input on Vortex scope

[Varminterror]

It must be nice only ever shooting in one environmental condition, so your load and the air it flies through never changes…

For the rest of us in the real world, better tools exist…

 

[Megawatt maker]

It must be nice only ever shooting in one environmental condition, so your load and the air it flies through never changes…

For the rest of us in the real world, better tools exist…

Better components, better cartridges.

I suggest you try Varget or any of the other "extreme" powders Hodgdon offers.

I can nail the 4" round steel plate at 600 yards with both loads..if it's 95, or if it's -10....without and changes, rezeros, whatever..

Sorry about your luck....

 

[Varminterror]

I remember my first beer…

For the rest of the population of shooters which aren’t shooting on the moon, air density changes and negates the “fit” of BDC reticles. But hey, if you’re only trying to hit targets at 600yrds, then rudimentary tools can work well enough.

There are good reasons surgeons don’t use pocket knives…

 

[irishlad]

Out of all of the various Vortex optics I have tried, I have not been disappointed in the relative quality for the respective price for each... But I also have calibrated my expectations to the quality to be expected for certain price points - kinda like eating at McDonald's, I know it won't be "good food," but sometimes when you need to eat, food is food.

Well stated, I've been very happy with all of my Vortex optics. Work well for my backyard shooting and hunting needs.

I bought a couple of Vipers when they went on sale years ago, I was very glad I did not pay the at the time full price. I still use them, one on a .222 Mag, and another on a .35 Remington.

I put a 6.5-20x50 Viper on my 280 Rem a few months ago. I really like it.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Better components, better cartridges.

I suggest you try Varget or any of the other "extreme" powders Hodgdon offers.

I can nail the 4" round steel plate at 600 yards with both loads..if it's 95, or if it's -10....without and changes, rezeros, whatever..

Sorry about your luck....

This thread has really drifted but atmospheric conditions are something that I'm always willing to get more education on.

Would you mind sharing your drop tables at -10 and 95F with that load?

 

[Varminterror]

@MarshallDodge - I’ll play my hand first: here’s the data for conditions I shot in at the SAME RANGE LOCATION between Dec 22, ‘22 and Aug 19, ‘23. It wasn’t quite -10F, but it WAS -6F back in December, and last weekend it was 95F, conditions which meant air density changed considerably, pushing the Density Altitude (relative air density corrected elevation) changed from -1500 feet to 3900 feet. (Of note: During the coldest winter months, I keep my magazines in an inside pocket with a handwarmer to ensure reliable ignition, and ensure my velocity is less influenced by the environmental temp).

That change in environmental conditions meant a change in Point of Impact at 600 yards of 3.3”…

This is shooting Berger 105 Hybrids over Varget and CCI BR4 primers out of Lapua brass through a Bartlein barrel, which delivers ~.1-.4” 3-5shot groups with 6-9fps 10 shot SD’s - there aren’t “better components” or ammo to be had or made.

But this is why BDC reticles don’t actually work in real world, changing environmental conditions.



BUT, that is using highly efficient 6mm Berger Hybrids with a proper long range cartridge. Comparatively, here’s what my 73ELD load (also over Varget) would be doing on this hot summer day vs cold winter morning, acknowledging that the 223rem being described isn’t quite as good of cartridge for long range shooting as is the 6mm Dasher… as you’ll note for 223rem, there is ~6” more drop at 600 yards, nearly a full MOA, when flying through the more dense, cold air, than flying through the thin, hot air…




So what is proposed here is that THIS reticle below is valid for delivering precisely 14.4 and 15.4moa shots, while its reticle reference ends at 11moa and 14.4-15.4moa hold reference will fall within the wide bar of the exterior frame - where the reticle itself covers 2.4” at 600 yards… (of note, if this reticle rendering is correct, 14.4-15.4moa won’t even be within the field of view at the bottom of the scope at the reference magnification. The shooter would have to zoom out to even see the target in the FOV.


This is why and how BDC reticles don’t actually work for precise, long range shooting in variable environmental conditions without a lot of extra work to manipulate SFP magnification to align aiming points with distances - changing your field of view… better to simply dial the turret and independently control your FOV… and of course, MUCH better to use a proper graduated reticle with more reference and use it in an FFP optic…

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Im learning how to use my elevation dial on reaching out.

 

[Megawatt maker]

This thread has really drifted but atmospheric conditions are something that I'm always willing to get more education on.

Would you mind sharing your drop tables at -10 and 95F with that load?

Yes, it has. Because a certain other member doesn't seem to like that I like a certain reticle from the company this thread is about, he has decided to go on a rampage over it.

To answer your question...I don't know. I have the means of finding out, but I never bothered with those two particular loads or their rifles...because
1)They simply work for what I built the rifles and loads to do...knock steel at my club.
2)neither are for hunting, nor do I shoot matches or competition, so, again, I don't really care what their drop difference is...if any..between temp extremes.
3), The loads just work, with those scopes, with those reticle, on those rifles.


And finally..if all that makes a certain other member butthurt because he thinks I "shoot on the moon" and don't get out enough...he can go pound sand.

 

[irishlad]

I have a Vortex diamondback tactical 6x24x50 FFP. On one of my AR'S. I love it. I also have a discontinued Strike eagle It has about the same magnification. It's a SFP. It works well too.

Grandson has a 4-16x44 on his SFAR. he likes it.

 

[irishlad]

Say what you want about Vortex. They are not Leica or Zeiss level quality, but the price also reflects that, and has far as service goes..if and when you need it, simply cannot be beat by anyone else in the industry.

Out of all of the various Vortex optics I have tried, I have not been disappointed in the relative quality for the respective price for each... But I also have calibrated my expectations to the quality to be expected for certain price points - kinda like eating at McDonald's, I know it won't be "good food," but sometimes when you need to eat, food is food.

I agree with this^^. I'm just a recreational target shooter and occasional deer hunter. Vortex optics have been great for me. Only issue was some how the grandson tore the rubber eyepiece on his Razor rangefinder. Shipped and returned in about a week. 99% of our optics are Vortex. 75% of those are refurbished from here, https://aaoptics.com/Refurbished_c_114.html

You could say I'm a Vortex fanboy

Having a choice is a good thing.

1-VIPER PST GEN 2 5-25x50 MOA-SAVAGE 6.5 CM

1-VIPER PST GEN 2 5-25x50 MRAD-BERGARA 6.5 CM

1-VIPER 6.5x-20x50 MOA-RUGER 280 REM

1-VIPER 6.5-20x44 MOA-AR10

1-DIAMONDBACK® TACTICAL 4-16x44 FFP MRAD-RUGER SFAR

1-STRIKE EAGLE 1-6X24-AR15

1-STRIKE EAGLE 1X8X24-AR15

1- CROSSFIRE II 6-24X50 MOA-SAVAGE 204 RUGER

2-CROSSFIRE II 4-12X40 AO MOA-RUGER 10/22s

2-CROSSFIRE II 6-18X44 AO MOA-SAVAGE B17 & B22

1-VENOM RED DOT 3 MOA-RUGER MARK IV TACTICAL

1-RAZOR RED DOT 3 MOA-GLOCK 17

1-RAZOR HD 4000 RANGEFINDER

1-IMPACT ® LASER RANGEFINDER 1000

1-RAZOR HD 27-60X85 SPOTTING SCOPE

4-DIAMONDBACK BINOCULARS

1-VANQUISH 8X42 BINOCULARS

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

My scopes serve my needs well.

 

[Varminterror]

Im learning how to use my elevation dial on reaching out.

Fantastic, amigo! Considering that THIS…

I have not got to the point. Where im comfortable playing with adjustments after i have a scope zeroed. I rely on the hold over marks.

…was only about a month and a half ago, if you’re already sufficiently comfortable to change how you speak about dialing instead of holding, I can only assume that’s a good sign! Keep it up!

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Fantastic, amigo! Considering that THIS…


…was only about a month and a half ago, if you’re already sufficiently comfortable to change how you speak about dialing instead of holding, I can only assume that’s a good sign! Keep it up!

I discovered it's much better than depending on hold overs. I want to work on dope cards too.

 

[Walkalong]

Well stated, I've been very happy with all of my Vortex optics. Work well for my backyard shooting and hunting needs.


I put a 6.5-20x50 Viper on my 280 Rem a few months ago. I really like it.

That's what is on my .222 Mag, with the fine cross hair dot reticle.

 

[irishlad]

That's what is on my .222 Mag, with the fine cross hair dot reticle.
View attachment 1168383

That's a great round you don't hear about much anymore. 22-250 use to be really popular where I live for coyotes. The grandson and his buddies mostly use 223 now.