I'm confused: 10mm woods carry question

[c919]

Ok so I'm finally getting around to tasting the infamous kool aid. I'm looking at a G20 as my new woods gun and I have come across some confusing info.

***Now before I continue, I want to make it known that I don't want any comments about how I need a .44/.45lc/.454 etc... blah blah. No pun intended, but I have weighed out the pros/cons of this choice and I just can't see myself lugging around a big ol' six gun on some of the hikes I go on. I just need something on the light side of the woods gun spectrum.

So anyhow, I would want to carry a the most powerful round possible such as Buffalo Bore or Double Tap, but I have a question. With the hexagonal rifling, I know lead is a no-no (not to mention it's an auto), but on Double Tap's web page it says that the test gun they used for the hardcast 200 gr was a G20. The 200 gr hardcast would seem to be ideal for black bear and boar, but naturally I would assume I shouldn't use this in a G20. I guess this stuff is aimed at the 10mm revolver owners.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Did they perhaps use a non-hex rifled barrel for these tests?

Also, assuming that I shouldn't use the hardcast stuff in a G20, what full power loads from these companies would you suggest for black bear/boar? I assume 200 gr FMJ's would be the next best thing, right?

ETA: I hear that when using these full power loads in the newer G20's one should swap to a heavier recoil spring to avoid losing velocity due to the breach face opening prematurely. Have any of you made this switch? If so, how heavy of a spring would you suggest?

 

[Gunfighter123]

I've heard/seen MANY people useing lead in a standard Glock ---- YOU MUST CLEAN it and REALLY scrub the brl. every X number of shots. I would bet that 4 or 5 rds. of DTs lead loads , followed by a good brl. scrub would not hurt at all. Then carry a mag full while in the woods.

2nd choice would be 200 gr. or heavier FMJs , IMHO

Search here for much more info;
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Talk-Forums-f187.html&

 

[jmortimer]

Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions, there are only a couple calibers that could even qualify in the first place. The Desert Eagle in .50 AE and the Grizzly .44 mag (revolver caliber) would be two. If you want a .44 mag get a revolver. If you want a gun for the back country get a revolver.
Even the "Heavy 10 mm from Buffalo Bore is "less gun" than the "Heavy .357 mag" - The Buffalo Bore FMJ would be your best choice if you go with the 10mm. With large bore revolver calibers like the .45 Colt (11.43 mm) you will get four feet or even more of penetration. The semi-auto users point to firepower but a large bear will be more impressed with a single four foot plus wound channel as opposed to 4 or 5 two foot wound channels. Lead Hard Cast bullets in the LBT design out of large bore revolvers is the way to go unless you will only encounter smaller critters and people. Why fight reality.

 

[davepool]

Here are some examples of full power 10mm that would be good for protection against critters that bite. If you want to use lead ammo you can get an after market barrel and avoid any problems , the KKM was $165.00, i also have a lone wolf i paid $114.00 for. I did switch to a stainless steel guide rod with a heavier spring, i can't remember the weight it was a couple of years ago and my memory is starting to go as i get older ( i think i'm almost 60 er ah 59, **** i forgot) any way you can email Mike McNett at DoubleTap he's really helpful.

Besides i'd rather have 15 rounds and a quick reload than 6 rounds. If you miss 6 times with the G20 you still have 9 more tries

 

[davepool]

If you're worried that you might run into Bigfoot,you could carry one these little guys, if you run out of bullets you could beat him on the head with it

 

[c919]

Sorry you don't want to hear it...

That's right, I didn't want to hear it, that's why I told you in my OP to keep that to yourself. I'm well aware that a .44 or what-not would be a better choice for huge angry beasts, but I don't want one for this purpose. I'm not in grizzly country here, and I think a 10mm would be just fine for a hog or black bear.

 

[blitzen]

There is no reason on gods green earth that a 10mm auto will not suit you fine as a woods gun in Tennessee. I know a few people who carry them around in real bear country here in AK. If you like the platform, get it!

 

[c919]

^^^ My conclusion exactly. My current EDC/"it'll do for now" woods gun is my SP101 2 1/4" and I just want something different for my camping gun. Plus, I've been looking for a good excuse to get me a 10mm for a while now.

 

[GJgo]

I'd be wary of the Gold Dot loads. In my personal 10mm tests they don't penetrate anywhere near as well as the XTP loads- IMO the GD was designed for .40 velocities. My 180gr XTP load at 1350 FPS holds together & penetrates real deep.

The lead stuff is likely shot through an aftermarket barrel with standard rifling.

I think the 10mm is a fine woods sidearm for most of the lower 48. I carry mine for most of my woods hikes, and only reach for the .44 instead when I'm going into moose country.

P.S. if you don't reload I'll take your brass!!!!

 

[Motownfire]

I doubt you will have any issues with leading in the stock Glock barrel. I worried about this also when i started reloading for my G23 and G27. I use http://www.missouribullet.com/ 180's. I don't have any issues with leading in either of my stock barrels. I shoot 200-300 rounds per session and have yet to see any leading issues in my barrels.

 

[NG VI]

Using actual hardcast bullets and not soft lead bullets the stock barrel won't give you any trouble, just clean it very well after range sessions. And if you want to milk a little more speed out of the 20, there is a factory 6" barrel and a few companies making 6" barrels, seems like a good addition.

 

[jmortimer]

Then there is always reality
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/

 

[NG VI]

How many 900 pound bears is he likely to run across in Tennessee?

And besides, a hard cast 200 grain full power 10mm is quite a bit more gun than a 9mm or .40 pistol.

 

[jmortimer]

None - you're correct. As long as you stick with a hard cast bullet or the Buffalo Bore FMJ the 10mm would do just fine for most any bear in the south.

 

[c919]

^^^ Yeah, at best 400-500#'s. I've actually encountered black bears on two separate hikes in the past, and they didn't show any aggression. I think overall, they will just size you up and move on as long as you stay cool (of course, I'm sure there are others who aren't so nice).

My main concern is boar. They are all around this area and very aggressive. I have faith in the 10mm when it comes to 10mm vs boar.

 

[roscoe]

Aren't the Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap loads gas checked? That keeps the leading way down. Myself, I use the heavy hardcast in 10mm in the woods, but in a 1006.

 

[-v-]

+1 for either 200gr FMJ or Double-Tap's 230gr hard-cast flat nose. For the usual things you will run across in our back woods that is more than enough guns. Leave the silly "MUST CARRY HAND CANNON!!11" crowd and their rabbid zombie bears with a hunger for human flesh to themselves. They rarely have anything productive to say.

The 230gr hard-cast is my preferred choice around here. Plenty to put down a boar or 10, and enough to defend myself from an angry momma-bear. With the bears, as long as you don't mess with them, they don't really want to mess with you, which I am sure you know already.

I doubt the gas-check on a hard-cast will help with leading of the barrel, since its there to stave off gas-etching. You will still have lead-to-bore contact going on.

 

[John Wayne]

Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions, there are only a couple calibers that could even qualify in the first place.

DoubleTap's 200 gr. load for the 10mm Auto is 100 fps faster than their 200 gr. .357 Mag load. The 10mm can also shoot 230 gr. bullets, while the .357 tops out at 200 gr. .357 Mag does not begin to out-perform 10mm until you get into carbine-length barrels.

People are quick to recommend .454 and .460 revolvers...I doubt anyone who does so has actually carried one for an extended period of time. They probably haven't ever seen a bear either.

 

[David E]

A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions,

Kinda hard to ignore dirt and rough conditions in the woods, ain't it ?

Semi autos, especially Glocks, handle rough treatment better than any revolver. Things happen. If you fall in the water or the gun somehow ends up in the muck, I'd rather have a Glock than a revolver in that case. I could clean the gun at right then, swishing out the muck in the creek. Shake it dry and reassemble. Can't do that with a revolver.

 

[Gunfighter123]

Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions,

------------- AND ----- ;

Why fight reality.

I guess we need to talk about WHO'S REALITY ???

Your statement that a semi-auto " is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions" ------ I wonder if anyone has told the WORLDS Military about this ---- last I looked , THEY ALL carried autos and NOT revolvers and they spend a great deal of time in "dirt and rough conditions" .

A point not brought up in this post is that if a bear , even a small bear , gets ahold of you , a auto is much easier to fire one handed. A DA revolver is also good IMHO , while a single action like a Ruger is really not ---- you have to manually use your thumb to cock for each shot , in that brief instant --- you are not "locked" down on the handgun and could lose the gun easier then if your thumb is "locked" while gripping a semi-auto or DA revolver.

 

[jmortimer]

I stand corrected - the glock can take dirt but the rifling is not the best for cast bullets. Reality was a 900 pound bear charge and I noted the O/P is in Tenn. so that is not an issue.

 

[Gunfighter123]

Hiya jmortimer,
good for you to come back to a post and state " I stand corrected" -- not many people will do such a thing , most will just not post on that thread anymore.
Good for you ----- GF123

 

[heavyshooter]

c919,

LOL!!! When you mentioned that you were not interested in hearing the arguments against the 10mm I went to get a bowl of popcorn. I saw this one coming.

I believe the 10mm is good against hogs, cougars, and black bear (it is rather powerful, high capacity, and allows for quick reloads). And the Glock’s ability to endure dirt and grime is proven. I don't know why we keep overlooking the fact that Glocks are used in jungles and deserts all over the world (and that endorsement is coming from a Glock detractor). So if it works for you, get full power loads (crucial) that are 200 gr. or heavier fmj or hardcast (crucial) and run with it.

P.S. - While I do not agree with everyone who is trying to talk you out of your Glock, I must tell you that I choose a revolver for my trail gun. Not because of dirt or effectiveness of the round. It has been my experience that you may have to use your weapon in a manner that has your muzzle against the assailant. This is particularly true is you are attacked by a bear or cougar. Under those circumstances you may knock the weapon out of battery and render it ineffective for a moment. That moment may be crucial. --- Just my .02 ---

Having said that, I would much prefer you take your Glock with you if it keeps you from going empty handed. It is a fine choice.

Heavy

 

[Man With A Gun]

The 10mm is a bear killer BUT don't go hunting that kind of trouble.

Recently a Ranger in Alaska had a grizzly bear come at him and was forced to shoot it dead.....with a .40 S&W 160 grain HP load. Took a full mag to bring it down at close range but it worked.

The 40 S&W load, as you know, is the little sister of the 10mm.

The 10mm is a fine round for protection in Alaska BUT, here again, it is not a favored round for which one would set out to find and kill a grizzly.

Carry the 10mm with good loads and forget LEAD bullets. They are more trouble than they are worth UNLESS you intend to handload and plink with the 10mm...get an aftermarket barrel and a brush.

 

[EMT40SW]

What about Corbon's 180 gr jacketed soft pionts- 1300 ft2 and 676 lb of energy. That is what I would load that glock with.