Cesiumsponge
Member
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat!
Ireland. PLEASE READ.
- Thread starter sense
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Dan from MI
Member
That's the case in Washington DC and Chicago as well.
If I was a criminal, I don't need a gun to kill you.
I'm from Michigan. I know all about Michael Moore. Michael Moore is a proven liar. He's not even from Flint like he says in an attempt for "Street Credibility".
And I'll put the murder rate in my are against the UK or Ireland's any day of the week. Last year, my entire county(of 175,000) had 0 homicides. We also have 6000 NRA members.
And if you want to hold the UK up as a model of what's right crimewise, clean up Glasgow first. It's murder rate is over 5 times that of Austin Texas which is of similar size.
Dan from MI
Member
Glasgow - 127 murders - population around 577,869 (800,000 if including entire Metro area)
Tuscon AZ - 47 murders, 514,618 people
Denver CO - 63 murders, 565,909 people
Washington DC - 248 murders, 563,384 (Total gun ban)
Jacksonville FL - 92 murders, 776,417 people
Indianapolis - 107 murders, 800167 people
Baltimore MD - 270 murders, 644544 people
Charlotte NC - 66 murders, 668003 people
Columbus OH - 109 murders, 726151 people
Oklahoma City - 49 murders, 521,681 people
Portland OR - 27 murders, 545271 people
Memphis TN - 126 murders, 653,858 people
Nashville TN - 74 murders, 554,888 people
Austin TX - 27 murders, 682,319 people
El Paso TX - 21 murders, 586,392 people
Fort Worth TX - 57 murders, 576339 people
San Antonio TX - 85 murders, 1,212,789
Seattle WA - 34 murders, 576,296
Milwaukee WI - 109 murders, 594,269
Tuscon AZ - 47 murders, 514,618 people
Denver CO - 63 murders, 565,909 people
Washington DC - 248 murders, 563,384 (Total gun ban)
Jacksonville FL - 92 murders, 776,417 people
Indianapolis - 107 murders, 800167 people
Baltimore MD - 270 murders, 644544 people
Charlotte NC - 66 murders, 668003 people
Columbus OH - 109 murders, 726151 people
Oklahoma City - 49 murders, 521,681 people
Portland OR - 27 murders, 545271 people
Memphis TN - 126 murders, 653,858 people
Nashville TN - 74 murders, 554,888 people
Austin TX - 27 murders, 682,319 people
El Paso TX - 21 murders, 586,392 people
Fort Worth TX - 57 murders, 576339 people
San Antonio TX - 85 murders, 1,212,789
Seattle WA - 34 murders, 576,296
Milwaukee WI - 109 murders, 594,269
ZenMasterJG
Member
Dan:
Good stats, there. And i'd like to add that in good 'ole maryland, while its not impossible to get a concealed carry license, its really
difficult. SO the two highest murder rates on that list are also probably the two hardest places on there to CCW.
Good stats, there. And i'd like to add that in good 'ole maryland, while its not impossible to get a concealed carry license, its really
difficult. SO the two highest murder rates on that list are also probably the two hardest places on there to CCW.Ok, ive read over it all;
Good 1st night debate most of you! A lot of you had valuable input or statistics to prove your case. Well done and a round of applause, put together you could convince.
To the poeple who argued purly based on opinion, tghose who cant say anything but Bwaa! Troll! or Spellchecker! or started teasing the opponents name/age/nationality/education etc,
a word of advice: Don't argue in a debate if you cant make a valid point you are just proving to the Anti/opponent the stereotype that all gun lovers are red- necks with no education.
i declare the debate over, ill be on the other boards asing what kind of guns are best for use in sci-fi comics. (gotta do the reaserch)
Good 1st night debate most of you! A lot of you had valuable input or statistics to prove your case. Well done and a round of applause, put together you could convince.
To the poeple who argued purly based on opinion, tghose who cant say anything but Bwaa! Troll! or Spellchecker! or started teasing the opponents name/age/nationality/education etc,
a word of advice: Don't argue in a debate if you cant make a valid point you are just proving to the Anti/opponent the stereotype that all gun lovers are red- necks with no education.
i declare the debate over, ill be on the other boards asing what kind of guns are best for use in sci-fi comics. (gotta do the reaserch)
nico
Member
have you read any of your own posts? What fact have you posted?
It's not like us to bash some poor new guy over the head like this. Granted, he did come on a little strong in the beginning but it is still our place to educate, not berate and belittle. I feel dirtier for having read all this.
Sense, check back in from time to time. The majority of us simply want to correct this "image" that anti-gun people and people who, like yourself, wouldn't, couldn't know better not being a part of our American culture--the gun culture.
I have an Irish woman that works with me and I have known her for a few years now. She thinks just like sense, or at least she did until I started educating her. I even gave her a copy of Armed and Female to read. Need to see if she ever read it.
Greg
Sense, check back in from time to time. The majority of us simply want to correct this "image" that anti-gun people and people who, like yourself, wouldn't, couldn't know better not being a part of our American culture--the gun culture.
I have an Irish woman that works with me and I have known her for a few years now. She thinks just like sense, or at least she did until I started educating her. I even gave her a copy of Armed and Female to read. Need to see if she ever read it.
Greg
no need to check back, i need an all night forums to test links and things, as well as a place to referance sci-fi guns. i wont be leaving. besides, it'll do you go to have an ante in your midst. Just play nice is all.
umm nico, debates over.
umm nico, debates over.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
That was a debate?
Wow.
Wow.
cuchulainn
Member
I'll call your ante and raise you fifty dollars, er fifty punts or fifty euros or whatever.
RevDisk
Member
Apparently you have not heard of the Isle of Pines in lovely Cuba. Makes Gitmo look like paradise. As for Communist Vietnam, hardly a lovely place. After unification, a lot of people got shot in the back of the head or sent to re-education camps. Vietnam also has very strict gun control laws. Any civilian found with a firearm is shot.
Perhaps that is the root of your issue with firearms. You distrust 'the masses' and prefer to enslave them rather than trust them. Beware of what you wish for, you might get it.
You seem to be operating under a mistake. That our firearm laws should be based off crime rates. This is incorrect. Even if our crime rates were ten times what they are, this would not matter. Our civil liberties are codified in our Constitution, and a set of amendments called the "Bill of Rights".
Granted, our Constitution and BoR have pretty much been ignored for a long time. It's not right, nor legal, ethical or moral. We're unfortunately in the position were two nearly identical parties have a lock on the government. Well, one party at the moment. We've made progress in some areas (CCW reform, for instance), and lost a lot of freedoms in others (see the Patriot Act and other antiterrorism laws). It's an on-going struggle.
Besides. This is all theory. Suppose all guns were banned tomorrow in the US. This would be a violation of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, and Seventh amendments to our Constitution. Ignoring that for a second. How exactly would you propose rounding them up?
Debate's over? I understand that you are young but what you are doing is very rude. This is a community of people who have excellent educational backgrounds, millenia of real-world wisdom, and all-in-all are fine human beings. You come over to our house and stir up a hornet's nest and then skip out. It is the equivalent of letting your dog crap on your neighbor's lawn and then just trotting away. In fact, I am surprised that you will not be asking about which firearms to use in the sci-fi story.
Mornard
Member
In ireland and the uk, we have no guns. all guns are banned. We are not afraid to wal
You are so full of crap. You do have guns in the UK, All guns are not banned. Most handguns are banned. There is a great deal of hunting and shooting in the UK, and what is being used, if guns are banned? And rather than trying to be reasonable, just let me say the rest of your ideas are full of crap too... I am no longer in the mood with being reasonable on these topics. Reasonableness will never overcome ignorance, so I shall not bother.
You are so full of crap. You do have guns in the UK, All guns are not banned. Most handguns are banned. There is a great deal of hunting and shooting in the UK, and what is being used, if guns are banned? And rather than trying to be reasonable, just let me say the rest of your ideas are full of crap too... I am no longer in the mood with being reasonable on these topics. Reasonableness will never overcome ignorance, so I shall not bother.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
What does it take for a troll to get banned around here, anyway?
richyoung
Member
An Open Invitation to Sense
First of all - how old are you? Do you travel alone, or with your family still? I live in Lawton, Oklahoma, (I work on Fort Sill army base...) and we have an extra bedroom. I'm sure the msrs wouldn't mind if you stayed with us a week or two, and came and saw for yourself. I'll even take you to a range and let you shoot, and introduce you to some fellow gun enthusiasts. We can even work in a few day trips to the OKC memorial, or even the Alamo. You might find it hard to believe, but I once believed much as you do now...unfortunately, only time and experience will show you that what they teach in school isn't the whole story, by a long stretch.
BTW, some guns that "look cool" for science fiction are the Desert Eagle, Baby Eagle, any number of Glocks, german MG-42, Dardick Tround revolver, S&W "Lemmon squeezer", broomhandle mauser, luger, anything by Calico with the helical magazine, Thompson SMB, FN FAL, M60, any of the motor-driven Gattling style miniguns, GyroJet, H&K MP5. Hope that gets you started...
First of all - how old are you? Do you travel alone, or with your family still? I live in Lawton, Oklahoma, (I work on Fort Sill army base...) and we have an extra bedroom. I'm sure the msrs wouldn't mind if you stayed with us a week or two, and came and saw for yourself. I'll even take you to a range and let you shoot, and introduce you to some fellow gun enthusiasts. We can even work in a few day trips to the OKC memorial, or even the Alamo. You might find it hard to believe, but I once believed much as you do now...unfortunately, only time and experience will show you that what they teach in school isn't the whole story, by a long stretch.
BTW, some guns that "look cool" for science fiction are the Desert Eagle, Baby Eagle, any number of Glocks, german MG-42, Dardick Tround revolver, S&W "Lemmon squeezer", broomhandle mauser, luger, anything by Calico with the helical magazine, Thompson SMB, FN FAL, M60, any of the motor-driven Gattling style miniguns, GyroJet, H&K MP5. Hope that gets you started...
nico
Member
I'm guessing no older than 12. The combination of thinking communism just hasn't had any good leaders, self centeredness, and typos (I could type reasonably quickly and intelligibly by the time I was 14 and I didn't even have the internet) show she's still got a lot of learning/maturing to do.
So she is a kid, so she stirred up a hornets nest, her typing (and possibly spelling too) sucks and she's not done enough reading on communism. That's not enough to call for her to be banned.
It is enough for there to be a need for some things to be explained patiently and politely, as some have done. To be honest, when a thread like this crops up there is a massive over reaction from many members, be that the tone and content of their posts, or the sheer volume of replies. Scares people off and never gives them a chance to come back at you. Especially unfair on a kid.
Sense, welcome to THR. Your intro was a little rough, partly due to your argument being ill thought out. Stay, read and ask polite questions if you want to get a handle on this aspect of American culture, I think I'm just starting to get there myself.
It is enough for there to be a need for some things to be explained patiently and politely, as some have done. To be honest, when a thread like this crops up there is a massive over reaction from many members, be that the tone and content of their posts, or the sheer volume of replies. Scares people off and never gives them a chance to come back at you. Especially unfair on a kid.
Sense, welcome to THR. Your intro was a little rough, partly due to your argument being ill thought out. Stay, read and ask polite questions if you want to get a handle on this aspect of American culture, I think I'm just starting to get there myself.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
I disagree. I see no obligation for us to put up with illiterate morons with a snotty attidue and a total lack of sense (no pun intended). Of course, that's for the management to decide. But there is quite a difference between posting a controversial opinion on the forum, and simply showing your ass.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
sense, what debate??? You were debating? I sincerely hope you join the debate club at school for you desperately need the experience.
By the way, you have referenced science fiction several times. My signature line comes from a science fiction novel by A.E. van Vogt:"The Weapon Shops of Isher."
By the way, you have referenced science fiction several times. My signature line comes from a science fiction novel by A.E. van Vogt:"The Weapon Shops of Isher."
Important logical point
Who makes up the government if not people? Also, add the old homage, "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".
non-Sense would trust the power of government made up by people who can't be trusted.
My head is spinning.
Who makes up the government if not people? Also, add the old homage, "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".
non-Sense would trust the power of government made up by people who can't be trusted.
My head is spinning.
Ryder
Member
Guess it's true, they do have a lot of sheep over there. 
"if someone trys to rob a bank wiht only a knife, its likely that he wont do any more harm then a minor stab wound before he is caught."
>>The ignorance in that statement is stupendous. I've taken heads clean off with a kinfe. One swipe. Happens fast, don't blink or you'll miss it.
"If there are guns lying around the house your children are at a huge risk. kids are curious, if you say 'NEVER touch that' they arnt listening. or at least they eventually stop listening."
>>I and all my brothers, sisters, and cousins grew up around easily available LOADED firearms. That's a lot of kids. I myself had 4 brothers and sisters. Don't think I've yet met all of my cousins. Why didn't we ever touch them and have an "accident"? Let me know when you find out about that will you? I am very curious to know the answer.
"or if somone is feeling a bit deppressed or angry (we all do occasionly) you are doing the worst thing possibe; arming them.."
>>I am expertly qualified to address this. I have owned guns for over 30 years and I am always mad about something, sometimes depressed, but not usually since being mad at things keeps me happy. I've walked around in public with a loaded gun off and on for much of that time. No problem. How does being depressed or mad equate to being violent? Those are 3 different things. Add guns to the mix and you have a 4'th different thing. There's no hard link except in your imagination.
"isn't it better to have the time to run or call the police then have blood on your hands or pumping from the fresh hole in your chest?"
>> I must be unlucky or something because even though we are swimming in guns I don't personally know of a single person who has been seriously injured by a gun. Not even by accident.
>>You have many misconceptions. That can happen. I find that I have them too from time to time. No big deal if you're willing to learn. Anyway, sci-fi guns? I'd say check out Buck Rogers. That style is about as good as it gets as far as I'm concerned.
"if someone trys to rob a bank wiht only a knife, its likely that he wont do any more harm then a minor stab wound before he is caught."
>>The ignorance in that statement is stupendous. I've taken heads clean off with a kinfe. One swipe. Happens fast, don't blink or you'll miss it.
"If there are guns lying around the house your children are at a huge risk. kids are curious, if you say 'NEVER touch that' they arnt listening. or at least they eventually stop listening."
>>I and all my brothers, sisters, and cousins grew up around easily available LOADED firearms. That's a lot of kids. I myself had 4 brothers and sisters. Don't think I've yet met all of my cousins. Why didn't we ever touch them and have an "accident"? Let me know when you find out about that will you? I am very curious to know the answer.
"or if somone is feeling a bit deppressed or angry (we all do occasionly) you are doing the worst thing possibe; arming them.."
>>I am expertly qualified to address this. I have owned guns for over 30 years and I am always mad about something, sometimes depressed, but not usually since being mad at things keeps me happy. I've walked around in public with a loaded gun off and on for much of that time. No problem. How does being depressed or mad equate to being violent? Those are 3 different things. Add guns to the mix and you have a 4'th different thing. There's no hard link except in your imagination.
"isn't it better to have the time to run or call the police then have blood on your hands or pumping from the fresh hole in your chest?"
>> I must be unlucky or something because even though we are swimming in guns I don't personally know of a single person who has been seriously injured by a gun. Not even by accident.
>>You have many misconceptions. That can happen. I find that I have them too from time to time. No big deal if you're willing to learn. Anyway, sci-fi guns? I'd say check out Buck Rogers. That style is about as good as it gets as far as I'm concerned.
jefnvk
Member
That describes the majority of kids. Are you simply going to continue to let them think guns = bad, because your message doesn't seem to be going through?
Sindawe
Member
sense: It would do you good to invest in a product such as this: http://www.fornada.com/html/quickspell.html and add this site: http://dictionary.reference.com/ to the bookmarks in your web browser. Trust me, I speak from personal experience on spelling/grammer.
Well, you will NOT get very far in the comics trades if you can not put together a coherent sentence or spell worth a darn.
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richyoung
Member
Sense isn't bad..she's just young! Be patient - I was once a victim of a public education system. Having a father that did two tours in 'nam helped "balance" the views a little better. Remeber, "children are our future"...and "it's for the children"
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