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Incident at School...

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Michael R., Nov 16, 2011.

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  1. Michael R.

    Michael R. Member

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    hello,
    i am a freshman at a local high school in illinois near the border of wisconsin and i have one question concerning hunting and such things(didnt know if this is the right place or not). anyhow. let me give you some background on what is about to happen. my english teacher is how you would expect any teahcer to be, he says he protested many things during the 60s and 70s, and he says he thinks obama is a great speaker(which he isnt), and he doesnt even own a tv. anyhow, today in class we were talking about how children should go outside instead of watching tv, etc. so, eventually we talk about how there are coyotes in the woods.

    i raise my hand and talk about how my dad has shot 3 coyotes because they are nuisances where i live, and they kill pets, deer, etc. before i explain why he shoots them, everybody says oh how can you do that! and what not. and his response is "well aren't you harming the coyotes for putting your house on their land". now i would usually would have a good response to this, but i kind of babble things out and i dont give a good answer. after that i now feel like the whole class hates me because i kill cute, fuzzy coyotes.when the class ended, i immediatley decided to post this on THR because the level of knowledge here is simply amazing. what should i have said to the teacher and what should i say if something like this rises up again?
    mike
    p.s. if i need any further explanations from you guys then just ask, and i will elaborate
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2011
  2. esheato

    esheato Member

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    Don't argue with idiots...they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    Seriously, you're not going to change his mind. Just smile at him and know that you are far better off.
     
  3. Michael R.

    Michael R. Member

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    thanks esheato, if there's one way to get nowhere, it's arguing with idiots
     
  4. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

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    First off, not all teachers are idiots, or anti-gun.
    Next, learn how to use capital letters and punctuation, and watch your attitude.

    Now that I got all my teacher persona satisfied...you have a few choices.
    1. Your friends and those who understand the issue will support you, the rest don't really matter.
    2. Agreed, you will not change the teacher's mind, but a quiet, rational, reasoned explanation (with some solid info on the danger of 'yotes to back you up), might earn you a bit of respect with the guy(?) and the class. I welcome disagreement in my classes, but come loaded for bear, 'cuz I already am.
    3. Your story about your dad shooting coyotes was a bit off the topic of kids going outside, so perhaps a side discussion with the teacher, explaining what your point was going to be, might help clear the air for the future.

    I'm a crusty teacher, so I know how to stay on the good side of crusty teachers. Show a bit of calm thought and respect. Both will go a long way.
     
  5. Axel Larson

    Axel Larson Member

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    Thankfully in college most of my professors have been mostly logical but I have gotten into arguments with classmates, I had one who thought you had to have a "license" to carry in Vermont(my project in class dealt with firearms laws) . Anyhow just tell them what you know, would they rather shoot a coyote or have their live stock/ pets eaten. Not to mention that coyotes can even become aggressive towards humans. In my opinion they are far worse than wolves. You will never reach some people but you may persuade others.
     
  6. wannabeagunsmith

    wannabeagunsmith Member

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    Hey man, I am in H.S. as well, I have gotten that same BS as well (you are talking to a coyote hunter here, fyi) and you should respond in telling them that coyotes have been known to kill small children, get rabies and spread it to multiple other animals, an not to mention they don't really care about houses- they actually do live in cities, even large ones like Spokane and Seattle. So unless they want rabid, child- killers loose in the public, they should give you an ear about this.

    Do they need proof? Here is a list of deaths & attacks on humans.
    http://www.varmintal.com/attac.htm
     
  7. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    In order for an argument or debate of any kind to be at all productive, both parties have to agree on some basic tenets. If they don't, it's just not gonna happen. Kind of like the NRA vs. PETA debates. One group believes that animals are as important and should have the same rights as people. The other group believes animals are a resource to be used and appreciated but not given the same rights as humans. Unless they agree on the basic concept to begin with, a debate about hunting and/or wildlife management will get nowhere. Same thing with your teacher and other students. Don't waste time arguing with people when you aren't starting from the same base. The old Mark Twain statement quoted by a couple others is very true.
     
  8. Michael R.

    Michael R. Member

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    I agree with all of you. Johnnyc, I really need to start thinking before I act and realize the implications of what i am saying. I was not stereotyping about teachers, just the ones who are idiots. I will remember to back up my statements with evidence as well.
    Thanks
     
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Moving this down to Hunting, I suspect some of the hunters can explain overpopulation of wild animals in a way your teacher and others would understand.

    You may not change their minds, but at least you will be able to try armed with good information.

    Overpopulation, inbreeding... all kinds of reasons to control many animals. Even non emotional animal rights folks agree with the majority of it.
     
  10. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    Michael! I am an old man, and I have taught, but mostly adults...

    These are my rules: First person that raises their voice looses. First person that attacks the other PERSON and does not stay on topic, looses.

    Any time these two things come up in any discussion, it is no longer a discussion but time to walk away. And do that, just walk away.

    Remember, some people have "other' value systems. (ie animals are just as/or even more important than humans). Do not ingage in any "discussion" about hunting with them...it is not possible...ignore them. If you must try to talk about guns, stay on target shooting, if you bring hunting into it, their emotions will cloud their logic to the point they cannot think. OK?
     
  11. Michael R.

    Michael R. Member

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    hermannr,
    I agree with you totally. Keep my mouth shut and avoid any off topic discussion. Thanks for your help everyone.
     
  12. Axel Larson

    Axel Larson Member

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    I respectively disagree go ahead and bring hunting into the conversion.Hunting is a way of life for many people that live in Vermont. I also realize that you probably don't have that many country folk in your class considering it is in Illinois but if you do not explain to them the values involved in hunting and shooting they will not know them. But when it comes down to it it is your call whether or not to deal with trying to show people logic.
     
  13. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I have a policy never to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
     
  14. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    .

    More and more they are, but not all. I married one of the few that isn't...a college professor, too. Go figure. Colleges are INFESTED with liberals that infect our youngsters with all sorts of crap. Brainwashed, mind numbed idiots are far to often the results of their "education". It's sick. So, just keep YOUR head clear. I've been a member of the NRA since the age of 14 and it gave me the info I needed to satisfy my political development in a world of leftists. :D However, I attended Texas A&M University, a rather conservative school at the time, and even majored in Wildlife and Fisheries management, which is NOT the bailiwick of liberals, or wasn't at the time. We had two kinds of students in that career path, though, the rural kid hunters and fishermen types like me and, more and more, were the granola cruncher eco save the world types, the ones that wanted funding for game management to be diverted to song bird research (even though HUNTERS do the funding), that sort of thing. So, I don't know what it's like up there, now. I'm retired and don't give a damn, frankly. LOL

    Sounds like you have YOUR head on strait, so I'd just ignore the idiots. There are plenty of 'em out there in academia, trust me.
     
  15. BCCL

    BCCL Member

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    Anytime you encounter a grown adult that uses phrases like this "well aren't you harming the coyotes for putting your house on their land?. You must realize that you are not dealing with a rational person.

    Don't engage in back and forth debate with one, you can't win.
     
  16. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Agree with BCCL. The teacher's comment is not at all rational. Just words to support an emotional opinion, and not even directly related to being against shooting a coyote.

    It's a waste of time to argue or even try to discuss an issue with somebody whose entire thesis is based upon emotion.
     
  17. sKunkT

    sKunkT Member

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    I don't even waste time trying to convince people hunting is the right thing. Many have already made up their mind. I do not feel like I have to explain myself to anybody, especially when what I am doing is legal and to me- ethical.

    When people want me to explain the reason I hunt, I tell them they have to try it to understand. Words cannot describe (at least my words anyway) the way it feels to be out in the wild with the intent of harvesting an animal. It just feels natural. It just feels right. I love sharing that feeling with others, but if they don't want to then it is their loss.
     
  18. Zombiphobia

    Zombiphobia Member

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    I've had similar 'conversations' in class, too. I'm sure most of us here have.

    What has been said is true; you can't win an argument with someone who always knows better than you without ever having been properly educated. Too few people in our country understand the neccesary balance of life and death and will always demonize you if they don't like what you do. It's this intolerable ingorance that is destroying us all though.
     
  19. interlock

    interlock Member

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    I have a policy never to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.


    great quote! i wonder who wrote it.

    As for the teacher thing. I echo the words or wisdom above...
     
  20. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    interlock, I first heard that from a comedian named Woody Woodbury onstage in Fort Lauderdale in about 1961.
     
  21. WNC Seabee

    WNC Seabee Member

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  22. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    He's an English teacher, right? You could ask that teacher why he is anthropomorphizing wild animals. He might be so shocked at your width of vocabulary that it shuts him up. :D
     
  23. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Not sure where it originated. I don't even remember where I heard it, but I love it. :)
     
  24. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

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    If he thinks coyotes are great, maybe he should be introduced to one in a locked room. It amazes me how many people develop bonds with things in life they have no overall experience with.
     
  25. HarcyPervin

    HarcyPervin Member

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    show them a picture of a coyote infected with mange and explain how it can spread. I doubt that too many will fault your for killing the cute, cuddly coyote.
     
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