'Iraq shows Kalashnikovs are still the best'
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ghost squire
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If a British soldier lost his bren gun, say while swimming ashore on D-Day, it was a death sentence or something... A court martial maybe.
Hah. "The myth of the American rifleman", it's called. Yes, some US troops could shoot. Yes, many could not.
I've owned variants of all three weapons systems (M16, AK47, FAL).
If I was doing CQB, despite problems I had with numerous malfs in my M16A4 in Basic (while crawling through sand), I'd take an M4. It's lightweight, I'm quick with it, and I have more trigger time with an M4 than any firearm.
If I rode to battle, and never went far from a vehicle, and fought in the desert, I'd take an FAL.
If I marched, and believed I might be low or commando crawling through sand, I'd take an AK.
See? Something for everyone.
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gs, since a Bren gun is a machine gun, it's kind of hard to imagine many folks being able to swim with it. Maybe you mean a Sten gun?
Even then, honestly, that sounds like a legend, not real history. Stuff happens. More stuff happens in combat. Even more stuff happens when combat is mixed with water assaults under fire. Sure, they hung poor saps who assaulted the beach and lost a 4$ bullet hose while taking fire from arty, mortars and MGs...
John
I'm talking accuracy. I would prefer to not have to shoot through something. Regardless of what is said, I have seen bullets from full power .30 caliber rifles get deflected on twigs during deer season. I would prefer to try and shoot through a "hole" rather than trying to shoot through other stuff. The AK would penetrate better on most stuff but it generally isn't as accurate and therefore is not as good for that. Realistically speaking though, an AR or FAL isn't really meant for that either.
At any rate, I still choose the FAL.
ghost squire
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And would not, according to some... oh well another discussion.
goon: I see now, thanks. But one thing I will say is that if someone is directly behind a bush or brush, a .30 caliber has a better chance of penetrating the brush and still hitting them without deflecting insanely. But if they are 5 feet behind it you're right, it probably doesn't matter. Another thing, is that if someone is directly behind cover like a dirt berm, sand berm, coconut log, concrete wall, etc its not necessarily a bad idea to take the shot through the obstacle. Depending on thickness, the 7.62 NATO will go through all of them, and a 5.56 won't.
Maybe I should have commented just a little on some choices I made.
When you're marching, light is good. Heavy is bad.
M4 is fairly lightweight. AMMO is light. Light good. Heavy bad. Light ammo means more can be carried.
More ammo= more targets addressed. Having ammo to hit enemy with good. Firing all AMAZINGLY CAPABLE ROUNDS! at enemy, and using dirty looks vs. incoming fire after all SUPER! rounds fired bad.
For those who want to comment on wussies who can't carry a little weight, my primary armament used to be a 60mm mortar...which I carried, with bipod and M8 baseplate.
Light good. Heavy bad.
Unless you can ride...
When you're marching, light is good. Heavy is bad.
M4 is fairly lightweight. AMMO is light. Light good. Heavy bad. Light ammo means more can be carried.
More ammo= more targets addressed. Having ammo to hit enemy with good. Firing all AMAZINGLY CAPABLE ROUNDS! at enemy, and using dirty looks vs. incoming fire after all SUPER! rounds fired bad.
For those who want to comment on wussies who can't carry a little weight, my primary armament used to be a 60mm mortar...which I carried, with bipod and M8 baseplate.
Light good. Heavy bad.
Unless you can ride...
ghost squire
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Do you want to know what starts a zombie epidemic? AR vs AK and What Gun For Zombie/SHTF threads. Regular people, just like you and me, read them. Once in a while they snap, bite a few people, and turn them into zombies. From there it spreads.
You've doomed us all Andy!
"When hell is full, those turned undead by reading AR vs AK threads will walk the earth"
Reverend MC Hammer
You've doomed us all Andy!
"When hell is full, those turned undead by reading AR vs AK threads will walk the earth"
Reverend MC Hammer
I don't know what the context of this video is, but it addresses the topic.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1854875
It's an ABC news report interviewing what sounds like a British contractor in Iraq. The contractor gives a very basic breakdown of the rifle, explains why he doesn't think the claim of the AK being superior in usage (or in general) is true.
The reporter asks several questions that lead me to think he's anti-gun. I don't know why they don't show either of their faces, but it gives the interview a kind of 'undercover reporting' feel. Could be the contractor just didn't want his face shown.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1854875
It's an ABC news report interviewing what sounds like a British contractor in Iraq. The contractor gives a very basic breakdown of the rifle, explains why he doesn't think the claim of the AK being superior in usage (or in general) is true.
The reporter asks several questions that lead me to think he's anti-gun. I don't know why they don't show either of their faces, but it gives the interview a kind of 'undercover reporting' feel. Could be the contractor just didn't want his face shown.
ghost squire
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Interesting... apparently it fires both 7.62 long and 7.62 short?
ghost squire
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LOL! Although if he could get it to fire 7.62x54r I would LOVE to see that, especially on full auto. I do enjoy fireworks.
I asked a Vietnam vet if guys used AKs often. He said "no." He explained the AK-47 has a very distinctive sound to it- which is obviously different than an M-16. If you suddenly heard an AK shooting in the jungle, you tended to turn and direct fire at the source of that sound, just out of instinct. Thus it might not have been the smartest move to randomly pick up and start using an AK in Vietnam.
The sad thing about Kalashnikov, the man, is he currently lives in a crappy Moscow apartment on a low pension. If he had lived in a capitalist society, he could have profited on the design of the AK-47. Imagine what the patent would have been worth?? Or if had been getting a commision on each rifle produced? Even if he had gotten a fraction of the profits, he would be living in luxury. Ahh socialism!
The sad thing about Kalashnikov, the man, is he currently lives in a crappy Moscow apartment on a low pension. If he had lived in a capitalist society, he could have profited on the design of the AK-47. Imagine what the patent would have been worth?? Or if had been getting a commision on each rifle produced? Even if he had gotten a fraction of the profits, he would be living in luxury. Ahh socialism!
molonlabe
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Ah, But he has vodka
billcavazos
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AK-47 the best??
I dont think so. The Ak may be the most popular assault rifle but is way way down the line compared to the M16. The AK is a piece of crap when it comes to a riflemans rifle. Not a precision weapon at all, no accuracy to speak of. Even the sniper AK called the Dragunov cant shoot under 2 inches at 100 yards. Soldiers ditching their M16 for Ak, no never happend. The only time soldiers may rather have an AK would be in place of a pistol or if you have nothing at all. Yes the AK is hugely popular but not what you would consider a fine weapon. Its just a bullet spitter...
I dont think so. The Ak may be the most popular assault rifle but is way way down the line compared to the M16. The AK is a piece of crap when it comes to a riflemans rifle. Not a precision weapon at all, no accuracy to speak of. Even the sniper AK called the Dragunov cant shoot under 2 inches at 100 yards. Soldiers ditching their M16 for Ak, no never happend. The only time soldiers may rather have an AK would be in place of a pistol or if you have nothing at all. Yes the AK is hugely popular but not what you would consider a fine weapon. Its just a bullet spitter...
possum
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I have personally seen a romanian psl print groups of 1 1/4" at 100 meters, with match ammo.
i wouldn't ditch my m16 but if i was out of ammo i would sling it for the simple fact of keeping control of senstive items, not just the rifle but the m68, and aims devices and so on and pick up an ak in a heart beat if that what was there.heck i would use an m231 if i had to!
Did I read the before post correctly "...Jessica Lynch Convoy... wish they had AK's instead of M16s..."
Maybe if those undiciplined truck drivers had cleaned thier M16's they wouldn't have jammed, maybe if they hadn't gotten lost in a combat zone and all the other variables in between that lead to thier dimise.
The problem wasn't the M16, it was they were lazy pigs that didn't take care of thier tools. It would also be nice if the little brat had thanked the Marines for saveing her, which she never did, so it just shows the type of person she is.
The AK has a few perks, but I wouldn't drop my M16A4 for one. Wasn't too impressed with the AK's in Iraq, except for the Bulgarian AK's... still wouldn't trade my M16 for one, but then again, maybe I have a knowledge for the operateing system and how to keep a M16 functioning in many different enviroments.
Maybe if those undiciplined truck drivers had cleaned thier M16's they wouldn't have jammed, maybe if they hadn't gotten lost in a combat zone and all the other variables in between that lead to thier dimise.
The problem wasn't the M16, it was they were lazy pigs that didn't take care of thier tools. It would also be nice if the little brat had thanked the Marines for saveing her, which she never did, so it just shows the type of person she is.
The AK has a few perks, but I wouldn't drop my M16A4 for one. Wasn't too impressed with the AK's in Iraq, except for the Bulgarian AK's... still wouldn't trade my M16 for one, but then again, maybe I have a knowledge for the operateing system and how to keep a M16 functioning in many different enviroments.
possum
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What do you have one of those match grade sks's that i hear so much about.
in my personal experience with my own firearms the sks is on par with the ak and accuracy is identicle. i would rather have the rifle with more capacity and less reload time. what possible advantage and why is the sks more accurat e in your opinion, and what does the sks have that the ak dosen't that will allow a shooter to "at least hit the target." please explain thanksand if you are ever around the area that i am, i would love to have a compettition.i'll take the ak and you can have sks!billcavazos
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ak
Sorry Possum, 1and 1/4 with any kind of AK varient is stretching it. You may have witnessed a world record!!!
Sorry Possum, 1and 1/4 with any kind of AK varient is stretching it. You may have witnessed a world record!!!
I love these threads. People rant and rave, insult each other and give me the confidence that I will survive an encounter.
Have you fired both?
Do you know the difference between acceptance standards in eastern bloc and western bloc armies?
Can you take them apart, clean them and reasemble them?
Have you fired them in low light?
Have you fired them while running - no not running and stopping, but firing while running?
Can you pick up a jammed one and clear it?
Have you ever paid for training - no not military training, but training in shooting the specific ak or ar?
Is your familarity with these weapon systems limited to website "information?
Gosh, I lernt a lot!
Have you fired both?
Do you know the difference between acceptance standards in eastern bloc and western bloc armies?
Can you take them apart, clean them and reasemble them?
Have you fired them in low light?
Have you fired them while running - no not running and stopping, but firing while running?
Can you pick up a jammed one and clear it?
Have you ever paid for training - no not military training, but training in shooting the specific ak or ar?
Is your familarity with these weapon systems limited to website "information?
Gosh, I lernt a lot!
possum
Member
Ok dude, i guess i saw a world record, I know what happened i was there take it for a grain of salt like the way i take the whole ak is crap and ar platform is crap idea.
1)I own both, and fired both extensively
2)yes
3)yes, the ar-15 down completly to bare bones.
4)yes i have fired them both in low light and with the m16 with several aim's devices
5)what does running have to do with anything, why not stand on your head!
6) yes clearing any weapon from sidearms to 240b'2 i can handle!
Now by no means does that shot group i witnessed mean that every psl will do that, even with match ammo. But with a romainian psl and custom handloads i have seen groups printed at 1 1/4. maybe god was possesing the gun to shoot so good, i don't know but I know what it did. And as soon as i get to the range again I am gonna bring some targets from the range of what my stock mak-90 and wolf 154gr sp can do!
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