Interesting Video

[Good Ol' Boy]

Although there are several things to take away or debate quarterbacking this video where a bystander decides to intervene, my issue is with the good samaritan handing off his gun to a complete stranger.

According to the video he had a gun in his vehicle but no way to retain it on his person. Thus, when he jumps into the situation he ends up handing it off to another complete stranger who is apparently coming to help.

I think this speaks volumes to actually having a gun on your person and a proper holster.

Bottom line though, is there ANY situation where you could see yourself handing off your carry piece to a stranger? That just seems extremely foreign to me. At this point I can not envision any circumstance where I would do that.

 

[Jeff White]

One has to maintain control of his weapon at all times. We shouldn’t have to repeat that. I’m not going to waste the time to list all of the things that could go wrong with handing your weapon off to a stranger.......

 

[mokin]

I think this speaks volumes to actually having a gun on your person and a proper holster.

+1

 

[MedWheeler]

Yep. Board shorts and flip-flops are hardly tactical attire. If I did indeed have to divest myself of my gun like that in a hurry, I'd likely unload or otherwise disable it, or simply have the newcomers take over restraint while I return the gun to the truck (in this scenario.)

But in my world? The gun came from a holster on my belt or in my pocket, and it will go back there.

 

[JohnKSa]

Lots of lessons. Here are three.

1. Don't escalate a minor property loss situation into a physical confrontation if you can help it. Especially if you're not equipped to win a physical confrontation. I'll bet the clerk wishes that she had just let the guy go with the beer. I'll bet the armed citizen wishes the same thing.

2. Think about what you're going to do ahead of time. The clerk started trying to videotape the drunk (presumably as a deterrent) but both of them were already on video and she almost certainly knew that. Taking time out in the middle of a situation like that to perform a redundant action isn't smart.

3. If you plan to go hands on, you must have a carry setup that allows you to reholster one-handed, and that provides retention. You really don't want to have to lay your gun down or hand it to a stranger in the middle of a wrestling match/fight. If you don't have a carry setup that allows you to reholster one-handed and that doesn't provide retention, the decision to go hands on is a big mistake. It should be your absolute last resort--but if you have a gun, you already have a last resort--shooting the assailant. Two absolute last resorts doesn't make sense--it's a contradiction. That means that there's a problem in the reasoning that led to the contradiction.

 

[Jeff White]

If you plan to go hands on, you must have a carry setup that allows you to reholster one-handed, and that provides retention.

You can't emphasize this enough. Most concealed carry holsters have little or no provision for retention. You will severely hamper yourself in a HTH confrontation if you have to protect your gun with your strong hand. I recommend that everyone who carries get training on weapon retention and practice. This should be as important as practicing your shooting skills.

 

[1942bull]

No way would I hand my gun to anyone unless it was a LEO asking for it. The good guy mad his first mistake not rolling up the windows to protect his kids, his second mistake was not exiting the vehicle as soon as the windows wee\ew shut. His first responsibility is to.protect his kids, and he can do that better outside of the vehicle. Third was going h2h with a gun in his hand. That effectively made him one handed in the fight. If he had two hands to use during the one arm takedown that would have put the perp in a bad state of affairs: move and get your shoulder dislocated or keep still. Either way the good guy wins. This is an example of why I say that proper SD skills include H2H skills.

 

[Jeff White]

Let's not overlook the point that the armed citizen had no reason to go HTH with the bad guy. A CCW permit doesn't come with a peace officer's commission. There was no reason to attempt to hold the assailant for the police. I cringed when I watched him advancing on the bad guy like that. He never should have put himself in a position where he was going to have to hand off his weapon to a bystander.

 

[boom boom]

You can't emphasize this enough. Most concealed carry holsters have little or no provision for retention. You will severely hamper yourself in a HTH confrontation if you have to protect your gun with your strong hand. I recommend that everyone who carries get training on weapon retention and practice. This should be as important as practicing your shooting skills.

Is that normal for civilian type training to have weapon retention training in their firearm training?

 

[Jeff White]

Is that normal for civilian type training to have weapon retention training in their firearm training?

I don’t know who offers it in a basic course. It gets into HTH and a lot of shooting instructors aren’t qualified to teach it.

Years ago Mas Ayoob wrote an article in American Handgunner talking about the trend in LE training to combine shooting and HTH defensive tactics into one course. I received all of my handgun retention training in various LE classes I took in the course of my employment. I’ve never had it in any private sector handgun class I took.

I understand there are some martial arts programs who teach it.

 

[boom boom]

I don’t know who offers it in a basic course. It gets into HTH and a lot of shooting instructors aren’t qualified to teach it.

Years ago Mas Ayoob wrote an article in American Handgunner talking about the trend in LE training to combine shooting and HTH defensive tactics into one course. I received all of my handgun retention training in various LE classes I took in the course of my employment. I’ve never had it in any private sector handgun class I took.

I understand there are some martial arts programs who teach it.

Thanks Jeff. If the plague ever ends, I'll see if any of the local trainers even offer it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

For those who want to search more about the event...

Bad guy: Jaime Garcio Aparicio
Armed Citizen: Jesse Altizer, 12 year veteran firefighter

 

[Kleanbore]

Let's not overlook the point that the armed citizen had no reason to go HTH with the bad guy. A CCW permit doesn't come with a peace officer's commission. There was no reason to attempt to hold the assailant for the police. I cringed when I watched him advancing on the bad guy like that. He never should have put himself in a position where he was going to have to hand off his weapon to a bystander.

Each of those sentences bears repeating, individually.

 

[scaatylobo]

I don’t know who offers it in a basic course. It gets into HTH and a lot of shooting instructors aren’t qualified to teach it.

Years ago Mas Ayoob wrote an article in American Handgunner talking about the trend in LE training to combine shooting and HTH defensive tactics into one course. I received all of my handgun retention training in various LE classes I took in the course of my employment. I’ve never had it in any private sector handgun class I took.

I understand there are some martial arts programs who teach it.

My biggest [ and constant ] complaint about those who promote open carry is = they have NO weapon retention skills.

And YES,at one time I taught it to officers in the academy.

I can attest to the FACT that few if any could show you those skills even 5 year later !.

And the weapon retention will only 'work' for so long and then you will have to use that gun,or lose it.

Unless you have MUCH greater skills and can finish that encounter with HTH skills.

 

[Craig_AR]

You can't emphasize this enough. Most concealed carry holsters have little or no provision for retention. You will severely hamper yourself in a HTH confrontation if you have to protect your gun with your strong hand. I recommend that everyone who carries get training on weapon retention and practice. This should be as important as practicing your shooting skills.

I don’t know who offers it in a basic course. It gets into HTH and a lot of shooting instructors aren’t qualified to teach it.

Years ago Mas Ayoob wrote an article in American Handgunner talking about the trend in LE training to combine shooting and HTH defensive tactics into one course. I received all of my handgun retention training in various LE classes I took in the course of my employment. I’ve never had it in any private sector handgun class I took.

I understand there are some martial arts programs who teach it.

Is that normal for civilian type training to have weapon retention training in their firearm training?

I think it important to distinguish between a holster with good gun retention and training in firearm retention. I think Jeff's initial statement first addresses the properties of the holster, and then gets into the aspect of firearm retention during hand-to-hand struggle. I believe most of us know little to nothing about holster selection for retention in our initial purchases, and almost no basic training programs address holster selection, even the ones that meet state concealed carry permit requirements. First level tactical courses should address holsters, including the need to be able to re-holster with one hand, but probably leave the issue of firearm retention during HTH for more advanced classes.

 

[Navy87Guy]

It was also interesting to see the responding officer show up with an AR - which clearly got in the way as he tried to apprehend the suspect. Was that a tactical decision or a reflex? Either way, it seemed to be a bad choice given the situation.