Indicative Behaviors in Youth

[bigalexe]

This thread is a sort of response to a semi-zombie thread here that just got resurrected. I believe there is a very good topic that needs to be discussed regarding indicative behaviors in youth and judging maturity.

The common question we ask before introducing children to firearms is "Are they mature enough?" The thread that gave me the idea to write on this involved an incident where an adult wanted to introduce a young teenager to firearms; however that teenager had just assaulted a parent with an Airsoft gun.

Now what I think is prudent here is this behavior can indicate a lot of things.

Some kids do not grow up around guns, some kids do grow up around guns but never handle them, and some kids grow up with guns. The immediate knee-jerk reaction to the aforementioned situation was that this child was not mature enough to handle firearms; I disagree this is a good answer.

I grew up where guns were plastic toys (parents never owned a gun, didn't want me around them). I was never taught gun safety and all I ever handled were squirt guns until hunter safety which I took for bow hunting. During my early teens I would probably have popped off an airsoft gun at an adult without a second thought. The reason is that I never handled guns.

Now lets consider my friend who is in a vastly different situation, he grew up shooting. He had shot qualifications with the local sheriff dept before I even handled a gun because his dad is high-up. He was taught gun safety and at so acted very differently around guns in his early teens than I did (note that we didn't know each other then, I am speaking on matters we have discussed). He of course would not have been shooting people with airsoft guns because "All guns are always loaded and Muzzle in a safe direction."

So when we are presented with situation regarding children we need to remember that there are many different situations in todays world.

 

[rm86]

Honestly airsoft guns are made to shoot people, that's why they have the orange tip. Even in a household where a kid grows up with and respects guns, he's still going to shoot his friends/family with his airsoft gun for laughs if nothing else. It's all part of being young. I had plenty of safe gun handling knowledge but that never stopped me from unloading on my friends with a full auto glock 18 when I was in high school. You've got to understand that airsoft guns are marketed like paintball guns, meaning that their main purpose is to shoot others. Some may enjoy them as replicas or collectibles as well, but you can't hold it against the kid for shooting someone with one. I know lots of people may preach that he should be practice safe handling etc, and now would be a good time to teach him, but don't expect it to change how he haandles his plastic airsoft bb gun.

 

[alohachris]

There's no such thing as a "mature & responsible" 13 year-old, just varying degrees of impulsivity. There's a reason that kids under 18 aren't allowed to use firearms unsupervised, or be held to the same legal standards as adults. It's because their brains are still plastic & not fully formed yet. They are physically different from adults.

My son is very aware of the 4 rules and exhibits model behavior in handling firearms. I still don't trust him as far as I can throw him and never let him out of my sight with a gun. I do this because I love him and I know that he's young, distractible, impulsive and that it's my job to keep him safe.

I'm NOT saying that kids can't follow the rules, sometimes better than adults. In fact, I just had a 50+ year old lady point a loaded gun at me on the range on Saturday. It's just that they do not possess the ability to consider fully the implications & consequences of their actions.

If the 13 year-olds mother needed a cornea transplant to save her eye from the destruction caused by an airsoft pellet fired into her face at contact distance, who would be at fault? The kid in question didn't give a second thought to the possible outcomes in that situation beyond "This will be great! Mom's gonna freak out!"

 

[longdayjake]

One can judge pretty easily if a kid is ready to handle firearms. In my experience all you need is a few days or sometimes a few hours with somebody to know if they can take things seriously or not. If you aren't sure then you shouldn't do it.

I myself have had people invite themselves to the range with me though I didn't really trust them. I looked at it as an opportunity for me to "smack" some sense into them. I am a quiet guy but when you screw around with something that shouldn't be screwed around with I can be VERY scary. That said, it is best to avoid the situation if you can. Usually you can tell someones maturity by their smile. Think about it. How many dirtbags do you know that have an honest smile?

 

[Coyote3855]

however that teenager had just assaulted a parent with an Airsoft gun.

Means what? Did he put his mom's eye out or pop her in the back from 20 feet? Assault is a strong word depending on what happened.

My dad started me shooting when I was about 4, had a Daisy at 6, Winchester Single Shot .22 for my 9th birthday. Strict supervision until he was satisfied. I was hunting and shooting on my own at 11. This was on a 2500 acre ranch with no neighbors within a mile, but I still got called on safety issues. He took my first pistol away from me for a year when I did something stupid at 14.

Depends on the kid. To the OP's original question, maybe the young teenager needs to be introduced to firearms to learn safe gun handling so he won't shoot his mom in the butt again.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Maybe I'm an old fogey (34) but the idea of pointing any gun at someone, even an airsoft gun or paintball marker just turns me off. I was never allowed to point my cap gun at another person, and in retrospect I'm glad my parents taught me that way. Respect for firearms and a respect for human life were paramount.

 

[General Geoff]

There's no such thing as a "mature & responsible" 13 year-old, just varying degrees of impulsivity.

I would disagree; maturity has very little to do with age.

The key operating factor here, however, is that a 13 year old is not legally responsible for himself, unless he manages to get emancipated at such a young age (which would require exceptional circumstances).

 

[TylerPearce]

I am only 18 right now, but I don't even remember a time when I wasn't around firearms. My dad is a sergeant at a police station nearby, and has always owned several rifles, shotguns, and a couple handguns. He started me off shooting when I was just a really little kid, no age comes to mind. I handled guns by myself several times when I was much younger. I was always taught to treat a gun as if it was loaded, keep it pointed in a safe direction... etc. The reason why I handled guns is because I was also taught that if I shot his guns, I had to clean them. This usually meant that he wasn't home when I got them out to clean them, just my mom, who doesn't know much about guns. They always had and still have total trust in me with firearms, and I am glad they did that, because it made me feel like They saw me as mature enough to handle that responsibility. I didn't want to ruin that, so I double, triple, and quadruple checked firearms for safety before handling them. So yes, being around guns taught me gun safety, but that didn't keep me from going out in the woods with my friends and having "wars" with paintball and Airsoft guns. everybody needs to understand that airsoft guns were made to shoot each other with, maybe not "assault" an unknowing victim but mutual combat is totally different, it was just FUN!

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Maturity has a lot to do with age, maybe not exclusively, but there is no substitute for learning lessons as you mature through time.

Those that claim they were mature and responsible at age 13 probably haven't matured much since then, thus affecting their judgement.

I certainly thought I was ready to take on the world in my teens, looking back...HA!

 

[SonOfRoost]

I happen to have done this (shot my mom in the face with an airsoft gun, unloaded though) I'm not POSITIVE this refrences me, although I'm pretty sure. And I've never had any kind of real safety issue with an actual firearm (other than the occasional "hey flip the safety switch"). Both of my parents (including the one I shot) believe I am more than mature enough to handle firearms, in fact they have been nice enough to allow me to save up for a handgun. I've always shown maturity with guns, and have never even considered pointing even a plastic firearm at something unless it was in play. The time I shot my mom is, of course, a very stupid moment for me that I learned a lot from (including an essay I wrote on the function of different gun actions, and my hunters safety course). Everyone has some stupid moments, including mature adults. Just because I had one extremely bad moment doesn't mean I'm not mature, it's how I dealt with my stupid moment that should show maturity, and by all accounts I dealt with it well and learned a lot, which I believe makes me mature.
This doesn't mean I can run around with guns all the time, just that I can handle their use, and any consiquences that may come with it. (although hopefully there's none)
Also not meant to imply that I have nothing to learn and that I'm completly mature, just mature considering my situation at the time.

 

[ldsgeek]

My kids never had toy guns other than super soaker type water guns. They were taught early that guns were not toys but they were never told "Don't ever touch a gun". They were taught that if they wanted to see/touch/handle one come see dad and we would do it the safe way, Coopers laws and all. They were also taught that if one of their friends wanted to show off the guns in their house they were to call for a ride and wait outside. We never had any problems with either.

 

[General Geoff]

Everyone has some stupid moments, including mature adults.

This cannot be emphasized enough. Being mature does not mean never making a stupid mistake. Being mature means owning up to those mistakes, and learning from them so as not to make the same mistake twice.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

^ True, however the propensity to make stupid mistakes decreases with age and maturity level.

 

[TylerPearce]

I was not very mature or responsible when I was 13, but I was with guns. When you are 13, and heck, even 18, you mess around a lot, but I never mess around when it comes to firearm safety.

 

[Mudinyeri]

My son is 10 and very mature and responsible for his age. We have Nerf guns, squirt guns, Airsoft guns, pellet guns and firearms in our household. I suppose you could say his first gun was either a Nerf gun or a squirt gun.

We established that both Nerf guns and squirt guns were toys and acceptable to point and shoot at people who are participating in a game with you. We also established that it was not acceptable to point and shoot those guns at people who were not playing a game with you or people who had been playing a game with you but were no longer participating or had asked you to stop.

When my son demonstrated his ability to make appropriate decisions based on these rules we moved on to Airsoft guns. We established that Airsoft guns were not to be pointed or shot at people or pets.

When my son demonstrated his ability to make appropriate decisions about Airsoft guns we moved on to pellet guns and so on.

This summer, for his 10th birthday, my son received a .22 rifle. He is not allowed to handle or shoot it unsupervised. It is kept in the gun safe with the other guns that are not to be used as toys (including the pellet and BB guns). He does not have the combination to the safe. His Airsoft pistol, by the way, is not kept in the safe. By allowing him to keep the Airsoft pistol in his room we are further establishing his level of responsibility. He instructs any of his friends in the shooting rules for the Airsoft pistol with me watching on and does a good job. He can recite the four rules of gun safety and has yet to violate one of them while handling either the Airsoft pistol, a pellet gun or an actual firearm.

This, IMHO, is how you raise a child to be a mature adult who is willing and able to accept responsibility. Also, IMHO, far too few children are raised this way today.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

^ Ya got that right. Good for you and your son.

 

[Mags]

Honestly airsoft guns are made to shoot people, that's why they have the orange tip.

That's why my children will never have a toy that resembles a real gun. I have no problem with them shooting real guns.

 

[rm86]

You're gonna have to get with the times man. Airsoft is the new paintball and kids love playing these kind of games in the woods or running around the yard. Mudinyeri has the right idea, he understands how kids view airsoft guns.

 

[Bovice]

Airsoft isn't the same as the real thing. It just isn't. Orange tips, plastic, all a dead giveaway that it's not real. What you should be teaching is safe airsoft practices... This is not a "one size fits all" thing. Once the gun in question is determined to be an airsoft gun, as long as proper airsoft safety is followed, it's not a big deal. Put goggles on, and have some fun shooting at each other.

Teaching firearm safety with a nerf gun is stupid. Sorry guys.

 

[SonOfRoost]

I agree that airsoft is different, still shouldn't shoot people who don't want to be shot though.

 

[Mags]

Teaching firearm safety with a nerf gun is stupid. Sorry guys.

Who said that? You teach firearm safety with real guns not toys. If a gun is a toy what do you think will happen?

 

[Hawthorne2k]

My four year old son puts one of his cap pistols in his pocket, raises his hands up in the surrender position, says "Dad, watch me!..... BEEP!" and then pulls out the pistol and shoots it at pretend targets all around him, just like an IPSC shooter would with real targets and a real timer.

I gotta talk to him about no-shoots and the 180 rule, though.

The desire is DEFINITELY there with him. With my oldest son (6), not so much, he's more into the piano and reading, but that's cool, too. Both of them know not to touch Daddy's guns: They've done it once each without my permission, and each time I've come down like the wrath of God on them (rhetorically speaking, of course). They know that pretend guns are one thing, Daddy's guns are another.

 

[ny32182]

When I was a kid, I shot all my friends, siblings, cousins, and occassionally parents with plenty of Nerf guns, cap guns, water guns, "airsoft" (slow plastic BBs) guns, and paintball guns depending on the exact age and circumstances. I also had ~700fps pellet guns completely unsupervized as a young teenager and before. I have very fond memories of all of them, and would not want to deny any kids of mine their Nerf-war memories.

Hell, today I'm 28 and I still shoot my sibling with a Nerf gun from time to time.

Amazingly, I've never shot anyone with a pellet gun or a firearm. How is this possible, you ask? Because (drumroll)... when I was a kid, I knew the difference between a firearm and anything that shot fun projectiles. Actually I don't recall ever not knowing the difference. It is possible. I'm living proof.

There were not many firearms at home when I was a kid, but my dad did have a 30/30 rifle, that I could have gotten to if I wanted, and he taught me how to load it and fire it. I knew what it could do, and I knew my dad would kill me if I ever touched it without his approval, and that was more than enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Teaching firearm safety with a nerf gun is stupid. Sorry guys.

If you're inferring from my post (I think I'm the only one that mentioned Nerf) that I'm teaching my son firearm safety with a Nerf gun you mis-read what I wrote. I taught my son RESPONSIBILITY with his Nerf guns.

Now, I suppose one could argue that a huge part of firearms safety is, in fact, responsibility but it's an indirect correlation not a direct one.

 

[bigalexe]

Just wanted to respond because it's been almost a day since I started this.

I think you guys have gotten around to the point I was trying to emphasize which is that you can't judge someone based on single incidents, and also similar is not equal.

I think a good insight I can take away from reading your responses is that we need more education on real gun safety, for all kids. We need to get more kids to see toy guns for what they are, and real guns for what they are and treat each of them as such.

Not that we aren't trying.