage all Illinois residents to do your best to make it to the ISRA Lobbying Day on February 23! Showing up when they bring these bills to committee is certainly good, but those dates are under the control of the other side. All they have to do is change the scheduled date, time, or bills to appear and they can play with us. On the ISRA LD you WILL get to go see your legislator and wander the capitol committing random acts of education.



CITIES STRIKING BACK
AGAINST GUN SELLERS WHO ARM CRIMINALS


Illinois Also Seeks State Assault Weapons Ban; Chicago Police Seeing Flood of Such Weapons Since Federal Ban Lapsed
For Immediate Release:
01-05-2005 Contact Communications:
(202) 898-0792

Washington, D.C. - Chicago Mayor Richard Daley today urged the Illinois General Assembly to pass legislation that would help make it harder for criminals to arm themselves because of reckless behavior by gun sellers. The introduction of the legislation comes the same day the New York City Council passed a bill to try to dry up the criminal gun market that supplies New York City criminals.

The proposals in Illinois, and the bill awaiting Mayor Michael Bloomberg's signature in New York City, are part of a growing movement to hold gun sellers legally responsible for reckless conduct that supplies the illegal gun market. Last year, in three separate lawsuits, negligent gun sellers paid a combined total of $4.4 million in damages to gun violence victims.

The Illinois proposal also includes a state ban on assault weapons, which would provide some level of protection to Illinois residents now that Congress and President Bush allowed the federal assault weapons ban to expire. Mayor Daley revealed today that Chicago police have recovered 119 assault weapons from criminals since the federal ban was lifted. The New York bill stiffens penalties for violating the city's existing assault weapons ban.

"As a family member of a homicide victim, I'm thrilled that the Mayor is giving such serious attention to this issue and has made it a top priority," said Bill Jenkins, of the North Suburban (Chicago) chapter of the Million Mom March.

"The criminals in New York City are committing their crimes with guns that were sold elsewhere - but sometimes, the seller had a pretty good idea that the gun was destined for use in crime," said Edie Smith, President of the Manhattan (NY) Million Mom March chapter. "I'm glad my city is taking steps to close down the criminal gun pipeline by holding reckless gun sellers accountable."

The state and local efforts to ensure reckless gun dealers are held accountable, however, are moving forward under a cloud. Gun lobby allies in the U.S. Congress are expected to press hard over the coming weeks for passage of a federal law that would immunize the most reckless gun dealers from lawsuits. Such a federal statute would pre-empt state courts from granting relief to gun violence victims.

Brady Campaign President Mike Barnes praised the efforts in Illinois and New York. "Mayor Daley and the leaders in the Illinois General Assembly and Mayor Bloomberg and the City Council in New York deserve the gratitude of the people they serve for standing up for the rights of victims and proposing key steps to stop the flow of guns to killers," Barnes said. "Meanwhile in Washington, leaders in both the House and the Senate want to make it easier for criminals to access firearms by protecting the worst-behaving individuals in the gun industry from being held accountable."

"The tide is turning in America, and smart leaders are going to be fighting to make it harder for the bad guys to get guns," said Sarah Brady, Chair of the Brady Campaign united with the Million Mom March. "Now, if only President Bush and Congress will take a more common sense approach to these issues, we'll make real progress."

The Illinois legislation would make it an offense to sell guns without taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they are not used illegally, permit victims of gun violence and their families to sue gun dealers who knew, or should have known, that a sale was illegal or that the buyer intended to use the firearms unlawfully, require state licenses for gun dealers, require background checks on gun purchasers at gun shows, limit handgun purchases in the state to one per month to discourage sales into the criminal marketplace, and institute the statewide assault weapons ban. In unveiling the legislative package, Mayor Daley was joined by State Representatives Deborah Graham and Edward Acevedo as well as Senator Mattie Hunter.

The New York City Council bill, which Mayor Bloomberg has pledged to sign, also limits handgun purchases to one per month, requires background checks at gun shows and ensures access to the courts to gun violence victims if a gun seller has refused to follow a voluntary code of conduct. City Council member David Yassky was the principal sponsor of the measures.

The Illinois General Assembly will convene on January 12.




Sen. Mattie Hunter
611C Capitol Building
Springfield, IL 62706
217-782-5966

2008 South Wabash
Chicago, IL 60616
773-624-2004

Rep. Edward Acevedo
109 Capitol
Springfield, IL 62706
217-782-2855

2439 South Oakley
Chicago, IL 60608
773-843-1200

Rep. Deborah Graham
266-S Stratton Office Building
Springfield, IL 62706
217-782-6400

6101 1/2 West North Avenue
Oak Park, IL 60302
708-445-9520
 
Given that all else has failed miserably, perhaps Chicago should try controlling its own violent criminals instead of the law-abiding citizens of the entire state of Illinois.

The drawback, of course, is that the vast majority of criminals vote for representatives of the Democratic (sic) party.
 
Notice the slightly more balanced and skeptical tone of the Tribune's piece on this issue--time was when the Trib would have reprinted that press release.


Undaunted Daley pushes gun curbs
Mayor finds hope and guidance in justices' rulings
By Gary Washburn
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 6, 2005

Despite repeated defeats in Springfield in the past, Mayor Richard Daley on Wednesday unveiled his annual package of gun control proposals, adding two measures stemming from what he called recent Illinois Supreme Court guidance.

One of the new bills would make it a crime to sell guns without taking reasonable precautions that the weapons would not be used to break the law.

"This would give the courts the power to fine and close gun dealers who help customers avoid background checks, who sell them large numbers of handguns without filing the required reports or who sell handguns to residents of cities like Chicago where they are illegal," Daley said at a news conference at Chicago Police Headquarters.

Under the second measure, victims of violence and their families could sue if a gun dealer knew, or should have known, that the sale of the firearm was illegal or that the purchaser intended to use it illegally.

Though the Supreme Court rejected the city's "public nuisance" argument when it dismissed Daley's $433 million damage suit against 40 gun manufacturers, distributors and dealers in November, the majority of justices expressed hope that lawmakers would turn their attention to the issue of gun violence.

"When the Illinois Supreme Court rejected our lawsuit against the gun industry, many people expected me to fold my tent and give up the fight to protect the people of Chicago from gun violence," Daley said. "Well, they were completely wrong. ... We'll never give up or give in to extremists who don't understand that the vast majority of people in Chicago, the suburbs and Downstate favor reasonable, moderate gun legislation."

Todd Vandermyde, Illinois legislative liaison for the National Rifle Association, said the proposals are ill-conceived.

"You are talking about making gun dealers and other people clairvoyant," he said. "There is no clear standard."

Daley, surrounded at the news conference by state legislators from Chicago who planned to be sponsors, said he also will push for measures that he has sought in past years. They include a licensing requirement for gun dealers; closure of the loophole that allows people to buy at gun shows without a background check; a limit on handgun purchases to one a month per person; and a ban on assault weapons.

Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago) acknowledged that Downstate legislators will oppose the package, but he said that political heat for gun control from constituents is building under suburban Republicans who in the past voted with the opponents.

In the legislative session that begins next week, "these will be front burner issues, and I think we are going to have great success," he said.

The assault weapon ban and gun show loophole proposals have the greatest chance of passage, Cullerton said.

Vandermyde had a different view.

"All this stuff has failed to win a majority of support in the General Assembly in the past, and I suspect it will fail again," he said. As for the new proposals, Daley "is trying to take a second bite at the apple on a lawsuit that was shown to be without any real cause," he said.

Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a staunch gun control proponent earlier in his political career, has taken a more muted approach on the issue since he was elected governor.

Daley dodged repeatedly when asked about Blagojevich, who now instead is championing legislation that would clamp down on violent video games.

"I am speaking for the city of Chicago," the mayor said. "This is not about the governor. This is about our legislation."

"What is critical, obviously, is for [Blagojevich] to sign it," Cullerton said. "We will work on these things, and we will pass them and then he has to do his job and sign it."

Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune
 
Daley pushes for gun control laws

January 5, 2005

BY MAURA KELLY LANNAN ASSOCIATED PRESS
Advertisement


Mayor Richard Daley on Wednesday pushed for lawmakers to approve a wide range of gun control measures, moving from the court system to the Legislature his campaign to hold gun dealers responsible for the costs to society of handgun violence.

Daley, who has been urging lawmakers to adopt most of the reforms for years with little success, wants them to approve two new proposals that would prevent gun dealers from knowingly selling firearms to criminals and that would allow victims of gun violence to sue dealers who knew the weapon had been sold illegally.

"I believe it balances the rights of gun owners with the rights of people across the state to be safe from gun violence," Daley said. "Our agenda is reasonable and fair. It occupies the middle ground, like most of the people of the state."

The new proposals are in response to the Illinois Supreme Court's dismissal in November of two lawsuits by the city of Chicago and victims of handgun violence.

The lawsuits alleged gun manufacturers, distributors and sellers caused a "public nuisance" by saturating the metropolitan area with guns they knew would end up in criminals' hands.

Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, accused Daley of trying to shift blame for Chicago's violent crime to gun dealers.

"The mayor lost his lawsuit and now he's trying to get a second bite at the apple," Vandermyde said. "The mayor is out of step with the rest of the state and their views. It's not up to you, Mr. Mayor. You're not the mayor of Illinois. You're the mayor of Chicago."

The court said there was no legal basis for holding the manufacturers responsible and that the alleged nuisance was the use of the guns, not the manufacture or sale. But the court also urged lawmakers to act to crack down on gunmakers' marketing practices.

"I'll never give up or give in to the gang bangers, drug dealers or the gun industry that knowingly sells and markets guns in Chicago," Daley said. "We will never give up or give in to extremists who don't understand that the vast majority of people in Chicago, suburbs and downstate, are in favor of reasonable, moderate gun legislation."

Daley wants to make it an offense to sell guns without taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they are not used illegally.

He also proposed allowing victims of gun violence and their families to sue gun dealers who knew, or should have known, that the gun used in the crime had been illegally sold or that the buyer intended to use the gun unlawfully.

"He wants every gun dealer or manufacturer to become clairvoyant," Vandermyde said. "You have a very vague and nebulous standard you're trying to set."

The other bills Daley has proposed including limiting gun purchases to one per month, requiring sales at gun shows to go through criminal background checks, banning assault weapons and requiring gun dealers to get licenses from the Illinois State Police.

Daley also wants to increase prison sentences for those with prior felony convictions who are caught with guns.

Some of the bills have repeatedly failed, even after Democrats took control of both the state House and Senate in 2003.

Daley said he will bring more people in to testify in support of the bills from across Illinois. Sen. John Cullerton, D-Chicago, said the issue is regional, not partisan. He said downstate Democrats have rejected the proposals in the past but hopes Republicans in Chicago's suburbs will support them.

Sen. Kirk Dillard, R-Hinsdale, and GOP chairman in DuPage County, agreed that suburban Republican support would be needed for some of the proposals to pass. He said his constituents generally favor an assault weapons ban and requiring sales at gun shows to go through criminal background checks, but it was hard to tell how lawmakers would act.

"A lot depends upon how an assault weapon is defined and how a gun show loophole is defined," he said.
 
What a great idea - I can imagine how it would work...

Dealer: "Hey, are you planning to use this gun to commit a crime?"
Buyer: "Yeah, I'm gonna knock over the neighborhood 7-11 tonight."
Dealer: "Oh, okay - I was just checking; here's your gun and have a nice day."

At least Blagojevich is smart enough to crusade against violent video games - the number of teenagers whom he might upset and could vote against him is probably insignificant.

While we are roaming in fantasyland, would it be theoretically possible for Illinois to condemn the entire city of Chicago?
 
You can get more details from ISRA, but it will be held at the Capitol building on Monroe St. in Springfield. The idea is to meet in the cafeteria down in the basement, talk, gather materials and such, and then split off to find your legislators' offices and speak to them.

Business-casual dress, no camo or special forces t-shirts, please. ;)

I don't love the ISRA leadership (as I KNOW someone out there is thinking right now) but this Lobbying Day is a good idea that seems to make an impact, and they aren't going to check to make sure you're an ISRA member or anything.



The videogame idea is just as nebulous, but you're right, it's hard to go wrong by giving parents something to blame their kids' problems on other than their own parenting or lack thereof.
 
Here yhey are again, trying to pass more laws to alleviate problems that don't exist. I am thinking about "the gun show loophole" and how this can be a problem when you must have a FOID card to buy or sell to anyone in the state. The five day waiting period for handguns also applies even if you sell to a friend and neither of you are an FFL. It is true the FOID is valid for five years, but I believe the State Police are supposed to check records every six months for revocable offenses. I could be wrong on that, if anyone knows for sure please chime in. I was at ISRA lobby day last year and will do my best to attend again this year. I have allready contacted my state representive Republican Bill Black, and left a message with State Senator Rick Winkle another republican, both have allways stood on the side of gun owners rights. Actually, I heard one thing in the Daley list that I have no problem with; harsher penalties for felons posessing guns. Once again I could be wrong but, I think Federal is 5years while Illinois is only two. Don't wait to contact your state reps, especially if they are good ones, that means give them an "atta-boy" for their good work, I think they will appreciate it. Jim.
 
The Illinois legislation would make it an offense to sell guns without taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they are not used illegally, permit victims of gun violence and their families to sue gun dealers who knew, or should have known, that a sale was illegal or that the buyer intended to use the firearms unlawfully, require state licenses for gun dealers, require background checks on gun purchasers at gun shows, limit handgun purchases in the state to one per month to discourage sales into the criminal marketplace, and institute the statewide assault weapons ban.
Click to expand...

The state already did that. It's illegal to sell a gun in Illinois without checking the buyers FOID Card. The state certified the buyer was legal when they issued him a FOID card. The way I see it, You'd have to sue the state of Illinois, because they assumed that responsibility when they issued the FOID card!! Let the City of Chicago sue the Illinois State Police !!!

I'll be in Springfield on Lobby Day. Kingcreek, sctman800, Don, I'll see you guys there.

Jeff
 
Same place as last time then. I can't remeber if I went there last year or the year before (only 30 years old and already losing my memory) but I'll be there this year if my work schedule allows.

While we are roaming in fantasyland, would it be theoretically possible for Illinois to condemn the entire city of Chicago?
Click to expand...

I say make it the 51st state so the rest of Illinois can be left alone.
 
I am always amazed that people think gun dealers have some ability to decide who to sell to and who not (outside of straw buyers and the underage, obviously). As someone posted up above, most people who are planning on using a gun in a crime are smart enough not to reveal that information.
I guess in Chicago since they cant really go after the criminals they have to go after the law-abiding. What a crock. The worst part is that the state is largely rural yet seems to have the worst gun laws in the country for such a state.
 
The Illinois legislation would make it an offense to sell guns without taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they are not used illegally, permit victims of gun violence and their families to sue gun dealers who knew, or should have known, that a sale was illegal or that the buyer intended to use the firearms unlawfully, require state licenses for gun dealers, require background checks on gun purchasers at gun shows, limit handgun purchases in the state to one per month to discourage sales into the criminal marketplace, and institute the statewide assault weapons ban
Click to expand...

neat how they slip they assault weapons thing in there.

that is what i would be mroe worried about.
i suppose the majority on this forum is opposed to the one per month limit?

i don't see that part as a big deal myself, not for or against that part.

the really wacked part of this whole thing is the "hold responsible".

ok
1) this would pretty much by default relieve manufacturers of responsibiltiy or not?

i am into that. the only time i think a gun maker is responsible is if the gun malfunctions/explodes and hurts the user or bystander.

retailer however should possibly bear some responsibilty, in certain circumstances, such as if there is much evidence that shows dealer knew a customer was a felon, reselling the guns without checks.

other than a dealer selling to someone wh ois reselling, i see VERY LITTLE way to prove a dealer knew a person who passed a check and provided all other necessary stuff to buy a gun actually knew the gun would be for crime.
the article wording makes this law seem pretty vague and unusable, with one
very nice little cut for them=

seems like this is really a sideways way to ban assault wepaons more than anything else.

i am assuming all the stuff about checks and one per month was already on the books?
the "hold a dealer responsible" even if it passed, would never hold up in court, and in any case where it could be blantantly proven the dealer knew he was selling gun to be used in crime isn't that in violation of basic gun dealer laws anyway???????????????//

very weird
 
Deja Vu all over again.
I'm making plans to be there. (Wife was planning a little trip around then but I think I can sway her on that.)
Anybody interested in a THR late lunch rally or anything after the political arm-twisting?
 
I'm going to try and make the Lobby Day too. This crap has never passed before, but that's because we've always worked hard to make it that way.

There's a serious problem with healthcare practicioners fleeing the state in southern Illinois, several pro-gun reforms need to be made here, we still have significant budget problems, all of the governor's fee increases are driving businesses away...

And the most important thing Rod can think to do is to try and ban violent video games.

:banghead:
 
Sample Letter to copy/paste for anti-2A legislators:

Senator Mattie Hunter
611C Capitol Building
Springfield, IL 62706
217-782-5966

Senator Hunter:

I am extremely dismayed by your recent support of Mayor Daley’s latest gun control “packageâ€. The people of Illinois do not want more gun control, and I resent your incessant efforts to undermine my rights.

Adding to the already burdensome restrictions facing lawful gun owners in this state and indiscriminately banning firearms will do nothing to reduce crime or increase public safety. People with malevolent intentions will find and use guns in spite of the law. All Chicago has to show for its draconian regulations is the nation’s highest murder rate; why are you so eager to force these failed policies onto the rest of Illinois?

The mayor’s claim that his proposed bills will not affect hunters or sportsmen is false, and more importantly, irrelevant. The sanctity of the Second Amendment is in no way contingent upon whether or not hunters are inconvenienced. Would you zealously support a series of bills that severely restricted the right to free speech if Mayor Daley assured you that sports broadcasters would not be affected?

I will be watching this issue closely, and I invite you to contact me if you wish to discuss the matter further.

Sincerely,
Frustrated IL Gun Owner
 
There's a serious problem with healthcare practicioners fleeing the state in southern Illinois, several pro-gun reforms need to be made here,
Click to expand...

Easy solution to both problems:
OPEN SEASON ON DOCTORS LEAVING THE STATE!! :neener:
 
Blagojevich goes after the videogames for the same reason Daley goes after gun owners and FFL's. Rabbi said it; the way he sees it, you stay popular by crusading against the bad guys. If you can't crusade against the bad guys because it's difficult to get them, you crusade against whoever's convenient and can't or won't hit you back. For Daley, that's gun owners. But he and Blago are in very different situations; Blago has ticked off the downstate Democrats enough already and suffered for it, and he can't afford to do it over guns again, so he's going to pick on videogame retailers. They may hate him, but while he's stomping on their faces he's also giving a lot of harried parents a great excuse for why their kids throw chunks of concrete off overpasses--an excuse that doesn't involve bad parenting. You'll never go broke telling people what they want to hear.

Interestingly, Blago and Dick Mell are beginning to have their arguments in public. One of Mell's cousins or nephews (I can't keep track, it's like trying to keep tabs on all the Gambino and Gotti relations) runs a landfill/dump up north, and he's been shopping around for clients while running his big mouth. He actually told people they should use his place because he's cousins with the Governor and he can ignore any state EPA laws he wants.
Rock-hard dehydrated essential oil of stupid.

So Blago did the obvious thing and personally ordered the place shut down, then put out a press release saying that he was sorry to do it but he can't have family members using his name to break the law. 50 points for grasping the obvious to the Boy Governor.

Mell didn't take that very well; he told the reporters that Blago only did it to get back at him (Dick Mell) because Blago can't stand that people think he was only elected because of Mell.


Meanwhile, the rumors I passed on awhile back about Blagojevich putting some of his financial backers on a double-secret wife-sharing plan are getting wilder by the day, but the story still hasn't broken in the press so I don't trust it yet. I'll tell you all when you're older.
 
If you're not in Springfield or Chicago, I don't know how much press this would get, but the Blago-Mell rift is getting worse. In public.

Mell actually told reporters this weekend that Blago "uses people. . . he used me, he used my daughter, he uses everybody and when they're not useful anymore he just throws them away . . ."

He also told the same bunch that Blago has no room to talk about corruption or reform because "it's common knowledge that he sells seats on state commissions for $50,000 campaign contributions."

I'm honestly not sure Mell, smart though he is, understands what he's doing. That's a serious charge downstate and not something he can take back or stop if it gains momentum. In the Chicago world he's used to, you might call your opponent a thief in the pocket of gangsters as a matter of course just to let him know you're annoyed, because it'll all be forgotten in a week or two.

Either that, or I'm totally wrong and Mell knows their relationship is so far gone that his future is no longer tied to Blago.


The rumor to which these newsies keep referring (but won't mention explicitly) is that Frederick Nessler's wife Jill is very pregnant and has left her husband, one of Blago's biggest contributors. It STILL has not broken publicly, not really, but the talk radio hosts around here now refer to "those rumors you've no doubt heard" and "the allegations we're all familiar with." Not very secret around Springfield, apparently.

Supposedly Blago's wife was asked by Raymond Poe (a legislator) at a party why she seemed so depressed, and shouted at him that he would be depressed too if Jill Nessler were having his husband's baby, then ran out. Yes, I know there's a logic problem, but if the story is true, she was upset and that's what she said.

Anyway, there is much speculation that Blago has finally worn out the Mell family's considerable patience. Some people are saying the whole thing was staged by Blagojevich to "prove" his independence from Mell. The problem with that is that a lot of his donors do end up on commissions, and that's not the kind of question you'd think he would want raised if he were in control of this thing. Of course, there's also the fact that he is NOT independent of Mell; if this split really happens, he's going down in flames a lot sooner than we all thought. I can't imagine he'll let it happen, though--how dumb is he, really?

Heck, it's even possible that Blagojevich thought he was going to stage a spat to prove his independence, and Mell went along with it just long enough to stick the knife in and remind Blago who's boss--and that staged displays of independence are not real self-reliance.

Like the sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives.
:rolleyes:
 
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