Interesting findings with .308/7.62 loads

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RainDodger

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I find myself back into loading for .308 after about 15 years away from the caliber.

Today I took a brand NEW rifle to the range! I can't put a picture of it up right now, but if it's wanted, I can do so later. It's a Rock River LAR-8 "Varmint" (essentially an AR-10 with some differences), 26" (yep, twenty six inch) heavy stainless free floated match barrel (no muzzle device), RRA's "Operator" version of a non-collapsible A2 type stock, RRA National Match trigger. Scope is a Leupold Mark 4, 8.5-25X.

I took 3 different loads to the range:

1. PMC "Bronze". Basically cheap fodder to test functionality and make sure the rifle is on the paper, since the scope was only bore-sighted. The PMC had me within about 7" of the bull right off, which allowed me to move out to 100 yards in just a couple of shots. It was shooting about 2"-3" groups at 100 yards, in kind of random fashion.

2. What I thought would be the most accurate... hand loaded 168 grain Nosler HPBT Match (#53164) bullets over 43.0 grains of BLC(2) for an estimated 2500 FPS. I was astounded when the first shot obliterated the "X". Not so much after a few more rounds. Failed to group well and would occasionally spit one out maybe 2" away. I was getting disappointed.

3. Hand loaded 155 grain Nosler HPBT Match (#53155) over 44.0 grains of IMR-4064, for an estimated 2775 FPS. This rifle loves this bullet. I put 10 rounds inside of an inch at 100 yards. Very happy shooter. I will develop this load further and just for grins I'll measure the chamber, breech face to ogive, see what it is, and go from there.

A couple of small things about the rifle. I had 3 failure-to-feeds. I attribute all failures to two of the magazines. This rifle is designed to us FAL magazines and the steel ones I had on hand were all of $6 each. Yep, six whole dollars. You get what you pay for. Three other $6 magazines worked ok, and the single polymer magazine that RRA provided was flawless, albeit kind of ugly. I dumped the rounds out of the cheap mags and ran them through the polymer mag and it worked like a champ. I've got a line on some polymer mags made especially for the LAR-8 and I'll give them a try.

This rifle is not light. That means, the recoil was no factor at all. With this upper I wouldn't be walking around in the woods, but perhaps a more "tactical" upper is on the horizon for this shooter.

Anyhow, I found it curious that the rifle didn't like what many other .308 shooters find to be the most accurate combination of bullet and powder available.

More to come in the future....
 
I have some .308's that like 155's, some that like 168's and one that likes 175's best. I've never used Nosler bullets, most of mine get fed Hornady or Sierra. I really like 4064 for .308 and some of my most accurate loads have been with 4064. I also use I4895 quite a bit too.

I know folks that use BLC2 for 556 but not so much for .308, but I don't get out much so that just might be my small sample size.

You might try some Amax bullets to see how they fare in that setup.

A 26" barrel? Really?
 
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I had a DPMS AR10 with a heavy fluted barrel and 1:10 twist like yours. It liked 168 SMK with IMR4895. It didn't like 4064 so much. The bottom line is to find what works well with your rifle. And then go with it. The same way I found out what mine likes you have already a good start on. IMR4064 is a good powder. My 303 britt lives on a steady diet of the stuff.
 
What you have already found, each rifle, even the same model from the same manufacturer has it's own kinks and quirks regarding ammunition that produces the best accuracy.

Just because it works super in someone else's rifle doesn't necessarily mean it will in yours as you found out. There are too many variables here.

As you said, you did find one load that grouped very well at 100 yards and would develop that one further. That's the road most traveled by just about every experienced hand loader.

Enjoy ---

Jim
 
Does the rifle really love the 155 grain bullets over the 168 grain bullets or does the rifle prefer the slightly faster burning IMR 4064 powder over the BLC(2) powder? When loading 308 for my M1A or my Armalite AR-10 I never cared for powders faster than IMR 3031 or slower than IMR 4064. Your rifle may shoot the 168 grain bullets just as well or better than the 155 grain bullets when using a different powder. Just speculation on my part but the possibility is out there.

Ron
 
RainDodger,
I actually called RRA and asked them on my 223 Varmint 24" rifle. Since they guarantee a certain MOA out of the gun I asked what they general test with - the person I spoke to was very helpful.
 
RainDodger,

I've found my M1A performs very similarly to your experience. The consensus "if your rifle can't shoot this" load of 42gn 4895, 168gn SMKs does not group well for me either.

My best is the 155gn AMAX with 38.6 of H4895

Go figure.
 
HKGuns: yep... a 26" barrel. Remember - you can make it shorter; you just can't make it longer!

Reloadron: totally understand. It may very well be the powder that the rifle likes. I'll definitely be trying the 4064 with the heavier bullets and see how it does.

I've been hand loading for decades and this is the tedious but fun (and hopefully fruitful) part of the "job"... so far I'm enjoying this rifle and that's what it's all about. :)

Since I'm retiring and leaving the corporate world on 30 September (next week!), I'll have a LOT more time to get it right!!!

Thanks for the comments, guys!
 
RainDodger,

I've found my M1A performs very similarly to your experience. The consensus "if your rifle can't shoot this" load of 42gn 4895, 168gn SMKs does not group well for me either.

My best is the 155gn AMAX with 38.6 of H4895

Go figure.
I found some stuff I loaded over 20 years ago, 168 grain Sierra bullets on top of 41.0 grains of AA2495. This was a tack driving load in my Remington 700 bolt gun and I ran some through my M1A. So 20 plus year old loads and the stuff shot really well in the M1A, well enough that I plan to screw with it a little. Shooting in the M1A i was averaging 2,500 FPS, averages in the 24" barrel bolt gun were around 2,550, pretty close. My everyday go to using IMR 4064 is 42.2 grains under Sierra 180 grain HPBT. That gets the 180 grain bullets up around 2,575 in the M1A and shoots real well.

My general observation is the M1A and the AR-10 tend to shoot most bullets from 150 grain on up to 180 grain well to very good depending on the powder. The gas guns are much more powder sensitive it seems than the bolt gun. Tomorrow I hope to get out to the range and try a few more loads. I would like to get rid of as much loaded 308 as possible so I can hand load more as we get into winter up here. :)

Ron
 
ReloadRon, if you having trouble shooting all that ammo you have in excess only so you can load it again, I am your man. I can magically turn all that old tarnished ammo into empty brass casings.

On another note, never tried AA2495. My 308's both liked AA2520 behind 150 or 168's. The great powder shortage got me started on IMR4895 and I haven't looked back. I didn't have much 4064, so I saved it for the 303.
 
ReloadRon, if you having trouble shooting all that ammo you have in excess only so you can load it again, I am your man. I can magically turn all that old tarnished ammo into empty brass casings.

On another note, never tried AA2495. My 308's both liked AA2520 behind 150 or 168's. The great powder shortage got me started on IMR4895 and I haven't looked back. I didn't have much 4064, so I saved it for the 303.
If the opportunity arises try the AA2495, figure nothing to lose. I also have some VihtaVuori powders I have been wanting to try. All of a sudden here I am in September wondering where the hell my summer went? This considering I have been retired for 3 years, I wonder where I found time to work? :)

Seriously and overall it has been a pretty good shooting summer, I did manage to test several loads in several calibers and rifles. The M1A which was dormant for several years has seen some shooting as well as the AR-10. I did quite a bit with 308 and 223 this summer and really enjoyed all of it. Tomorrow is looking good so hopefully more rifle time and I want to try out a Colt Series 70 Government in 38 Super. Expecting company for the weekend so I need to get my range fun in now. :)

Ron
 
My 24" DPMS likes the 168 Amax and I have fun shooting 170gr RNFP cast @ 2600+ fps. H4895. Rifle & carbine uppers shoot the same but 200 fps difference. haven't opened the IMR yet, LeverE seems to be good too.
 
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