I'm Fed up

[jgiehl]

If you like the feel of that rifle you could always have it re-barreled. Plus if you like the caliber and are already set up for it too. Just an option.

 

[Sommerled]

I second what critter said. I have a ruger 77 in 223 that was mediocre when I bought it used about 13 years ago.
Brought it to a respected 'smith to get it rebarreled and he suggested that I first bed the action and really clean the barrel. He said, "77's really benefit from bedding the action if it has a wooden stock". It was already free floated. At the least check to see if the screws are tight>

What a difference! 3/4"-1" groups immediately with handloads. Spent a total of less than $10 on the epoxy from the hardware store. Bedding an action is very simple and easy, so don't be afraid to try.

 

[Tango2020]

Bedding the action may be worth a try. I have a smith fairly close by that I trust who has done some other work for me so I'll take it to him and see what he has to say. I may give it one last ditch effort on the bedding.

Any comments on the chamber length? Is it not odd that my OAL touches the lands .066" shorter than the MAX OAL listed? I have re-measured time and time again and I'm sure my methods are sound.

 

[Tango2020]

With a 120 gr bullet I come up with 3.184 to be touching the lands.

Sierra has a max OAL of 3.250 which would be jammed into the lands in my gun by my measurements.

I load the 120 gr bullets at 3.164 or .020 off the lands

 

[mtrmn]

About the 7mm mag/300 winmag. I personally hate rifles I can't put a hundred rounds through comfortably. I'd go with an old proven caliber as well, with .308 at the top of the list. If you can't find a tack-driver load for a .308 the first week, you may want to consider taking up another hobby, providing the gun's not a total wreck. And the other good thing about the Savage-cheaper than those other brands as well as being deadnuts accurate. W/.308 I load 150gr Nosler ballistic tips over 42 gr IMR4895. Can't help you w/your present caliber as I've never loaded it, but it sounds from your posts that you SHOULD have found a sweet spot SOMEWHERE by now.

 

[41 Mag]

Any comments on the chamber length? Is it not odd that my OAL touches the lands .066" shorter than the MAX OAL listed? I have re-measured time and time again and I'm sure my methods are sound.

The listed OAL is usually the longest a round can be and still fit in factory magazines, but doesn't necessarily mean that it will fit your chamber.

A couple of things I would try,
1st, as suggested I would lay money that you have some fouling issues in your barrel. The 25-06 I have shoots, well to be honest it is probably the most accurate rifle I have ever owned. That said, it's good for about 40 rounds or so max then it opens up to pie plate sized groups. It only takes about 15 minutes of scrubbing to get it back to one hole groups. I would suggest following the above mentioned method and using the foaming cleaner, followed by some JB's Bore Paste.

Once you have it cleaned and KNOW it's clean, I recommend giving RL-19 or 22 a try. Don't ask me why, but out of half a dozen or so 25-06's I have messed with, these two powders shot extremely well over others we tried.

I have a Ruger 77 tang safety in .280 Rem. I tried just about every other powder I had in it with a variety of bullets and weights. Finally hauled out some RL-19, and in about 10 rounds had it shooting one hole groups at 100. this was then followed up with three different bullets. Don't know why but it's worth a try.

 

[Tango2020]

Thanks for the input. This gives me some things to try. I clean the barrel regularly but perhaps not well enough so I'll try the method you described. With that and having my gun smith bed the action perhaps I can get some satisfaction. I'll let you guy know what the results are.

 

[Eb1]

My .26-06 shoots just great with the 115 grain Combined Technology bullets. I shoot the Winchester Supreme Silver Tips. Basically a Nosler BT with some type of sudo moly coating. The gun will shoot 3 touching, and under an inch @ 200 yards with this factory ammo basically every time I have taken the gun out. Last time I hunted with the gun, I killed two deer @ 300 yards from a 15' ladder stand. They were standing next to each other. One was facing me, and the other was quartering me.

To me I find that it isn't worth the money of effort to improve the load for this rifle. I get great accuracy, and killing power with this combination.

Perhaps you should purchase a box of this ammo, and give your gun a try. If the groups improve then you can buy the bullets where you purchase your other reloading supplies, and then continue your research.

Good luck.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Did you check for Copper fouling like I mentioned in Post #10?

Mine you, a lot of the time you can't see the fouling until you see all the Blue on the patch when cleaning the barrel. Three rifles this year alone have been saved this way.

 

[Tango2020]

Ok.... Took it to the Smith today and he said it was most likely going to be copper fouling. (Thanks archangel) I always cleaned it with Hoppes but in my ignorance knew nothing about copper fouling. He said he would soak it with Butch's bore bright, let it set a while then clean it till the patches ran white. Said it could take days. Over all he is going to clean it, bed the action and do a trigger job on it all for $100 bucks. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Over all he is going to clean it, bed the action and do a trigger job on it all for $100 bucks. I'll keep you guys posted.

Nothing wrong with a trigger job if done correctly and bedding the action but I'm betting most of the accuracy increase will come from cleaning the Copper out of the barrel.

 

[Sunray]

"...all for $100 bucks..." Something ain't right about that. Just the glass bedding can cost that much.
"...cleaned it with Hoppes..." Using endless patches? Stop up the muzzle, fill the barrel with solvent and leave it for 24 hours. Dispose of the fouled solvent correctly(as in not down a drain) and run a few patches through. If it doesn't come clean, repeat the soaking.
Once it's clean, pick one bullet weight and powder and work up a load. Use 3.150" OAL.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Tango doubt its you .sounds like a barrel twist thing, figure out what that is first ,then you'll know what bullet it calls for.

Quarter bores can be picky. Don't sell it til you know what the problem is. What you learn making this one shoot you will use the rest of your life. Barrel twist.1st The heavy barrel ruger 77s 25-06 was set up for light bullets. I wouldnt be surprised if there are 2 or 3 different twist rates.

 

[petrey10]

tango.... definitely figure out the twist rate because like said above it makes a big difference... below is a starting point for each twist rate

.257 9" For bullets heavier than 100 gr.
10" For bullets up to 105 gr.
12" For bullets up to 90 gr.
13"* For bullets up to 80 gr.
14"* For bullets up to 70 gr.



and if you do ever think about changing guns please look for a Savage Long Action type rifle... they are very customizable and very accurate... you could have any caliber you want but if it was me I would stick with 25-06... i love the caliber

 

[918v]

Three inch groups at one hundred yards and that qualifies it as a good hunting rifle? I think not. The OP is well within the bounds of reason to expect better groups than that. Who wouldn't?

If you complain to Ruger about that, they will tell you their standard is 3" at 50 yards. I used to know a guy who had a Ruger 7mm Mag that shot under an inch at 100 yards but that is unusual.

 

[mtrmn]

Quote:"Quarter bores can be picky."

Come to think of it, the only 2 rifles I've ever seen that actually tumbled bullets were both .243's. (Well...that's almost "quarterbore") The owners changed bullet weights and the problem went away.

 

[Tango2020]

It's true I do not know what my twist rate is on my rifle but i'll check it as soon as I get it back. That's good info Petrey. The gun did always perform better with a 100gr bullet but I always want to chase a 120gr load for White Tail but I now think that is really not needed. 100 gr is plenty. And I'm considering replacing my 26-06 with a 7 Mag. I think I'm confusing myself.
A guy I work with has a Savage model 110 in 7 Mag with a Simmons Scope on it he wants $450 for. Only 5 rounds through it. I think I'm going to take him up on it but keep the 25-06 and work out the issues.

 

[Eb1]

The .25-06 is the best whitetail rifle I can think of, JMO, and shooting the 115 grain Combined Tech bullet out of it is just out standing. I would like to give the 100 grain triple shock a test, but these ballistic tips just do the job so dang well, and are so accurate.

 

[mtrmn]

Around here, if you see a rifle for sale it will likely be a 7 mag or 300 mag because people think they want this huge overkill for whitetails but when they get em they hate to pull the trigger due to the recoil. By all means try it for yourself but give me something I can enjoy shooting. Your mileage may vary.

 

[fol4321]

have you tried not cleaning it. i got 77s in 270 ,30-06 7mm rem mag 300 win mag, 338 and 243 i never clean the barrels the all shoot fine.what about some trigger work.

 

[gamestalker]

How are you benching it, sand bags, lead sled, or other? You said you shimmed the stock screw. That right there makes me uneasy because it changes the seating of the action be an unknown degreee. The better way to float that barrel is to work the forearm stock down with some sand paper or other wood working tools. I realize this was an after the fact action you took, but it may have only worsened the problem or caused another problem.
I've had a lot of experience with #1's and M-77's and both have always performed well, certainly better than 3" groups at 100 yds..

 

[Peter M. Eick]

My 25/06 sendero is the same way. It does not like particular bullets. I thought it was the load until I got a Ruger #1 in 25/06 and it liked certain loads that the sendero did not.

I would follow up with what has been said above, but I also keep in mind that the 25/06 is a round that is not known to be forgiving. I can dial in loads with the sendero that are 3/4" groups at 100 yrds for 5 shots. It can be done.

 

[Tango2020]

I got my Ruger back from the Smith and he bedded the action and lightened the trigger to a 2lb pull but he said the barrel was full of copper. I loaded 5 diffirent charges with a 100 gr sierra. Shot 4 round test groups and 2 groups shot within a 1" group. the others were just over an inch. An amaizing diffirence. I think the copper was the main issue. I'm going to test some 117 gr bullets next but I now have faith in my rifle again so I'm feeling better. P.S while I was waiting I bought a Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. I needed another horse in the stable anyway.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

I'm surprised it took all of page #1 for someone to suggest checking the bedding on the barrel and action. That would be suspect numero uno for me. The fouling would be my next notion.

Let us know how this gun shoots when you get it back from the smith.

 

[P-32]

Let us know how this gun shoots when you get it back from the smith

aaaah he did.

Sorry Maple I could not help myself.