I'm Fed up

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tango2020

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
43
I know this is my first post but I've been reading THR for about 5 months and learning. I reloaded for a few years about 15 years ago for 9mm and 25-06. Long story short I started back reloading about 6 months ago. Now the problem. I am having a hard time getting the 25-06 dialed in. Better with 100 gr bullets but 117 gr or 120s are bad. I know this gun should do better but i'm to the point of giving up on it.:banghead: It's the only rifle I have and as I remember it never grouped well back when I was trying to reload 15 years ago. It is a Ruger M77 25-06 w/ Leupold VX3. Is it possible it's the Rifle or maybe just me. I have loaded w/ H4831SC and VVN 160 using Sierra 87gr, 100gr, 117gr, Nozler 120gr and Hornady 117gr SST. Can't get groups better than 3" at 100yrs and then not even consistent. I'm ready to sell this thing and buy a different rifle. Factory stuff is about 3" groups.Thoughts?
 
I looks like you have a fine hunting rifle--if you have a friend that is a good shot---let him try your rifle---if it is the rifle & you are looking for a target rifle---you will need to change to a different weapon.
Good Luck
 
Three inch groups at one hundred yards and that qualifies it as a good hunting rifle? I think not. The OP is well within the bounds of reason to expect better groups than that. Who wouldn't?

I know this is elementary but, make sure that your scope is screwed on tight, how fast are you shooting, is there oil in the barrel, basically cover the basics. Then if the best you can get is three inches at a hundred I would consider getting rid of.

Also, have you tried another scope?
 
I have tried several different things. I generally wait a few minutes between shots to let the barrel cool. I tried to free float the barrel by putting a thin metal shim between the stock and the plate screw giving me enough room to easily slide a bill between the stock and barrel but didn't seem to help. I'm thinking of taking the Leupold off and buying a Remington 700 SPS. They seem to have a good following. Sorry to complain so much but I guess I'm trying to convince myself it's not my reloading skills that are lacking.
 
In my experience, an inaccurate Ruger is not worth messing with.
I would sell that rifle, or trade it in on something else. Week or two from now, you could have the new rifle all dialed in.
 
When you go to the range--do you go directly to the 100 yd. range.
if so--start at the 25 then 50 then 100--readjust scope as you go.
Make sure your scope is not touching your fixed sight if you have one.
 
Haxby.....What brand and Cal. should I consider? I want something good out to 200 + yards for white tail.
 
I'm guessing that rifle is fairly old. If that's true I would almost bet money you have Copper fouling in the barrel. Buy a good quality foaming copper remover and treat the barrel. Hopefully it will work as well as it did for several of my friends who though they had an inaccurate or shot out barrel.

Welcome to the forum...
 
Tango2020 - Remington, Winchester, Savage, Marlin, Howa. Whatever looks and feels right to you. Might as well stick with 25/06, unless you want something different. 270, 7mm-08, 308 would be fine.
I've owned two crappy Ruger 77's. One I traded off and forgot about. The other one I kept and tried to fix. I know what you mean by fed up.
 
3" sucks.

+1 on all the basic comments,

(barrel cleaning, check crown, look in their with a borescope if you can and see if it's trashed.)

This is a perfect opportunity to trade up to that rifle you've always wanted but couldn't justify the expense. Gunbroker here you come...
 
Sure enough every once in awhile a guy will come across a rifle that just won't shoot very well. It's not common these days with all the computer controlled machining, but back in the 70s and 80s it would happen quite a bit. a stock rifle back then that shot 2" was the norm. a 1" rifle was pretty special and a 3" rifle was still useable.

There might be some things that will fix it if you are clever enough and patient enough. But if the barrel was machined wrong, it's just not gonna work. Before I give up on it though I would check out everything about the scope and the rings and the bases. It's not good enough to just make sure everything is tight. Sometimes a very slight misalignment on the rings puts a torque on the scope tube and that can screw everything up.

But yeah, these days it is the norm to expect less than 1" groups from even cheap rifles. For some people it's not worth the frustration trying to figure out what is wrong with an under-performing rifle. If you're thinking about a new rifle, you've opened up Pandora's Box. So many good ones these days. For pure accuracy, you have to start with Savage bolt action rifles. They are hard to beat. But Tikka, Howa, Weatherby, Marlin all make some incredibly accurate rifles for real cheap prices. A few dollars more will buy you a Browning A bolt that is way pretty. Winchester and Remington still make some decent rifles too but they are not the accuracy kings.

But the real sweet choice if you go to a new rifle and are a reloader is the caliber choices these days. There is still nothing wrong with a 25-06 like you already have. Great cartridge. But if and only if you're a reloader, check out the 25 WSSM cartridge. And Weatherby seemed to saturate the market with cheap and good versions of their budget rifle chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum. They are everywhere these days for not much money. If you want something tamer in 25 caliber there is always the 257 Roberts. Very good cartridge. Of course there's always the good ole .243. Works wonders on deer. Extremely easy to find a supremely accurate load with a 100 gr bullet. Seems like everything works making .243 rounds. I have a lot of rifles to pick from but if I know I'm only hunting deer that day, I will always pick up my .243. It's the only rifle I have that I will take a head shot on a deer that is sitting still. I know I can hit a given spot within a half inch of where I want to hit.

But if you go for a new rifle and you're a handloader don't overlook the old proven rounds. I happen to be a fan of the WSM cartridges but it's hard to beat the old favorites like .270 and .30-06. Which leads to the perfect recommendation for a great deer cartridge that you can easily get incredible groups with. Get a .308 rifle and start working up handloads for it. From 125 gr to 175 grain bullets it is hard to beat a .308 for accuracy and efficiency. A perfect deer rifle and easy to come up with great loads.
 
Glad to know I'm not alone Haxby. I keep leaning toward 7mm mag. Think this will be too much for Deer? Perhaps a Remington 700 SPS in 7 Mag.
 
If you're looking for a new Deer caliber IMO there's not much better than the 30-06. You cam load bullet weights from 110gr all the way up to 220gr and everything in between. If you are looking for less recoil than the 30-06 there's nothing wrong with the .270 or even the .243.
 
i use a remington 700 chambered in 300 win mag. i'll tell ya that it's not as bad as folks say with recoil. mine has a recoil pad on it, and i shoot 180 grain nosler partitions. i used to use a .270 that was given to me, it was too nice for me to continue trekking through the woods with, so i upgraded. as far as the rifle goes, it's awesome to shoot, very very accurate, and it doesn't kill you on the recoil, to be honest it's fairly close to the .270, and the knockdown power is incredible. there is not a lot of meat damage, and if it's a well placed shot (front shoulder) you're definitely not going to have to look too far for your deer. i absolutely love mine!! i bought the buckmasters camo. edition for a little shy of $600. I'll give you some credit on the scope choice as well. I love my leupolds........
 
Explain how you've arrived at the OAL you have the bullets seated too, fL resizing or necking, and do you trim, ream, and chamfer and any other details of how your assembling the loads will be helpful. Do you load for any other high powered rifles with better, or simular results? And really most importantly may be the way you are shooting the rifle. Not meaning to offend you but, are you and accomplished shooter with a high powered rifle. Do you shoot from a good solid platform, may be off of bags.
The optics your using certainly don't raise any red flags. I have Leupold on every HP I own and have never had a problem. But maybe as was mentioned, you might check the rings and bases if you haven't already done so.
Another possible cause could be the barrel may need to be floated. I have had it happen to me with a 700 and the fix was quick and simple.
So don't give up quyet on the rifle. Maybe try another powder too that is nice and slow burning and then seat up closer to the lands too.
 
Pandora's box is right. Is Savage really better in accuracy than a Remington 700? I'm up for changing caliber but I don't want to go down. I think I'm going to keep the Leupold for the new rifle though. I have a cheap Simmons to mount on the Ruger to sell it.
 
It pains me to say this, growing up in the era when Winchesters and Remingtons were the standards that us common folks judged rifles... but .... yes... Savages as a whole are the best there is when it comes to accuracy. A few others can match them, but I doubt any brand can consistently outshoot them on a consistent basis.

But here's one of those "do as I say, not as I do" things. My next rifle? A 7MM-08 in a Browning A Bolt Medallion.
 
7mm Mag is more than you need, but it's one of the most popular deer cartridges around here. Remington 700 should be as good a way to go as any.
 
Seating depth is where I feel the problem lies. The Method I use to determined my Max OAL is.
1) create a shorter dummy cartridge for reference. 2.953"
2) Drop a cleaning rod with a flat jag down the barrel till it touches the tip of the dummy round then I mark the rod at the barrel tip with a fine sharpie.
3) I take a 120gr bullet (example) taped to the end of a pencil and push it into the lands gently the mark using the rod again.
4) measure the distance between the marks and add that to the dummy round measurement.
5) Repeat with different bullets to insure consistency.

Now here is the problem.

With a 120 gr bullet I come up with 3.184 to be touching the lands.

Sierra has a max OAL of 3.250 which would be jammed into the lands in my gun by my measurements.

I load the 120 gr bullets at 3.164 or .020 off the lands

Does this mean my Ruger is short throated?
 
I have used full length sizing mostly but recently tried partial neck sizing and I do trim my brass to 2.484 which is the recommended length.I mostly load in .3 gr increments(4 to 5 round groups) for powder up to Max. I have varied seating depths and it really doesn't like them close to the lands.
 
I also use a tickler and hand measure each load. I also tried cleaning the barrel every 5 shots then shooting a fouling round.....didn't seem to help.
 
Ooops....make that Trickler. I just read that back and it sure didn't sound good.
 
If you are up for a little tinkering, order a glass bed kit from Brownells or Midway. Bed the action and float the barrel. Groups should improve and consistency almost certainly will.

I have an older 77 in 30-06. It, too, needed some attention.

That caliber should be a tack driver and is a very effective hunting round.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top