'Iraq shows Kalashnikovs are still the best'

['Card]

Kalashnikov says Iraq shows his gun is still best

Kalashnikov says Iraq shows his gun is still best
Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:13am ET167
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used (Kalashnikov) AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."

Some U.S. troops in Iraq have reportedly taken to using AK-47s in preference to the standard-issue M-16. The Cold War-era gun, renowned for its durability and easy handling, is plentiful in Iraq.

Kalashnikov designed his first weapon in 1947 and is still chief constructor at Izhmash arms factory in Izhevsk in the Urals mountains.

The factory's director Vladimir Grodetsky told the news conference that around a billion rifles had been produced around the world using parts of Kalashnikovs or based on the same design, only 10-12 percent of which were made in Russia.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

Linkage.

I'm not sure I agree with him. I've always felt like the AK-47 was designed so that in about 20 minutes you could teach an illiterate peasant to have a reasonable chance of scaring someone at 100 yards without shooting himself in the foot. I reckon it's pretty hard to argue with the guy, though. Results and popularity speak for themselves.

 

['Card]

Crap. I looked around to make sure this hadn't already been posted, but didn't see an identical thread title in the rifle forum. My bad. Mods please feel free to delete.

 

[Preacherman]

I have to agree with Mikhail. I have the utmost respect for the AK in terms of its reliability and functionality. Sure, it's not as accurate as the AR in some incarnations, but as Correia points out, a modern-production Saiga or Vepr is at least a 2MOA gun, probably better. I've been shot twice with AK's, and know from all-too-painful personal experience how effective the 7.62x39 round is. My personal choice in a combat carbine will always be an AK over an AR. If I'm stuck with a US weapon, I'll take a Kel-Tec SU-16C over an AR, thanks very much.

 

[c_yeager]

How many of these 2MOA AKs are out in Iraq?

Last I heard, which could be way out of date, the Iraqi forces were being armed with new Bulgarian AKs, which are probably damn close to the Russians in terms of accuracy.

 

[LAK]

Under the current doctrines first round hit probability would not seem to be an issue. What has been the ratio of rounds fired for each dead enemy in Iraq? What was it; 25,000 rounds per dead enemy during WW2, 50,000 in Korea and much higher during the Vietnam war?

Did the NVA and VC complain about the accuracy of their SKSs and AKs? Did any failing in the accuracy department really affect their practical fighting utility? Did it lessen our own casualties?

--------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[RangerHAAF]

IMO, the AK-47 is the best modern day battle rifle in terms of practical combat shooting. It is reliable and won't jam on you when you need it. It is accurate within the practical shooting parameters that the average soldier will encounter(100-200 yards).

The modern M-16A2 is a good and hyper accurate rifle but it is too sensitive to dirt, carbon and foreign matter. It kills the enemy, which is enough but I've never really been a fan of it.

I hunt with an AK-47 and I think that it's a great, practical all around weapon. I'll take a 7.62 round over a 5.56 round any day.

 

[ghost squire]

7.62 NATO BEATS THEM ALL!

*runs away*

 

[1911JMB]

I agree GS. I'd take a FAL or M-14 over an AK any day.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"It is reliable and won't jam on you when you need it."


I have to disagree somewhat. The last time I took my SAR1 into the woods for plinking, it jammed 3-4 times. I was using Wolf FMJ's. I've never had any trouble with jamming when I used Winchester ammo.

 

[grimjaw]

AK47 - the McDonalds of the gun world.

jmm

 

[High Planes Drifter]

7.62 NATO BEATS THEM ALL!

*runs away*
----------------------------------------------

+1
Gotta love the sound that a .308 slug makes when it hits a steel pie plate.
Ahhhh, that my friend, is music

 

[carnaby]

Aren't the Finnish Sako/Valmet and Israeli Galil versions of the AK supposed to be superior weapons? How do they stack up compared to the Rusky made/designed stuff, and also to the AR?

 

[taliv]

have to agree with Mikhail. I have the utmost respect for the AK in terms of its reliability and functionality. Sure, it's not as accurate as the AR in some incarnations, but as Correia points out, a modern-production Saiga or Vepr is at least a 2MOA gun, probably better. I've been shot twice with AK's, and know from all-too-painful personal experience how effective the 7.62x39 round is. My personal choice in a combat carbine will always be an AK over an AR. If I'm stuck with a US weapon, I'll take a Kel-Tec SU-16C over an AR, thanks very much.

preacher, i normally have the utmost respect for your opinion... but "i've been shot twice with x and lived to tell you about it" isn't exactly a stellar recommendation for a caliber.

in fact, right now, there's probably a bunch of guys in some 3rd world hellhole talking smack about the 7.62x39 saying the round's ineffective since they shot you twice and you're still around.


are you just testing us here to see if we're reading what you write?

 

[John G]

Oh, I don't know. I'd probably give a huge thumbs up to any rifle which failed to kill me!

 

[American By Blood]

Last I heard, which could be way out of date, the Iraqi forces were being armed with new Bulgarian AKs, which are probably damn close to the Russians in terms of accuracy.

Bulgarian milspec AKs are actually more accurate and better built than their Russian brothers. The sporterized Saigas and Veprs, though, have to compete with more traditional hunting rifles and tend to be very accurate.

Thankfully for the American GIs, some of the rifles being used by the insurgents are hopelessly inacurrate. Apparently a fair number of them are using the infamous hand-crafted AKs from the hills of Pakistan. I've read that the metallurgy on the barrels is so bad that they're basically ruined if you put a full 30 round mag through them on full auto. And, well, the various enemy factions in Iraq aren't exactly known for their fire discipline. Most of them probably wreck their barrel as soon as they're handed a weapon by emptying a mag into the air and yelling "allah hu akbarrrrrrr!"

I have to disagree somewhat. The last time I took my SAR1 into the woods for plinking, it jammed 3-4 times. I was using Wolf FMJ's. I've never had any trouble with jamming when I used Winchester ammo.

No offense, but that may have less to do with the AK design and more to do with poor Rumanian manufacturing. The market is flooded with SARs, WASRS, ROMAKs, etc right now, but they're not the best examples of the family. You can't beat the price, though. Get familar with the platform with your SAR and save up for a Bulgarian from Global Trades/Armory USA. You'll be glad you did.

Of course, it could have been the ammo. Like all AK shooters I use Wolf ammo. It's one of the few brands any of us can still get. But I have to say, I've never had another make of 7.62sov shoot so dirty and jam so frequently. If it weren't about 50 cents per round I'd shoot nothing but Winchester. Granted, if the tension and violence in the Middle East keeps sucking up the ammo supply we all might just have to do that anyway.

7.62 NATO BEATS THEM ALL!

*runs away*

You're making me wish the FAL I put on order today didn't have a 10-12 week build time.

 

[ghost squire]

You're making me wish the FAL I put on order today didn't have a 10-12 week build time.

At least you can get one! :banghead:

California!

 

[Richard]

If you have ever seen an interview with Mikhail Kalashnikov you know the only thing that exceeds the number of AK47s made is his ego. Mikhail Kalashnikov does not appear to be ill tempered etc; he just thinks very highly of himself and his products. Regards, Richard

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I take the newspaper article as being a newspaper article;
more the newsman's spin than the words of Mikhail.

One billion made? The figure I have seen is thirty to
sixty million, counting ALL variants and countries. Anyone
have better figures?

 

[1911JMB]

Ian Hog once said the figure was more like 75 million, but I have no way of verifying that.

 

[czhen]

To summarize

AK is great for spray and pray in short distance battle
AR is great for spray, pray and in short distance battle
med and long distance battlefield.

CZhen

 

[USSR]

If you have ever seen an interview with Mikhail Kalashnikov you know the only thing that exceeds the number of AK47s made is his ego. Mikhail Kalashnikov does not appear to be ill tempered etc; he just thinks very highly of himself and his products.

I deal with Russians all the time, and all I can say is, it's a Russian thing. Still, they are not anywhere's near as annoying as the French.

Don

 

[Pafrmu]

AR vs. AK
M14 vs Fal
9mm vs .45
My dad vs. Your dad

"Can't we all just get along?" -Rodney King

 

[Sewerman]

If it were my butt on the line i will pick up my Saiga over my m4gery. I wouldnt even have to think about it.

 

[goon]

As was stated above, "better" depends on what you want to do with it.
If the only target that presents itself at 100 yards is obscured by stuff that can stop or deflect bullets I want an AR. In a post-apocalyptic world where my chances of finding a spare extractor spring were nonexistent the AK has an advantage.
On the other hand, ammo for the AK has been kind of spotty lately. At least the AR fires a round that is very common here in the US. We don't have to depend on it to be imported anyway.
Realistically, I think the FAL has both beaten. It has range, power, firepower, common domestically manufactured ammo that isn't too expensive and that can be tailored to kill just about anything in the US. Mine are more accurate than all but one of the AK's I have owned and work better than any M-16 or AR I have ever shot.
But that would be a whole other thread hi-jack.

 

[ghost squire]

If the only target that presents itself at 100 yards is obscured by stuff that can stop or deflect bullets I want an AR.

Huh? I think the only thing the .223 has better penetration on is steel plate. Both will penetrate a car well.

Although I agree with the last half of your post