In support of a National FOID (Firearms Owner Identification Card)

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Help me clear my mind on this proposal. If there are holes in it, please tell me where. On its surface it seems like a workable idea that preserves 2nd Amendment rights, privacy and helps (helps, mind you) keep firearms out of the hands of those who have legitimately lost those rights.

Probably been said already, but here it comes again:

Here's the hole: Anyone who cannot be trusted with arms after adjudication and has not been executed, belongs in prison, or in an institution, or under 100% guardianship. No "FOID" card needed anymore.

You're welcome.

Woody

 

[Lost Sheep]

What about folks who don't get the card? They don't fall under the 2nd? If they are required to get the card regardless of whether they own a gun or not, then it becomes a national ID as someone else mentioned. So, it is bad on both counts.



We already have NICS. It has flaws but it can and should fixed. Why do we need another database? NICS data isn't retained. (at least that's the way it is suppose to be).

Thanks for responding, Onward Allusion.

You don't actually have to GET or carry the card. Everyone gets one. You don't have to apply it just IS yours. I thought post #1 was clear on that.

I believe NICS flaws should be easier to find and fix under this idea.

I think the thread has probably run its course, though. The comments are getting redundant and the difficulty of reviewing the entire thread before weighing in appears now to be a bar to productive input.

For additional fun, I direct your attention to this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=697024
which, unfortunately is closed but brings up some good points, too.

Lost Sheep

 

[JRWhit]

But who gets to decide who is dangerous?

Many of those in the Senate and in the Congress, and many of those in the FBI, DEA, and BATF would probably consider many of the folks on this forum to be "dangerous".
They would probably consider anyone who wants an "assault rifle" to be dangerous.
Or anyone who speaks out against the government to be dangerous.

I'll do it.

 

[abajaj11]

Anyone who still thinks a national FOID is a "reasonable compromise" with those who would enslave us, please check this out:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=698024

 

[Tcruse]

"Here's the hole: Anyone who cannot be trusted with arms after adjudication and has not been executed, belongs in prison, or in an institution, or under 100% guardianship. No "FOID" card needed anymore."

+1

 

[tacmedicp94]

This is how I read it. Everyone upon reaching a certain age gets a number. For gods sake stop calling it a FOID card. A simple phone call with your number gets a yes or no response as to whether you can own a firearm. Your name would not be associated with the number at all. Things such as felony convictions, violent crimes, mental issues etc, get you moved to the "no" list. Much like the NCIS checks are today. In this case EVERYONE gets a number, whether you own guns or not. Even OBama and Feinstein get a number. There will never be any info added to the number as to the number or types of firearms owned.
Do I have this right?

On the surface this sounds ok. But who determines what kicks you in the "no" category. Who decides that besides the restrictions we already have, felons etc., that my 3 speeding tickets in the past month obviously make me a danger to society, so I should not be allowed to own firearms?

There is just too much potential for abuse from a left leaning government. Also without some sort of picture ID, whats to keep someone who has been moved to the "no" list from just spouting out a random set of numbers and hope that the number they just made up is able to purchase firearms? Without a picture ID how does the seller know the number you just gave them is actually yours? This moves us back into the national ID argument.

So, on the surface, once you move past the "FOID" name the idea sounds OK. But, if you really start to look at it a little deeper, it seems that there would be too many ways for abuse both by the government or by an individual to make the idea feasible.

 

[PavePusher]

May I please see your government -issued Book Owners Identification Card? Your Warrant Required for Searches Card? Your Freedom from Slavery Card?

'Nuff said.

 

[brickeyee]

As soon as we have a first amendment license that (like broadcasters) newspapers must shoe they operate is in the 'public interest' as determined by the bureaucrats.

 

[Lost Sheep]

As soon as we have a first amendment license that (like broadcasters) newspapers must shoe they operate is in the 'public interest' as determined by the bureaucrats.

Actually, all broadcasters using the public airways do have a certificate on file (abailable for inspection by the public) certifying that they operate in the public interest. It is renews periodically and a public comment period goes along with that renewal.

Was I just baited?

In any event, while the analogy is not quite perfect your point is well taken.

Lost Sheep

 

[armoredman]

You don't actually have to GET or carry the card. Everyone gets one. You don't have to apply it just IS yours.

Let me correct that for you...

You don't actually have to GET or carry a card, because everyone gets the right direct from the Second Amendment. You don't have to apply for it, it just IS yours.

That's the way it should read. Any government permission slip instantly destroys the right and devolves it to a government controlled privilege, no matter what clever phraseology or name is applied.

 

[brickeyee]

Newspapers do not have a 'public interest' requirement was the point.

 

[Lost Sheep]

(refer to posts 109,110, 112 to see the history of this conversation)

Oops You are correct. Newspapers are an apt comparison.

Sorry about mis-reading your post.

But the thread is not about getting permission to exercise a right. It is about a more efficient and fair way for our government to administer the way it infringes on that right (and to more tightly limit the way government infringes).

Lost Sheep

 

[NWCP]

No national cards please. The Second Amendment and a clean record is all I should need to purchase and carry a firearm. If I'm stark raving mad it is the duty of my doctor to report that fact to the NCIS crowd. The same goes for felons and drug addicts. They should be in a data base that is part of the procedure. As to the weapon I'm purchasing, that should be none of their business. If you read the Federalist Papers regarding the Second Amendment we should be able to openly purchase an MP5, AR16, or a Thompson without special permission. Citizens were originally allowed to be armed with the same weapons as the military carried. How else were they supposed to prevent a tyrannical government from confiscating their weapons and making them subjects once again?

 

[thump_rrr]

I'll preface this by saying that since I'm from north of the border I'm an outsider looking in.

For those that oppose some sort of FOID as Lost Sheep laid out in Post #1 since the 2nd amendment is your FOID card I ask this question.

Can you walk into a store anywhere in America and put your money on the counter and walk out with a firearm without any further action by the seller?

The answer is NO since you must pass a NICS.

What if it was a simple swipe card?
Swipe the card, get a green light buy whatever you like, no inputing what you purchased, no phone call, no waiting.
What if it eliminated online sales going to an FFL and had the firearm ship directly to your home saving you fees?

We can access our money from anywhere in the world with a debit card 24/7/365 why can't your file be accessed the same way to give a simple Prohibited, Non Prohibited status.

In Canada, where we don't have the rights you have in the USA, we have a licensing system which we show our card, pay for our purchase and walk out with our firearm (NonRestricted Long Gun).

We can also purchase online from either a business or a private individual and have our firearms mailed directly to our homes.

The point is that you are already regulated by NICS so delusions of an absolute right given to by God and affirmed by the 2nd amendment are just that, a delusion.

 

[LNK]

Why is it that every day now there is a new "heres my new wonderful idea to help eliminate my rights" thread?

How much time do you need reading this board to know we have all had enough, the line in the sand has been drawn? We will not accept any more compromises of our rights! Stop the appeasement of those that want to destroy this country. They will nibble at the constitution and take any piece you allow.

Here is what you do step by step if you want to help.

1. Write, call "and" email your representatives often. Let them know you are keeping score.

2. Take someone shooting. Safely...

3. Repeat step #1.

4. Repeat step #2.

Follow this 4 step process on a regular basis, and you wont have to worry about your rights.

LNK

 

[JohnBT]

A national card will be rejected for the same reason states such as Virginia won't allow the use of a carry permit to bypass the instant check system. And the reason is: You could be arrested, tried and convicted and still have that card in your possession. It would be good until the expiration date, too.

"Make them turn it in" you say? They'll claim they lost it.

Driver's licenses pose nearly the same problem after a DUI conviction; at least until a cop pulls the driver and runs the license and finds out it's been suspended or revoked.