Importance of having a routine status check every time!

[strambo]

For the 1st time in almost 20 years of carry, I grabbed the gun from the multi-vault to holster it and it had a round chambered but no magazine inserted!

At the Gunsite 250 course we were taught to always press check the chamber, then drop the magazine and check to see it's fully loaded. (I've been to other courses, but they didn't teach to also check the mag every time)

I grabbed the pistol out of the safe, press checked, then depressed the mag release to check the mag and was surprised to find no mag!

It was sitting inside the safe. After I dry-fired the last time I must have seated the mag, chambered a round, dropped the mag and topped it off, then absent-mindedly set the gun in the safe and mag beside it!

Anyway, that is why it makes sense to have a routine and always check everytime you pick up the gun. Not only does it help to prevent accidents, it also prevents unwittingly walking around with an unloaded gun.

I've probably done that thousands of times w/o forgetting to re-insert the magazine...

 

[Phaedrus/69]

A good reminder. One time a month or two ago I was "in a hurry" (the time you usually get into trouble!) and managed to leave the house with my Ruger LCR in the holster but unloaded! I had been headed to a local cafe to have lunch and was there for about 20 minutes when I got that did-I-leave-the-water-running? feeling. It then occurred to me that I didn't specifically remember either loading or checking the cylinder. So I ducked into the bathroom and locked the door, then pulled my revolver- yup, unloaded! Lucky for me I did do one smart thing- I had an eight round speed strip loaded and in my back pocket. That enabled me to load the cylinder although it only left three rounds to reload. Obviously I survived, but it would have been pretty awkward to pull the gun and get a CLICK!

 

[Plan2Live]

So maybe loaded chamber indicators aren't such a bad idea after all.

I agree with the idea of a routine. Mine includes saying out loud, "this gun is clear" or "this gun is now loaded". As for the press check, I was taught to check to make sure the magazine was fully loaded, insert the mag, rack the slide, holster the pistol, eject the magazine with the gun safely holstered, check to make sure the top round is missing from the magazine, top off and re-insert the magazine. Follow that up with a hand sweep to make sure no clothing became entangled and you are good to go. When carrying my XDm I add the step of placing a finger on the loaded chamber indicator before holstering.

My biggest routine blunder was choosing to carry a semi that I usually keep loaded, chambered and available at home. I got dressed, threaded on my holster, clipped on my mag pouch, added a cover garment and headed out the door. Without the pistol! So my routine was changed to laying out the belt, holster, mag pouch AND gun all in one pile before I start gearing up. Hasn't happened since adding that step.

 

[sota]

Personally, I dedicate one gun as my "Go To" gun in the safe. It's always loaded and I don't mess with it, except the VERY few times a year it comes out to the range. That way I can't have an incident like the OP.

 

[strambo]

Personally, I dedicate one gun as my "Go To" gun in the safe. It's always loaded and I don't mess with it, except the VERY few times a year it comes out to the range. That way I can't have an incident like the OP.

Well, you could...after one of those few range times if you don't check and that was the point. I mean, nothing like this happened to me either, the first 18+ years I have been carrying.

I think a quick check routine done every time is superior to just loading a gun and then leaving it alone. The routine covers you on those rare times when something is different than normal.

The mag check we were taught is also tactile, drop the mag, press the top round down with your finger to check the tension feels right for fully loaded and the weight of the magazine seems right. I also visually check the numbered "15" hole in the mag since it is daylight. At night, your worse case would be a mostly loaded mag.

I don't advocate constant OCD press-checking. If you've checked it when first picking it up that is all that is needed.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I tend to take a stick-in-the-mud attitude about such things. The less you coonfinger working guns the better, IMHO. Put them in the condition you want them and leave them alone till it's time for cleaning/practice/whatever. I keep the pocket lint blown out of my 642 and its pocket holster, and make sure the laser works every time I change pants, and change out ammo every so often (speedloaders too). Otherwise ...

 

[herrwalther]

Even on handguns that have loaded chamber indicators, I still do press checks whenever I pick up a firearm.

 

[MedWheeler]

This is me as well:

I tend to take a stick-in-the-mud attitude about such things. The less you coonfinger working guns the better, IMHO. Put them in the condition you want them and leave them alone till it's time for cleaning/practice/whatever.

(written above by Fred Fuller.)

 

[strambo]

This is me as well:

(written above by Fred Fuller.)

Right, but then what is your procedure to 100% ensure they actually went back the way you want 'em after said cleaning/practice? Just trust yourself that you remembered to reload it properly?

A 5 second status check every time you pick a weapon up takes away the human element.

 

[Fred Fuller]

The only time I handle the weapon is when I change pants. Or practice etc. It gets checked on those occasions.

 

[bainter1212]

I press check it and drop the mag to ensure it is loaded.

One time a few months ago I did this.....and found a small piece of linty paper stuck to the back of the top round in the mag! Somehow some pocket detrietus made it up there. The paper was blocking the primer.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I finger my guns all the time and many guns in my home are loaded and hidden like in drop out panels under a drawer and other places I won't describe...yer only about 3 steps from a gun in my home that is ready to go...no children, no guests.

When I touch a gun, any gun, even if I just watched the guy at the LGS check it and remove the mag/lock the slide I treat it like it is loaded. I never allow the muzzle to cover anything once it hits my hands, I don't touch the trigger until *I* drop the mag, check the chamber with a finger and lock the slide.

It's old school and it's obnoxious as hell...folks think I'm dissing them when they hand me an unloaded gun they check in front of my very eyes and I check it again while handling it like a loaded gun. They say you only screw up once and I'm hoping to make it to the Grave without doing that with a firearm.

So far - so good.

VooDoo

 

[herrwalther]

It's old school and it's obnoxious as hell...folks think I'm dissing them when they hand me an unloaded gun they check in front of my very eyes and I check it again while handling it like a loaded gun. They say you only screw up once and I'm hoping to make it to the Grave without doing that with a firearm.

I do the same thing. Anyone who thinks it is obnoxious is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Blue Thunder]

I have done press checks in the past, but since I have a set of G-19's that have LCI's on them and I trust that. My 1911 I do a press check on it prior to carrying. Revolvers are easy open cylinder and check for holes... I carry the G-19's almost exclusively except when wearing my Tux and that is a Colt Python 6 inch in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster with two Dade Speedloaders in a pouch just in front of the tie down for the holster.

 

[Zach S]

I check before it goes in the holster, every day.

There have been times that the chamber or magwell was empty.

One reasons I got rid of my compact 1911s is I got to the range one day with a pistols, including my 5" EDC, but the two spare mags on my belt were for compacts... Discovered my brainfart after my tap, rack, click... Amazing how loud that is when you expect a boom.

So maybe loaded chamber indicators aren't such a bad idea after all.

I don't use or trust them. At one point my glock was gunked up so bad the LCI still stuck out at slide lock.

 

[Plan2Live]

I don't use or trust them. At one point my glock was gunked up so bad the LCI still stuck out at slide lock.

sounds like a gunk issue, not a LCI issue. Why are you running a gunned up gun?

 

[Zach S]

Because I spend more time shooting than cleaning. Besides, how often do most shooters go further than the basic field strip? I would have to look, but I would bet the manual that came with my glock gives instructions on how to remove the recoil spring and barrel, but reccomends an armorer for anything beyond that.

 

[MedWheeler]

Strambo asks me:

Right, but then what is your procedure to 100% ensure they actually went back the way you want 'em after said cleaning/practice? Just trust yourself that you remembered to reload it properly?

Yes. It might not work for you, but it works for me.

I make it a point to store any gun that might be carried for defense loaded and ready. I had an incident in which a gun from which I'd remove the magazine at home went out on the road with me without said magazine.

No more.

A 5 second status check every time you pick a weapon up takes away the human element.

True, but it also adds five seconds of redundant "coonfingering" (which actually adds a different human element.)

 

[strambo]

Medwheeler,

Of course there is no right or wrong way. It seems like you have just shifted your status check back to the point of storage from the point of carry. So, you are checking every time...before you put it away correct? As long as there is a routine that is kept any routine should work. I prefer to check as it's going in the holster just because for me, my put away point may have been quite a while ago.

I appreciate the discussion, any mindful approach will work. I think too many gun owners just assume they know the status of their guns w/o some sort of process.

 

[MedWheeler]

Strambo, I do indeed check that a magazine is in place before holstering (assuming it's an autoloader.) Since my magazines have fingertip extensions, it's easily done, even by feel.

But, yes, I chamber-check them before stowing them away, usually by ever-so-slightly retracting the slide (my PF9 and P32 don't need this, as the case rim can be seen through the extractor's mount.) My EDC (said PF9) isn't chamber-checked quite so often. It goes on me, then off at night. Repeat next day. Only interruptions of that routine is after a practice shoot.

It's not often that I carry a revolver, but, as above, case rims are visible in front of the recoil shield.

 

[Warp]

I don't always check as my carry guns stay in a holster and checking would require additional handling of a loaded gun.

But I don't draw the carry gun from the big/storage safe.

Once in awhile I will check just for the peace of mind though.

 

[poolingmyignorance]

I carry condition one. When I get home I remove from holster, drop the mag, rack the slide, (when I'm feeling cool I catch the bullet) then reload the round in the magazine. Visually inspect the is no round chambered, reinsert mag,and press check to confirm the is no round chambered before stowing it for the night.
It seems redundant,but I believe it will help advert accident.
How people shot them selves while "cleaning" always mystified me.

 

[strambo]

I'd advise to stop trying to catch the bullet. That has you focusing on a parlor trick not the important task of clearing your gun. I saw an ND right next to me as a contractor in Iraq for this exact reason, the guy almost got fired except it was into the clearing barrel.

Whenever you handle it for clearing, status checking etc. do it slow and mindful. Complacency is what leads to NDs and trying to do tricks is like complacency times 10.

 

[poolingmyignorance]

I'd advise to stop trying to catch the bullet. That has you focusing on a parlor trick not the important task of clearing your gun. I saw an ND right next to me as a contractor in Iraq for this exact reason, the guy almost got fired except it was into the clearing barrel.

Whenever you handle it for clearing, status checking etc. do it slow and mindful. Complacency is what leads to NDs and trying to do tricks is like complacency times 10.

Anything is possible, I suppose it'd be my luck one time I might forget to drop the magazine first... though I'm hoping rule No.2 (booger hook off the bang switch) helps with that too.

But I could go on a lark about how leaving the ejected bullet on the floor might create an unsafe tripping hazard resulting in a ND too, if I wanted to split hairs. Thanks for the tip.

 

[strambo]

I only brought it up because I have actually seen it happen more than once, if it was just "what if" conjecture I wouldn't have said anything.

That said, another reason for more NDs in the military or military settings is they make you squeeze the trigger into the clearing barrel to ensure it is clear. This is when people rushing the procedure (or the guy trying to catch the round) get a surprise BANG! Amazingly, the bang can stress them out so much soldiers have then retracted the slide to "clear" the chamber (watching a live round eject) and got another bang (or 2) before finally dropping the magazine! I know it sounds absurd, but stress does funny things to people. I could go on about how the military is training soldiers to clear improperly according to a pyschology of learning perspective and how the subconscious learns new neural pathways contributing to the NDs...but that would be a long post.

You wouldn't get a bang, just a gun with a round chambered that you meant to have chamber empty. As long as you still follow the 4 rules handling the gun when you "think" the chamber is empty it still won't be an issue.

I just always clear slow and methodical because I know it is complacency and/or momentary loss of attention that causes NDs...not a lack of training or experience. As a matter of fact, more training/experience makes more complacency likely!