Intimidation effect?

[Preacherman]

I had an interesting experience the other day. I helped a couple of local cops hold down three gang-bangers while waiting for backup. My CCW that day was a S&W Model 13, loaded with Winchester 145gr. Silvertip JHP's (my favorite .357 Magnum load).

When the dust had settled and backup had arrived, and the BG's were being handcuffed and placed in durance vile, one of them muttered something about "that scary gun the preacher was using". Surprised, one of the cops asked what he meant. His reply (suitably edited for grammar, spelling and profanity ) was that the revolver scared him much more than the Glock pistols the LEO's were carrying. Apparently the sight of those gleaming silver hollowpoints in the cylinder gave him the collywobbles!

Has anyone ever found, or heard of, a similar intimidatory effect? I'd be interested to know whether this was an isolated incident, or something of wider significance.

 

[orangeninja]

I had a Ruger P89 aimed at me once....the thing looked like a dang cannon.....I was unarmed an my girlfriend at that time and I were walking towards our school...I was in high school at the time. This guy had the snot kicked out of him by my little brother, which I did not know. So...he decides he's either gonna scare us or shoot me. I was scared and we actually walked away from him. I figured if I ran he would get excited but there was no way I could fight him, he was at least 25 to 30 ft. away. Had me dead to rights. So I acted like he wasn't worth the hassle and calmly walked away and never even looked back. He stayed where he was yelling at me to get back there. I figured if he shot THEN I would run. No use getting him in "chase" mode for no reason. It worked. The cops picked him up, he was a 2 time felon and only age 17. He went away.

I would have been just as scared if he had a revolver.

 

[Rob Pincus]

I am assuming that since you work in a prison, you knew these cops and they knew you, otherwise drawing you gun at a crime scene when you didn't need to (ie- actively to defend yourself or others) would be pretty stupid. I bring this up only to clarify the situation for our members who may not put 2+2 together and assume that "helping out" the local deputies while they are carrying concealed was a good idea.

If they are getting shot at, maybe...
Covering prisoners who are not actively resisting... never.

 

[RUT]

The thing about a revolver vs. an auto is you can actually SEE the rounds ready to fire! That could posibly add to the intimidation factor.

 

[Preacherman]

Yes, Rob, you're quite right - one of them knew me, and asked me to help hold them down while he went after another who had gotten away. I helped his partner hold them until more help arrived. Certainly, anyone who's dumb enough to draw his CCW and charge into a situation with armed cops is asking for all he gets!

 

[WheelMan]

Well....

Awhile back there was a "what's the most intimidating looking gun?" thread and it seemed that the majority of responses were revolvers. I think the ability to see all those round pointed at you is what does it. That and the overall wide appearance as viewed from the front. (the gaping maw of a .44 or .45 doesn't hurt either.

 

[P95Carry]

I reckon looking at the ''business'' end of a 45 cal tube is scary .... that is one big hole ... but for me yeah ..... a revo is definitely more intimidating.

You can see the ''offerings'' in their lil nest ... and also you can count them!!

I just looked (at offset angle!!) at the M28-2 I am currently carrying ... and indeed ... I would NOT feel like arguing, if on the threat end of it! And these are only .357's!!

 

[Old Fuff]

Preacherman:

I knew a gent who'd smelled a fair amount of gunsmoke during several serious social encounters. He always carried a Colt Government Model on which the muzzle end of the barrel was highly polished and contrasted well with the otherwise blued finish. He claimed that a number of possible shooting incidents had ground to a stop when the other party found themselves looking at the front of that .45 - you bet intimidation can work.

 

[Maddock]

I assume that the poor, misguided youth lacked the imagination and forethought to know what would happen when they got shot and the Silvertips acted as a visual aid and mnemonic. Also, a lot of punks think that the police are under such tight restrictions on deadly force that they won’t get shot by the police but YOU as a wild card are not bound by their rules.

 

[BHPshooter]

I think revolvers are scary too, when viewed from the wrong end. I don't know if it's being able to see what it's got to offer or what...

FWIW, in bright light you can see the bullet in the tube of a semi-auto as well. I went out shooting one day last summer and was getting some more targets out of my pickup, when I looked at my side view mirror. It was very bright, and I was looking at the muzzle of my pistol. I adjusted the view, and with all of the ambient light, I could see the bright copper slug sitting at the starting line. I got a knot in my stomach right then and there, and I really can't explain why.

Reason or not, that looked scary. On top of that, I think BHP muzzles look particularly scary...

Wes

EDITED for clarity.

 

[Tamara]

More than one of the cops I knew who worked in downtown Atlanta expressed strong preferences for stainless or nickeled guns on the theory that they wanted the other guy to be able to clearly see that they had A Gun.

Personally, as a CCW-totin' private citizen, if I pull a deadly force instrument, it's because I feel I am in imminent need of using it to apply deadly force, not to intimidate.

 

[Josey]

I was in a similar situation recently. I ID'd two parole violators (they were together, automatic violation) in a B&E. I called 911 and waited. The getaway car was sitting in my sideyard. Three cruisers arrived. I told one to cover the getaway car. One BG was behind the wheel by then. BG #2 took off at a run. I told the officers I would cover the prisoner. BG #2 suddenly walks out of the darkness, looking over his shoulder. I grabbed him and threw him down. I waited for the officers to come back. They did. One of the officers told me later that the prisoners were TERRIFIED of "that big guy with the buzz cut". The officer said I would never see them in my neighbourhood again. I wasn't even armed.

 

[Jim March]

I think the gun itself is only part of the intimidation factor - the attitude, facial expression, smoothness of draw and body posture of the guy with the gun matters more, in my opinion.

And the steadyness of the muzzle matters most of all, probably.

I have no experience driving goblins off at gunpoint. I have some modicum of experience doing so at knife-point and I believe the fundamentals are similar.

One DOES NOT BLUFF. One defends oneself in the proper circumstances - and if the goblins run away screaming before you actually pull the trigger, so much the better. The paradox is that this "chase off" end result is MORE likely the more determined you are to pull the trigger when necessary. A deliberate bluff might be sniffed out, as Alduro did when that P89 was pointed at him by a punk kid.

Cold deadly intent can't be faked, and is the ultimate in intimidation.

 

[joab]

I have to agree with Preacher. I had a revolver aimed at me 10 years ago during an apparent road rage situation.My gun was in my glovebox so I was pretty much helpless. All I can remember is looking at the bullets looking back at me and thinking if the cylinder turned that I would drop to the seat and go for my gun.
When I finally was able to I called the cops and told them a guy had pointed a .44 revolver at me and gave them a fairly detailed description of the gun but a very vague description of the BG.
My description was right on except for the fact that it was a .32. And that was at a distance of about 6ft from somebody fairly familiar with firearms expecially revolvers. And the only reason I told the cops it was a .44 was because that was the biggest calber I was aware of at the time

The point of my long winded story is those little holes are magnified a whole lot with fear( or adrenaline if you want to be macho) and can be much more intimidating than any auto that you can never know for sure if it's loaded or not. With the revolver there is no doubt cuase you can see that thing that's about to make your kid an orphan.

 

[Matt G]

I know one officer who posts here who qualifies with and occasionally carries a 25-5 Mountain revolver in .45 Colt. The fairly slim-profile barrel juxtaposed with the necessarily-large 6-round cylinder stuffed full of .452 caliber LSWC's with big meplats that are almost flush with the front of the chambers makes for quite an impression!

That said, when one KNOWS one is going to employ a firearm, a long gun is almost ALWAYS the best way to go, for the reasons of firepower, accuracy, and finally, visibility. A local department that works a lot of traffic has carbines (ARs) fielded in their cars. When they occasionally find that the fellow they've just pulled over has a felony warrant for his arrest that must be served, their SOP is to unlimber the carbine and stand behind cover (usually their car) until a backup unit arrives, whereupon they conduct a proper felony arrest. In ANY felony arrest, the SOP in the field is to draw one's weapon until the defendant is secured. (The fact is, a lot of felons just REALLY don't want to go to prison...) Some people (including some cops I know) think that this is overkill, and is utterly out of hand. I disagree. If you have a more accurate, higher powered weapon at hand, DEPLOY IT! It is interesting how much respect a wanted person being taken into custody gives the AR. And rightly so-- perhaps running might be an option, but actively resisting with force is NOT, if the man behind the rifle has any ability at all.

I know of a retired officer who carried an AR on a manhunt in a creekbottom. The armed felon, who was eventually caught, was hiding in a tree and had the drop on this officer when the officer walked under his tree. He later said that he would have considered shooting, but the officer "had that machine gun", and he didn't like his odds.

I'm much more interested in the weapon used being accurate and effective than being "intimidating." But, ceteris paribus, if I need to draw down on a burglar and my choices are the big revolver or the slim semi-auto of similar firepower, I'll probably reach for the big revolver.

Sure, we don't threaten. But we also don't just shoot. Pointing a gun at an approaching threat and having him beat feet or lie down and say "Uncle" without having to fire a shot is a clear win. Even in a "good shoot," the best case scenario has not been effected for you, usually.

Me, I don't give a tinker's damn what my gun looks like, while carrying concealed. I just want comfort, concealment, reliability, and finally a certain minimum of power. You're likely as not going to find me carrying an itty bitty little J-Frame .38 with a lot of "blue" anodizing missing from the right side of the alloy frame when I'm off-duty. In my monstrous hands it pretty much disappears. Oh well. At least I'm carrying it!

 

[Alerion]

When I finally was able to I called the cops and told them a guy had pointed a .44 revolver at me and gave them a fairly detailed description of the gun but a very vague description of the BG.
My description was right on except for the fact that it was a .32. And that was at a distance of about 6ft from somebody fairly familiar with firearms expecially revolvers. And the only reason I told the cops it was a .44 was because that was the biggest calber I was aware of at the time


The point of my long winded story is those little holes are magnified a whole lot with fear( or adrenaline if you want to be macho)

Back when I was in the restaurant business I was held up one night by two guys, one of whom was pointing a .22 revolver at my head most of the time (and shaking!) I knew it was a .22 pistol. I even knew what make it was. But I can tell you that under the circumstances it had the biggest hole in the end of it I've ever seen in any handgun!

Tom

 

[Jim K]

I wonder how intimidating a 40mm flare pistol would be?

Jim

 

[BerettaNut92]

A buddy of mine who is a local po-po is a Sergeant now but back in the day, carried a .45 Colt single action.

He was holding down a BG who they finally let go. The BG said, "That's one big [expletive deleted] gun." My buddy said, "Yep, and it'll make one big [expletive deleted] hole."

 

[Ankeny]

I think Jim is right, but maybe some folks are more intimidated by a big gun than a little gun. I have had guns pointed at me and I find all of them intimidating.

Back in my former life, I went to a burglary in progress call. I am 6'3 and I weighed about 210 at the time. The call was in a dimly lit alley. I could hear one of my guys saying "...take your hands out of your pockets, do it now." As I walked around the corner of the building, one officer was about 10 yards away from the suspect pointing a four inch model 66 at the suspect, and a second officer was at about a 45 degree angle at 8-10 yards pointing a model 66 at the guy. I drew my 6.5 inch 25-2 Smith and pointed it at the fellow and calmy asked (yes I got an ass chewing afterwards), "Do loud noises bother you?" The guy immediately complied.

 

[Battlespace]

Right after I returned from Vietnam, 1971, I was driving home from a movie with my now wife when we saw some people with flashlights along the highway. I stopped thinking there might have been an accident. One person walked up to the driver window and I rolled it down to talk. He stuck a 155mm howitzer muzzle into into my ear! That is what it looked like. He asked if I had seen his daughter. I told him no we had not. He told me to tell her to get her butt home if I did. I assured him we would and as soon as the howitzer was out of the window, I put the pedal to the metal. I am certain that Dodge Charger would have outdistanced any howitzer rounds coming my way. Was I intimidated? I think so. BTW, I bought my first handgun a few days later and have carried ever since.

 

[cratz2]

Well, never having been on the business end of a cops gun, I don't really know first hand. As far as civilian carry goes, a revolver clears up the idea of the gun possibly not being loaded!

I seem to recall a review long ago (early to mid 80s, maybe? of one of the smaller Detonics models, I believe) that made a reference to the big bore, short barrel combo... Something to the effect of, "in the right light, the bad guy can see the bullet"

I also seem to recall from some source that silver pistols and revolvers are suppposed to be more intimidating than blued/parkerized/black etc...

 

[Jeff White]

I have never had anyone I held at gunpoint in the course of an arrest comment on how intimidating the weapon was. Model 65 and 66 S&W revolvers, Beretta 92F, S&W 5906 and Glock 21 being the duty handguns over the years.

I did overhear some comments about the shotguns and machine guns (actually Colt R6731 AR15A3 Tactical Carbines and R6920 LE Carbines) made by some bystanders in the neighborhood early one evening when we went with some DOC offficers to check the house of a relative of an escaped convict (he wasn't there).

Jeff

 

[orangeninja]

The most AWE inspiring defensive weapon alive is probably one of the oldest designs...the 12ga. Double Barrel. Like a 20 inch Stoeger. We're talking change of underwear scary.

 

[bad_dad_brad]

It is that Dirty Harry thing!

 

[Marshall]

I've found that a simple flesh grazing is pretty intimidating to BG's! Capping off the left or right pinky toe usually gets the point across too.