AZAndy
Member
Do what?
I'm considering updating my reloading apparatus
- Thread starter Stimovsky
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Zendude
Member
It seems that double charging a cartridge is less likely with at turret or progressive vs a single stage too.
Paddy
member
I think the 550b or any non-auto indexing progressive, has the highest chance for a double charge because you can easily loose focus while inspecting other stations, and the cases aren't forced through to the next step. However I don't see how a SS would be very easy to double charge.
I leave the LnL AP set up for one pistol cart full time, I use the BL550 for all rifle carts and a few other pistol, and the SS for everything else. It's a good system for me. Also, the BL550 is very affordable compared to a turret. I paid like 230$ for mine brand new.
I leave the LnL AP set up for one pistol cart full time, I use the BL550 for all rifle carts and a few other pistol, and the SS for everything else. It's a good system for me. Also, the BL550 is very affordable compared to a turret. I paid like 230$ for mine brand new.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
The Lee Classic Turret press can still be had for under $100 so it's not more expensive than a quality single stage press. Turrets cost only $10 so having one for each cartridge you load for is easy to do. Having the dies ready to go and already adjusted is a very good feature. Even though you need to pull the handle 4x times not handling the case saves plenty of time and it's hard to double charge a case on an auto-indexing press. For the price there are plenty of advantages but I'm also not saying a good single stage press isn't needed. I have both.
THEWELSHM
Member
I own a 1973 RCBS JR 3 I also own a Hornady LNL love them both
thewelshm
thewelshm
I agree.
I batch process when loading on a single stage.
I also batch process with my progressives just with several steps accomplished per batch.
I resize my cases at one time, then clean them. I prime off the press and load at a different time.
In my opinion, the Redding/RCBS/Lyman turret presses cost more than single stage presses and don't give you anything measurable. I'd rather spend the difference on other reloading goodies.
I've loaded a ton of shot shells on a MEC 600jr shot shell loader which is a similar process as the Lee turret press except the shell moves, albeit manually, instead of the dies. You operate on one round of ammunition at a time from beginning to end. I'd rather ante up and get a progressive that can do several steps at one pull of the handle.
I'm just one data point and realize that turret presses work great for some folks.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Welcome to the forum!I own a 1973 RCBS JR 3 I also own a Hornady LNL love them both
thewelshm
thomas15
Member
For what it is worth...
I handload 7000+ rounds/pistol per year. I also have all three kinds of presses. Having tried to find a purpose for each press I've finally come to the conclusion that a progressive for pistol and a single stage for rifle while the turret press is a spare.
It's not a flippant statement as I have loaded many thousands on my trusty turret. Having timed loading times on each press (in a hack efficiency study) I have come to the conclusion that the time savings of a turret press over a single stage are not all that great, in my situation roughly and at best a 15% increase in realized efficiency.
Some may achieve a greater margin of efficiency. In my case I'm using a manual turret press with a case activated powder drop. The powder drop I use is certainly more robust than the plastic body variety and uses a ptx case mouth expansion tool. I believe makes up for any loss of efficiency due to the lack of a auto indexing turret press because it eliminates one station.
I have nothing against turret presses but if the question is should I spend money on one to save time over a single stage I would have to say that the time savings will be an overall disappointment. This is not a put down of any one particular press model. I personally see nothing wrong with wanting a change of scenery on the reloading bench. This is after all a hobby. All I'm trying to say is that if an increase in the production time is the goal, a turret press may not give the satisfaction over a single stage that one might expect.
One final comment, I was in my local Cabelas on Friday and they have on display a sample of each model of Lee, Forrester, Hornady and RCBS all mounted on the same shelf and all in a row. I pulled the handle down on all of the presses because I wanted to see how far the handle travel compares on each. The Lee turret press has quite a bit more travel than the others. This may sound like a nit pick but if efficiency is a concern then every inch times the number of pulls add to the effort required to operate the press.
At this point in my life I want efficiency for two reasons, one to save time and two because my back begins to ache under certain conditions.
Just my 2 cents, thanks for reading.
ON EDIT... one final thing. I believe that while no one can dictate to another how to best spend their money it seems a bit difficult to me to wrap my head around the concept of an individual who shoots 500+ rounds per month would be obsessing over a one time $35.00 shell plate purchase. Hope this doesn't offend anyone as it is not my purpose in pointing this out.
I handload 7000+ rounds/pistol per year. I also have all three kinds of presses. Having tried to find a purpose for each press I've finally come to the conclusion that a progressive for pistol and a single stage for rifle while the turret press is a spare.
It's not a flippant statement as I have loaded many thousands on my trusty turret. Having timed loading times on each press (in a hack efficiency study) I have come to the conclusion that the time savings of a turret press over a single stage are not all that great, in my situation roughly and at best a 15% increase in realized efficiency.
Some may achieve a greater margin of efficiency. In my case I'm using a manual turret press with a case activated powder drop. The powder drop I use is certainly more robust than the plastic body variety and uses a ptx case mouth expansion tool. I believe makes up for any loss of efficiency due to the lack of a auto indexing turret press because it eliminates one station.
I have nothing against turret presses but if the question is should I spend money on one to save time over a single stage I would have to say that the time savings will be an overall disappointment. This is not a put down of any one particular press model. I personally see nothing wrong with wanting a change of scenery on the reloading bench. This is after all a hobby. All I'm trying to say is that if an increase in the production time is the goal, a turret press may not give the satisfaction over a single stage that one might expect.
One final comment, I was in my local Cabelas on Friday and they have on display a sample of each model of Lee, Forrester, Hornady and RCBS all mounted on the same shelf and all in a row. I pulled the handle down on all of the presses because I wanted to see how far the handle travel compares on each. The Lee turret press has quite a bit more travel than the others. This may sound like a nit pick but if efficiency is a concern then every inch times the number of pulls add to the effort required to operate the press.
At this point in my life I want efficiency for two reasons, one to save time and two because my back begins to ache under certain conditions.
Just my 2 cents, thanks for reading.
ON EDIT... one final thing. I believe that while no one can dictate to another how to best spend their money it seems a bit difficult to me to wrap my head around the concept of an individual who shoots 500+ rounds per month would be obsessing over a one time $35.00 shell plate purchase. Hope this doesn't offend anyone as it is not my purpose in pointing this out.
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oldreloader
Member
I have both a single stage and a Classic Turret. I'm not knocking the progressive presses. I don't load enough to feel justified in buying one and with the LCT I still feel like I'm reloading and not "making ammunition". Nothing wrong with making ammo but I enjoy the reloading process as much as the shooting.
OK got it
Thank you all for the time you took to help me make up my mind.
I read your answers thoroughly, and I got it : I took a second look at the Lee Classic Turret.
I had considered it earlier but removed it from my selection because it doesn't look as sturdy as an RCBS, and it includes plastic parts involved in the cycling process.
This is also part of the reasons I removed Dillons.
I also suspected that an assembled frame would somehow be more affected by mechanical stress than a monobloc frame.
It appears it was just prejudice. So LCT it will be, so many advises make it an easy choice now.
Thanks again,
Thank you all for the time you took to help me make up my mind.
I read your answers thoroughly, and I got it : I took a second look at the Lee Classic Turret.
I had considered it earlier but removed it from my selection because it doesn't look as sturdy as an RCBS, and it includes plastic parts involved in the cycling process.
This is also part of the reasons I removed Dillons.
I also suspected that an assembled frame would somehow be more affected by mechanical stress than a monobloc frame.
It appears it was just prejudice. So LCT it will be, so many advises make it an easy choice now.
Thanks again,
I bought an RCBS Rock Chucker many years ago and upgraded it with an RCBS Piggyback unit to turn it into a Progressive, and reloaded with this set up for many more years.
Recently, after looking at all the currently available options, I purchased a Hornady Lock n Load Progressive Press and yes, reloading presses have advanced quite a lot in the last few years.
The Hornady press is a master work of simplicity and reliability. My RCBS Piggyback unit worked, but there were always problems with the idiotic paper clip cartridge ejector, paper clip first station cartridge retainer that had to be manually set for each cartridge put into the press, and crappy plastic and spring steel cartridge holders for the other stations that would break every once in a while. Also, slop in die plates, which is true of many presses that still use them. The final straw for me on the RCBS Piggyback was shellplates unscrewing themselves when reloading. I tried many different ways to fix this problem, including new centre bolts and shims and nothing worked.
The Hornady is much cheaper to set up than the Dillon and I can use all of my old Lee and RCBS dies without a problem. Also, the Lock n Load bushing system is masterfully done. You can set your dies up once and never have to set them again. I've kept my RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press, which I use for rifle cartridges, and converted it to the Hornady Lock n Load Bushing system for 7 bucks.
Caliber conversion on the Hornady are dead nuts simple and cheap. Once your dies are set in the bushings, just turn them 1/4 turn take them out and replace them with the new dies. The shellplate never unscrews itself and can be easily removed with a hex key.
I would highly recommend the Hornady Lock n Load Progressive press...plus with the 500 free bullet offer, it will make the press even cheaper to buy. I got 500 139 gr 7mm bullets which is a $177 savings with my press.
Recently, after looking at all the currently available options, I purchased a Hornady Lock n Load Progressive Press and yes, reloading presses have advanced quite a lot in the last few years.
The Hornady press is a master work of simplicity and reliability. My RCBS Piggyback unit worked, but there were always problems with the idiotic paper clip cartridge ejector, paper clip first station cartridge retainer that had to be manually set for each cartridge put into the press, and crappy plastic and spring steel cartridge holders for the other stations that would break every once in a while. Also, slop in die plates, which is true of many presses that still use them. The final straw for me on the RCBS Piggyback was shellplates unscrewing themselves when reloading. I tried many different ways to fix this problem, including new centre bolts and shims and nothing worked.
The Hornady is much cheaper to set up than the Dillon and I can use all of my old Lee and RCBS dies without a problem. Also, the Lock n Load bushing system is masterfully done. You can set your dies up once and never have to set them again. I've kept my RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press, which I use for rifle cartridges, and converted it to the Hornady Lock n Load Bushing system for 7 bucks.
Caliber conversion on the Hornady are dead nuts simple and cheap. Once your dies are set in the bushings, just turn them 1/4 turn take them out and replace them with the new dies. The shellplate never unscrews itself and can be easily removed with a hex key.
I would highly recommend the Hornady Lock n Load Progressive press...plus with the 500 free bullet offer, it will make the press even cheaper to buy. I got 500 139 gr 7mm bullets which is a $177 savings with my press.
BigJakeJ1s
Member
If, as the OP says, he really wants to use his Uniflow PM, then the LCT is probably not going to do it. On the LCT, the dies (and PM) rotate, but on the progressives we're talking about, the shell plates rotate, while the dies and PM stay stationary. The Uniflow (with case-activated linkage) is too heavy for the rotating LCT tool head.
The Hornady LNL AP's PM is a similar design to the Uniflow, but Dillon and Lee are quite different.
Andy
The Hornady LNL AP's PM is a similar design to the Uniflow, but Dillon and Lee are quite different.
Andy
thomas15
Member
Jake, I was thinking the same thing as in my opinion the mechanism that rotates the turret doesn't look robust enough to me at least. But having spent the time responding and reading this thread it seems as if the OP had his mind made up at the start and was looking for enough support to go shopping.
Personally I really don't care one way or the other and I'm sure you don't either but lately over the numerous forums I participate in it seems like the Lee people are trying to out Dillon the Dillon people.
Well I shouldn't be so hard on anyone because at one time I was convinced that a turret press was a huge time saver over a single stage for pistol also. Again in a little over a year I punched out 15k mostly 9mm on one but at the halfway point I realized that I was either going to teach my brother and son to reload or get a progressive.
Looking at the retail price it's not hard understand, at midsouth you can buy:
LCT $114.43
LnL-AP $389.00
All the hand wringing over $35.00 for a shell plate when the LCT has a Rube Goldberg priming system that costs as much as a shell plate but hey what ever makes the individual happy is all that matters.
And if handloader A wants to think that using a slow press makes them a superior to handloader B because they are craftsman and the progressive handloader simply a slug wanting to make a lot of nose at the gun range should be asked to explain why most if not all the top shooters in USPSA, Steel Challange, IDPA, NRA Bullseye, ICORE, on and on handload on progressive presses.
Handloading is to many like a religion.
Personally I really don't care one way or the other and I'm sure you don't either but lately over the numerous forums I participate in it seems like the Lee people are trying to out Dillon the Dillon people.
Well I shouldn't be so hard on anyone because at one time I was convinced that a turret press was a huge time saver over a single stage for pistol also. Again in a little over a year I punched out 15k mostly 9mm on one but at the halfway point I realized that I was either going to teach my brother and son to reload or get a progressive.
Looking at the retail price it's not hard understand, at midsouth you can buy:
LCT $114.43
LnL-AP $389.00
All the hand wringing over $35.00 for a shell plate when the LCT has a Rube Goldberg priming system that costs as much as a shell plate but hey what ever makes the individual happy is all that matters.
And if handloader A wants to think that using a slow press makes them a superior to handloader B because they are craftsman and the progressive handloader simply a slug wanting to make a lot of nose at the gun range should be asked to explain why most if not all the top shooters in USPSA, Steel Challange, IDPA, NRA Bullseye, ICORE, on and on handload on progressive presses.
Handloading is to many like a religion.
Lost Sheep
Member
Sometimes it is also just a matter of personal style. I used Lee Pro-1000 and never got used to monitoring multiple simultaneous operations. I ended every loading session a nervous wreck.
On my turret, my throughput did not suffer when I switched to my Classic Turret and I found loading much more relaxing.
Lost Sheep
thomas15
Member
From the Book of Rube:
"Thou shall not speak unkindly of The Lee Safety Prime System least you upset the brethren, nor the Lee Safety Magnetic Powder Scale nor the Lee Pro-Auto Disk".
Truly sorry, I confess to being an imperfect human.
"Thou shall not speak unkindly of The Lee Safety Prime System least you upset the brethren, nor the Lee Safety Magnetic Powder Scale nor the Lee Pro-Auto Disk".
Truly sorry, I confess to being an imperfect human.
tcoz
Member
A Rube Goldberg contraption is probably a good way to describe it but it's actually a pretty good design once you learn the idiosyncrasies of it. I would have good days when it worked perfectly every single time and other days when I couldn't get into a rhythm and would drop every other primer on the floor.
GW Staar
Member
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- Feb 26, 2009
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From where you've been, you will love your new Lee Turret. But don't look too far from the tree. You will notice first off, that you don't save even one stroke of the handle over using your old equipment.
But you can use your Uniflow so that's a positive.....and nothing is very different except for you can buy turret heads and preload them....another plus!
However, if you are as old as me.....I started in the early '70's, it was the years of wear and tear on ME, that made me look for something.......ah.....better.
Yup, I peeked at the turrets.....but no less wear and tear on me. Then I looked at Progressives.....after the first 5 strokes a progressive finishes a round on EVERY stroke! Now that's a savings of... well....me!
So I got a progressive.....me a Pro2K, but it don't really matter which one....the Pro Chucker wasn't out, and the Hornady can use the Uniflow just fine too...........so your original three on the list would've been mine too.
Reloading 500 in the time and with the effort I used to load 100 .45's is why I still reload today. Stimovsky, sorry I'm late to the party.
The good news is that a turret is still a single stage.....and you always need a single stage for ladder testing or working up new loads or even depriming before a session with a wet tumbler......so you wait another year to flush up and add a progressive....no harm done!
But you can use your Uniflow so that's a positive.....and nothing is very different except for you can buy turret heads and preload them....another plus!
However, if you are as old as me.....I started in the early '70's, it was the years of wear and tear on ME, that made me look for something.......ah.....better.
Yup, I peeked at the turrets.....but no less wear and tear on me. Then I looked at Progressives.....after the first 5 strokes a progressive finishes a round on EVERY stroke! Now that's a savings of... well....me!
So I got a progressive.....me a Pro2K, but it don't really matter which one....the Pro Chucker wasn't out, and the Hornady can use the Uniflow just fine too...........so your original three on the list would've been mine too.
Reloading 500 in the time and with the effort I used to load 100 .45's is why I still reload today. Stimovsky, sorry I'm late to the party.
The good news is that a turret is still a single stage.....and you always need a single stage for ladder testing or working up new loads or even depriming before a session with a wet tumbler......so you wait another year to flush up and add a progressive....no harm done!
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Good points, but at the risk of sounding like a Hornady Fan boy...which I'm not, you need to take that $389 and subtract the $177 in free bullets and you end up with $212 for the press, accessories and 500 bullets...quite a bargain...
thomas15
Member
Actually Palidin7, also to the price of the LCT should be added the cost of the plastic prime system and a plastic powder measure, so the LCT is about $170.00 actually. The LnL AP comes with both for the price I mentioned.
I tried to avoid becoming a salesman for any maker of reloading equipment but you are quite correct. I paid $369.99 including shipping for my LnL AP plus $30.00 for a shell plate so $400.00. I received 500 30 caliber 150g Jacketed bullets but even without that extra it was a good deal. You cannot compare the Hornady powder measure and the primer system to the Lee there is simply no comparison. Plastic vs. metal with micrometer adjustment.
Another thing about loading on a turret press where you are not batch loading is that each pull of the handle requires a different movement of your hands. By that I mean before the first pull, place brass in shell holder, second pull operate primer system. 3rd pull place bullet on brass, 4th you get a break, 1st again remove live round, place new brass in shell holder.
With the progressive (sans the case and bullet feeder) put brass in shell plate, place bullet on brass, pull. Every pull is the same, much faster and faster to get into a rhythm. Economy of motion and a shorter handle pull.
Others have said it you get what you pay for. Personally I don't feel as if I'm experienced enough with many different press systems to be able to tell someone get this or get that. But I have handloaded well over 25,000 rounds pistol over single stage, turret and progressive. How it possibly could be considered an upgrade to go from a SS to a turret at that volume is a argument I would not want to make. But to each his own.
Having said that a friend of mine has a Redding T7 Turret press with the optional on press priming system and that press, while not fast, is one tremendous machine.
I tried to avoid becoming a salesman for any maker of reloading equipment but you are quite correct. I paid $369.99 including shipping for my LnL AP plus $30.00 for a shell plate so $400.00. I received 500 30 caliber 150g Jacketed bullets but even without that extra it was a good deal. You cannot compare the Hornady powder measure and the primer system to the Lee there is simply no comparison. Plastic vs. metal with micrometer adjustment.
Another thing about loading on a turret press where you are not batch loading is that each pull of the handle requires a different movement of your hands. By that I mean before the first pull, place brass in shell holder, second pull operate primer system. 3rd pull place bullet on brass, 4th you get a break, 1st again remove live round, place new brass in shell holder.
With the progressive (sans the case and bullet feeder) put brass in shell plate, place bullet on brass, pull. Every pull is the same, much faster and faster to get into a rhythm. Economy of motion and a shorter handle pull.
Others have said it you get what you pay for. Personally I don't feel as if I'm experienced enough with many different press systems to be able to tell someone get this or get that. But I have handloaded well over 25,000 rounds pistol over single stage, turret and progressive. How it possibly could be considered an upgrade to go from a SS to a turret at that volume is a argument I would not want to make. But to each his own.
Having said that a friend of mine has a Redding T7 Turret press with the optional on press priming system and that press, while not fast, is one tremendous machine.
SwaneeSR
Member
Well that is a bummer. Sorry to hear that.
I own a MEC9000g, a Dillon 550b, a Rockchucker, and added a Lee Classic turret. I acquired the presses in that order.
I love all my presses and I use all of them for different purposes. The LCT is heading to the cabin this summer so I can handload up there. Presses are like girlfriends, you can never have too many. Unless you are married.
My LCT was $99 on Amazon.
I own a MEC9000g, a Dillon 550b, a Rockchucker, and added a Lee Classic turret. I acquired the presses in that order.
I love all my presses and I use all of them for different purposes. The LCT is heading to the cabin this summer so I can handload up there. Presses are like girlfriends, you can never have too many. Unless you are married.
My LCT was $99 on Amazon.
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I've been using a Rock Chucker for years. I don't load in high volume so it's been fine. Recently, though I added a RCBS automatic powder measure/dispenser. I realize you need to verify its accuracy but so far I find it has really improved the reloading process. No one on this post seems to have mentioned using this piece of equipment, I wonder how many people do use these.
thomas15
Member
wgp, I assume you are referring to the RCBS Chargemaster?
The OP stated that he loads for handgun. That type of machine would be slow for handgun compared to a powder measure like an RCBS uniflow. Plus it costs about three times what the OP wants to pay for his press.
The OP stated that he loads for handgun. That type of machine would be slow for handgun compared to a powder measure like an RCBS uniflow. Plus it costs about three times what the OP wants to pay for his press.
jb27
Member
In that case, I'll throw in yet another recommendation for the Lee Classic Turret. I purchased mine as a kit from Kempf gun shop online. They were very helpful in putting the kit together and the price was good. I got mine with everything to load 9mm, 45, and 223.
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