In Defense of the "Heel Release" Magazine

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9mmepiphany said:
I'm going to gather from this that you haven't attended a defensive pistol class/training. After being instructed to not point guns at other people and keeping your finger off the trigger when not shooting, the next issue instructors have to bring up to students is to let their mags fall to the ground when reloading.

If you have a gun who's magazine can't be dropped on the ground and remain reliable, it's time to pick a new gun
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Does ex military 95B and LE count? Too many action movies for you I think (joking) . Looks cool and gets "tactical" shooting lessons though so whatever. Maybe those "instructors" should also them to just throw the gun on the ground or at the target when the last magazine runs dry..... its "tactical". If it breaks just buy a new gun because its junk.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Non-drop free magazines are not such a bad thing when they are $150 each.......:D
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Are they really up to that expensive?

It might be time to sell some of my extras.

The P7 magazine is the most rugged magazine I've ever seen. I've had mine since they were introduce to the US and never had any issues with them...I did find a bent base plate on one once after a training class. I've seen them stepped on numerous times and even seen one run over by a truck (on a dirt path) and they still looked new and worked great. I've seen many 1911 magazines end up in trash bins after treatment like that
 
9mmepiphany said:
It is a bit quirky, but it's superior performance outweighs that quirkiness. I carried one as a duty gun for a while and never had an issue qualifying with it.
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Performance might not outweigh the replacement cost though. P7 is too valuable for carry. Might as well carry a Korth or a Bar of gold. At that point you just pay the attacker off and send him on his way.

"Hey man... I would defend myself but this gun is worth over 5 grand. How about I pay you $3000 to go home."

Bad Guy..... "Right on my Brother! God bless you!"
 
9mmepiphany said:
Are they really up to that expensive?

It might be time to sell some of my extras.

The P7 magazine is the most rugged magazine I've ever seen. I've had mine since they were introduce to the US and never had any issues with them...I did find a bent base plate on one once after a training class. I've seen them stepped on numerous times and even seen one run over by a truck (on a dirt path) and they still looked new and worked great. I've seen many 1911 magazines end up in trash bins after treatment like that
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Heres one for $135 + $5 shipping Buy It Now
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-H-...b-ed54-402b-b18b-c93e7707c6bd&redirect=mobile

Looks like the M13 mags are going for around $250.......:what:Not technically supposed to be selling those on PCbay, though.
 
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9mmepiphany said:
I'm sort of surprised your instructors didn't make you drop your mags, they certainly did in my academy
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Yeah... we had to hit the target as well. Different times I guess. I am sure now they are teaching guys to do a tactical mag ejection into the perps forehead during a roundhouse kick.
 
This is my favorite mag release. Astra 300s and 600s have these. You can press the release with your thumb while you index finger pulls on the tab. or you can just push the tab and the mag falls clear of its own weight. Simple, easy and instinctive. Only drawback, not very handy for the lefties.
 

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tark said:
This is my favorite mag release. Astra 300s and 600s have these. You can press the release with your thumb while you index finger pulls on the tab. or you can just push the tab and the mag falls clear of its own weight. Simple, easy and instinctive. Only drawback, not very handy for the lefties.
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The thought of having to do a quick reload under fire with an Astra "Pipewrench" is enough to give me shudders......:D
 
starling said:
Performance might not outweigh the replacement cost though. P7 is too valuable for carry. Might as well carry a Korth or a Bar of gold. At that point you just pay the attacker off and send him on his way.

"Hey man... I would defend myself but this gun is worth over 5 grand. How about I pay you $3000 to go home."

Bad Guy..... "Right on my Brother! God bless you!"
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it’s expensive to shoot someone, so carry the best gun and expect not to get it back

Carry Carry insurance people!
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Heres one for $135 buy it now-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-H-...b-ed54-402b-b18b-c93e7707c6bd&redirect=mobile

Looks like the M13 mags are going for around $250.......:what:
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I have a VP70 mag with a cracked steel floorplate because I let it slip when I missed the mag pouch. They make great steel mags but nothing is indestructable. Baseplates bend/break, feedlips get dinged, tubes get dented, sand/dirt whatever. I guess if you have an endless supply of magazines for throwaway purposes you could do it.

Yeah... take care of those P7 mags.... Litterally becoming worth thier weight in gold. I think P7 is a sweet design but I would never carry one. Just take it out to look at once in a while. Talk like Hans Gruber or something.
 
starling said:
I have a VP70 mag with a cracked steel floorplate because I let it slip when I missed the mag pouch. They make great steel mags but nothing is indestructable. Baseplates bend/break, feedlips get dinged, tubes get dented, sand/dirt whatever. I guess if you have an endless supply of magazines for throwaway purposes you could do it.

Yeah... take care of those P7 mags.... Litterally becoming worth thier weight in gold. I think P7 is a sweet design but I would never carry one. Just take it out to look at once in a while. Talk like Hans Gruber or something.
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mark my word… HK will come out with a P7 remake!
 
9mmepiphany said:
I'm going to gather from this that you haven't attended a defensive pistol class/training. After being instructed to not point guns at other people and keeping your finger off the trigger when not shooting, the next issue instructors have to bring up to students is to let their mags fall to the ground when reloading.

If you have a gun who's magazine can't be dropped on the ground and remain reliable, it's time to pick a new gun
Click to expand...

There are absolutely times where speed of a reload is the critical thing, like needing more ammo while there are still bad guys to shoot and all you're armed with is a pistol. The other common scenario is the reload with retention, where a heel release isn't an impediment.

The downside of dropping mags is that they are pretty much the most delicate part of a autoloading pistol and the most likely to cause problems on any modern, well made pistol.

BSW
 
Mark_Mark said:
mark my word… HK will come out with a P7 remake!
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I think the era of HK coming out with ergonomically superior pistols that don't sell is over. It pretty much died with the USP*.

BSW

*Nothing really inovatative engineering wise but a good assemblage of things invented by other people that could actually be manufactured as a price point that was competitive with the competition.
 
CapnMac said:
I'm not a huge fan of the tiny heel release on my Colt 1903--but, that's probably as much from it being stiff and small.

The one on my West German SIG P220 is much more ergonomic. It's only drawback is finding magazines that latch that way.
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Pretty sure any of the .45 P220 mags with the steel baseplate will work with either the "Euro" or "Continental" style catches. Fortunately, my 9mm heel- catch P220 came with 4 spares, cuz man those are made of unicorn horn!
index-39.jpg
 
Mark_Mark said:
mark my word… HK will come out with a P7 remake!
Click to expand...

Maybe if military contracts run out. Honestly... I dont think a P7 remake would even sell well for very long. Its just too goofy. We live in a day where a manual thumb safety is too complicated for a lot of shooters. P7 was not a huge seller in the 90s either. Be nice to see them bring back some sort of gas system pistol but I dont see it. Maybe CZ. I was suprised when Walther did.... not sure what the sales figures are on those.

I wouldnt sell your P7. They are like the new Colt Python. leave it to your kids and they might be able to buy a house someday. Any of those old HKs are pure collector guns now. VP70z are still affordable because nobody wants them now.... or ever.
 
starling said:
Maybe if military contracts run out. Honestly... I dont think a P7 remake would even sell well for very long. Its just too goofy. We live in a day where a manual thumb safety is too complicated for a lot of shooters. P7 was not a huge seller in the 90s either. Be nice to see them bring back some sort of gas system pistol but I dont see it. Maybe CZ. I was suprised when Walther did.... not sure what the sales figures are on those.

I wouldnt sell your P7. They are like the new Colt Python. leave it to your kids and they might be able to buy a house someday. Any of those old HKs are pure collector guns now. VP70z are still affordable because nobody wants them now.... or ever.
Click to expand...

I owned a VP70 for about 6 months a long time ago. The stapler I use to hang targets has a better trigger than that pistol did.

BSW
 
starling said:
Maybe if military contracts run out. Honestly... I dont think a P7 remake would even sell well for very long. Its just too goofy. We live in a day where a manual thumb safety is too complicated for a lot of shooters. P7 was not a huge seller in the 90s either. Be nice to see them bring back some sort of gas system pistol but I dont see it. Maybe CZ. I was suprised when Walther did.... not sure what the sales figures are on those.

I wouldnt sell your P7. They are like the new Colt Python. leave it to your kids and they might be able to buy a house someday. Any of those old HKs are pure collector guns now. VP70z are still affordable because nobody wants them now.... or ever.
Click to expand...
You made my point… a revolver is completely a compromise to a to a auto loader but is as popular then ever! The P7 could fill a nitch for safety gun people and security group. The most returned gun after the KooFlu was was a Glock, people can’t can’t have a safety.

as for the VP70z, have you shot it… the trigger pull is 25lbs… you gotta really like history to buy a VP70
 
I had a P7 and did not find the heel catch to be a liability. I wish my pocket pistols had heel catches for Bill Jordan carry. (He carried a small gun in his LEFT pants pocket.) That will drop the magazine of my P32; haven't tried others.

Trivia: We call the heel catch "European" and the side button "American" but Mr Browning designed guns with heel catches until 1909 and the first button catch I know of is on a 1900 Luger.
 
Jim Watson said:
I had a P7 and did not find the heel catch to be a liability. I wish my pocket pistols had heel catches for Bill Jordan carry. (He carried a small gun in his LEFT pants pocket.) That will drop the magazine of my P32; haven't tried others.

Trivia: We call the heel catch "European" and the side button "American" but Mr Browning designed guns with heel catches until 1909 and the first button catch I know of is on a 1900 Luger.
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we just find odd things European and cool things American. Heel release remind me of a ATM machine
 
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