Irish stick fighting

[MillCreek]

This is interesting. I have often pondered one of those Cold Steel blackthorn sticks. I am a big advocate of using two walking poles during hiking, snowshoeing and XC skiing. If I had a walking stick, I would probably put a rubber crutch tip at the base for traction.

 

[AStone]

All our army pugil stick and riot stick training was
two hands that never let go of the stick with either hand.

Well, I had to search that. Found this wikipedia article; then, I recognized the tool and technique (but never knew what it was called; obviously, therefore, I was never in the army.)

From what I can tell, says the newbie, ISF shares some overlap with pugil in terms of blocks and thrusting (I'm so new at this that I don't even really know the proper terms for all the technique, yet), but differs in that there are also a fair amount of one-handed blocks, thrusts and jabs.

After dinner, I want to answer Hso's question about my own (so far limited) training with this, including something that I learned this afternoon while walking to, from and in a beautiful wood about half hour walk from my house. I studied a little segment of Mr. Doyle's video, then practiced that all afternoon. I'm gaining on it.

But first, din din.

 

[AStone]

I am a big advocate of using two walking poles during hiking, snowshoeing and XC skiing.

Millcreek, I've repeatedly in my life tried the two pole thing. It makes so much sense, especially for snowshoeing (which I do) and skiing (which I don't do ... yet). But I can't get used to it. I really disliked walking with two trekking poles.

I guess I'm just too accustomed (since childhood) to have a single stick, and I really like having one hand free.

(Tangent: Speaking of snowshoes, the public wood I was into today reminded me I must buy a pair. The snow on the trail itself was packed down enough to walk, but a foot off the trail, and I'd post hole up to my knees. If the day had been a smidgen warmer - it was just above freezing this afternoon - the trail would have been rough going.)

I'll confess that for snow, I probably like my Black Diamond pole better than my knob stick. (Still, it was fun to practice with it.)

 

[AStone]

After dinner, I want to answer Hso's question about my own (so far limited) training with this, including something that I learned this afternoon while walking to, from and in a beautiful wood about half hour walk from my house.

But, I'm going to flake out, instead. Wound up talking with a girlfriend, doing some writing, and otherwise, goofing off.

I'll get back to this tomorrow.

 

[AStone]

OK, so I'm a day late getting back to this.

Hso, to answer your question about training, I do not yet have a "sparing partner". I'm not really ready for one yet - because I'm still working on basic techniques with shadow boxing and mirror work - and it may take me some time to identify someone here with whom to work out. (I'm new in town, and most of my friends are not so inclined to carry sticks or use them for fighting; they either use other weapons or none at all.)

More to the point, because I'm so new at this, I'm still in the mode of carefully studying - watching and re-watching Glen Doyle's videos one technique at a time, then practicing, perhaps using a pole or tree to gently strike. (I also want to acquire a practice stick like he uses in this training videos. I know where he gets them, but the maker is in Canada and for some reason will not ship to the US.)

I often roll video forward, then click back several times to watch and listen. (His verbal descriptions are quite good; particularly that he offers key points to do and not to do.)

I only wish there was some free app that I could use to run videos in slow motion. He does most of his techniques once or twice in slow mo, but I'd like to slow that down even further.
___________

Example: what I've been working on for several weeks - mostly as I walk, but sometimes in front of a mirror - are "stick punches" (his term) with left and right hand, as he capably illustrates and explains in detail starting at 0:28 sec in this film. (Yes, lesson 1; I am truly a beginner.)

It took me two weeks of practice to get the hang of it. In addition to his key tips of keeping elbow bent and letting the bottom end of the stick bounce off the forearm (not elbow) so that it "re-chambers" immediately, I'm finding that my technique is best described as a left or right jab (from a position with both hands on the stick at about thirds) in which the stick acts like a whip.

I'm practicing high (head), mid-height (solar plexus, elbow) and low punches (as in for knees or groin, or bad dog) I fear the latter - dogs - more than a human attacker, having been attacked by dogs multiple times in my life. That is a major reason that I carry sticks.).

I'm still at the point of working out the kinks on the basic punch technique. My footwork for the punches still needs a lot of work. With the footwork, I feel like the kid that he's tutoring at 2 min into the video.

 

[AStone]

Stick fighting workout tip of the day

Get yourself a 6' barbell bar.
Mine is a regular; 16 lb.

I'd rather have a 5' for logistics - small work out space - but couldn't find one. I like the weight anyway.

At least once a day - I'm trying to do it twice a day with harder workouts every third day - warm up with some dynamic stretching with good music, then for a few minutes with an empty bar, moving it around gently and slowly like you might a 1 lb stick. For example, lift it straight out from "low ready" (arms at rest bar resting against your thighs) come up to a 90 angle(as into a chin from below) with arms straight and/or bent.

Then, practice two-handed punches in slow motion 'til your delts say, "ok, uncle".

Once you're sufficiently warmed up, you can move the bar faster, more explosively. (But don't get too close to that mirror. )

Never hurts to have a few plates around, too, for some versatility in standing exercises. I'm not doing bench presses; no bench here, and not so relevant for me as other exercises. For me as a smaller guy, I can do a great stick prep workout with no more than 35 lbs.

 

[hso]

I'm not really ready for one yet -

Nem,

The best thing to do is start with a trainer and absent that is a partner. Both are much preferable to working solo. A training partner working with you will prevent training errors and ingraining bad habits if the both of your are observant and aware that you're feeling your way through the material. It is a mistake to try to start out just reading and watching video for a physical skill that is inherently a two person dance. Find anyone that is willing to work with you even just to observe and feel the push/pull of simulating the fight. No need to spar, yet.

 

[AStone]

The best thing to do is start with a trainer and absent that is a partner.

I always appreciate your suggestions, Hso, and usually agree with them.

And in general, I would agree with most - though not necessarily all - of what you've written above.

In this case, I'm going to respectfully beg to differ in a partial way, at least for me in my current situation.

But I want to explain what I mean clearly, and that's going to take some careful writing and editing, including a personal story about some of my own experiences with solo training, my learning (and teaching, since I'm a professional teacher) modalities, preferences and experiences.

That may take me a few days ...

 

[JShirley]

Be very careful with that weight bar. Screwing around with one without knowing what I was doing led to a visit to a plastic surgeon at 19. It could have been so much worse.

J

 

[AStone]

^ Hahaaha... yeah, I agree.

That's why I wrote, "But don't get too close to that mirror."

And it definitely should not in any circumstances be used with a sparing partner.

 

[AStone]

I have neither abandoned nor forgotten about this thread, just been super busy with a professional project and out of town some. I intend to get back to it soon; I still owe Hso an explanation about my training philosophy.

I was down in Boston on Thursday and Friday, traveled by bus. Carried my knob stick, walked about town a fair amount, including on the Commons.

For some reason, I felt right at home walking there with my Irish stick.

I wonder why? Hmm. Boston. There must be some connection between Boston and Ireland.

 

[JFrame]

Nematocyst,

Thank you for starting this thread and posting the links to Doyle's videos.

I have considered from time to time carrying (as an adjunct) an implement somewhat less immediately lethal than a gun and knife. And as I grow older, I have become more receptive to the notion of a walking stick.

I read through everyone's observations with interest, and will follow this thread as (hopefully) you and others continue to contribute.

-- J

.

 

[AStone]

J, glad you've joined the conversation.

I am now 60 (going on 40), but I've carried walking sticks since I was 10,
and not just in the woods.

The concept of using one as a SD tool is not completely new to me,
but Glen Doyle's style adds far greater depth than anything I'd considered before.

 

[JFrame]

I am now 60 (going on 40)

I am quickly gaining on you, my friend.

The concept of using one as a SD tool is not completely new to me,
but Glen Doyle's style adds far greater depth than anything I'd considered before.

I have a fleeting familiarity with jo-jutsu from a summer-long course on aikido I took at the "Y," but that's about it for my knowledge on anything to do with sticks of any sort.

I look forward to getting myself edjumuhcated with the Doyle videos, the contributions of everyone on this thread, and beyond...


.

 

[Isaac's Grandpa]

A tophat and cane used to be high fashion for gentlemen. Not so much the tophat today, but I still on occasion use a diamond willow walking stick. No questions asked, they just have to look at my knee.

On a side note. Sometimes the walking stick/cane can look too nice. I did one for a lady in Oregon with a wood spirit carved in it. Someone broke in her car, left all the cd's and took the stick. I felt bad for her but was proud that someone liked my work enough to steal it.

 

[Harley Quinn]

The cane as a weapon, by A. C. Cunningham...Good read...

http://cunninghamcane.blogspot.com/

Sticks and Stones, have been around for a long time as weapons

 

[Fred Fuller]

http://artofcombat.org/ismac/2010/2010IrishMartialArts.htm

Too late for this one, but maybe next year??

lpl

 

[Big Bill]

I make walking sticks out of Choke Cherry wood. BTW, Shillelagh is the name of the Irish fighting stick.

 

[regularjoe]

I am very happy to find this thread! I have been using similar techniques (to the Doyle deal) for several years as an exercise routine. Snapping my heavy Ironwood stick out in punch after punch, always maintaining form, has led to an increase in punching speed as well as a noticeable increase in punching power. It is also VERY effective for offense and defense. Even a very light stick, when snapped out in a fast stick punch, hits hard. It sounds like a fire cracker when I whack a tree with any stick. Any where there is a tree or large bush, there is a weapon! It even works with re bar, pipe, or a framing hammer. The movement is elegant, an extension of your natural punch, with a nitro boost of wrist snap at the end. I am glad you started this thread.
I want to add that my style seems to be more boxing oriented than the Doyle system. A more comfortable and moveable stance, as well as the potential for much faster and more powerful strikes. No dis-respect to the Doyles at all, I just think my stuff suits the street a bit better, and his suits competitions.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I still on occasion use a diamond willow walking stick. No questions asked, they just have to look at my knee.

No they don't. As discusses here before a walking cane is medical equipment and therefore covered by The Americans with Disabilities Act. They can't even enquire into the nature of your disability as that is confidential medical information. On top of that walking canes are legal to posses everywhere.

 

[bikerdoc]

Been following this thread with interest. Im 63 and been using a cane since an 06 injury and some resulting surgeries
I make my own canes and sticks

Like Carl I defaulted to my army pugil and bayonet training, About a year ago I found a kindly old oriental master who helped me expand on what was ingrained in me.
He has made me more proficient and expanded my ability to react effectively in a variety of situations. What is cool is we practice in Kumate(sp) meaning slow motion. then go into full blown sparing.
At home I practice and train on a tires secured to a tree and have a friend that is also interested.

Sounds silly but those strofoam pool noodles, cut to whatever size and fill in the hollow center with tightly rolled newspaper allows the grand kids to practice with me - they attack and I defend, five year olds can be tough - they are unpredictibly agressive and creative and take great pleasure in the game. I learn a lot silly as it sounds.

Serious though my canes are part of who I am now and I am confident in my ability.

Keep the good stuff coming gentlemen.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Cane fighting is a very interesting study.