Vern Humphrey
Member
Which is why I do virtually all my practice from the offhand position.
Iron sights, a dying skill?
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You are correct, I just assumed that all of the guys who shoot like that, have a bench and sandbags in their deer stand, and have the distance measured off a 100 yards exactly.
I shoot standing and kneeling with peep sights. To me the bench is just for sighting in, after that I shoot like I plan to hunt.
One other thought just crossed my mind, how come on the internet everyone has a rifle that shoots sub-min. of angle groups, but at the range it's closer to eight inches.
Cosmoline
Member
It really does seem to be a lost art. A lot of folks have simply never used a properly calibrated set of quality irons. They seem to think that in order to hit something, you need to be able to see it in magnified detail. Good quality irons, like you'll find on CZ's and some military rifles, benefit from very fast acquisition and simple durability.
[cracks buggy whip and curses the cars]
[cracks buggy whip and curses the cars]
I think that people haven't used good quality irons much.
Many of them are a bit hard to see all that well, so they introduce error. Also, a dark indoor range can be hell on open sights -- but no problem with the right aperture sights.
If you read some older books about rifles, there is a lot written about good irons and how to choose them.
WardenWolf
member
Well, for me, iron sight usage is alive and well. At 100+ yards, though, I use a scope. My grouping is far better when I can actually see where I'm hitting. And my javelina kill was with iron sights, compensating for the sights being off. I hit it on the move, and it was a perfect heart and double lung shot. Perfectly drilled it, dead right there.
Boba Fett
Member
There's at least one range near me where you can only shoot from a bench! I didn't know it the first (and last) time I went there and was so annoyed. They make you shoot from a 1'x1' (approximately) hole! Probably the worst range I've ever been too...
I like the irons and I like scopes. But scopes can brake, and learning to shoot your irons is a necessary skill. Plus I just enjoy the irons more on certain rifles (e.g. AR-15, 22 Marlin).
Daveboone
Member
When I started hunting, I couldnt imagin a scoped gun without iron sights for back up. then around the mid 80s I could afford a Leupold scope, and from there out no iron sights with scopes. Absolutely un needed. BUT....I am not going into combat! If I would, I would certainly want to know my gun was on, and be instinctively familiar with my iron sights.
Two years ago I picked up a mid 50s production Win. 94 and but a Lyman aperture and ivory front bead on it. With that combination, I am shooting groups out to 75 yards dang tooting close to what my scoped rifles will do (from a rest). Open sights are certainly under rated for utility, but do not have the pin point of aim and light gathering options of scopes.
Two years ago I picked up a mid 50s production Win. 94 and but a Lyman aperture and ivory front bead on it. With that combination, I am shooting groups out to 75 yards dang tooting close to what my scoped rifles will do (from a rest). Open sights are certainly under rated for utility, but do not have the pin point of aim and light gathering options of scopes.
Shawn Dodson
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If I didn't shoot a million BBs out of BB guns when I was a kid then I came pretty darn close. I plain wore out BB guns from shooting them so much.
I became very skilled with BB gun iron sights and I'm proficient with iron sights to this day. I prefer iron sights to optics, even red dot optics. I dislike riflescopes because I don't like peering through a tube. I'm quicker on target with iron sights because all I have to do is mount my rifle and drive the front sight to my aim point; my front sight is always in the same location on my barrel and I reflexively know where it is - snap shots are, well, a snap! I'm accurate with iron sights out to long distances despite my poor eyesight.
I have an Aimpoint Comp ML3 I share between my M4s. I have it simply to be conversant with using a red dot optic. Other than dedicated training with it, I never use it. I simply like my iron sights.
Iron sights a dying skill? What a shame.
I became very skilled with BB gun iron sights and I'm proficient with iron sights to this day. I prefer iron sights to optics, even red dot optics. I dislike riflescopes because I don't like peering through a tube. I'm quicker on target with iron sights because all I have to do is mount my rifle and drive the front sight to my aim point; my front sight is always in the same location on my barrel and I reflexively know where it is - snap shots are, well, a snap! I'm accurate with iron sights out to long distances despite my poor eyesight.
I have an Aimpoint Comp ML3 I share between my M4s. I have it simply to be conversant with using a red dot optic. Other than dedicated training with it, I never use it. I simply like my iron sights.
Iron sights a dying skill? What a shame.
One time, I took a friend and his son shooting with me. I started them out w/ my scoped 10/22. They had fun w/ the ease of the scope, but I noticed the base was coming loose so I took it off and and just let them use the irons for the rest of the day. They play a lot of war video games so they had a decent understanding of how to line up the sights and they did pretty well.
Yeah, a lot of people want red dots and scopes because they are cool and easier to use but I am glad that those irons were on the rifle so they could continue shooting all day. (I determined that the QD rings were junk (barksa) and threw them out. and added some locktite to the base) I did give them a little instruction on using irons but they had the jist of it from playing video games, haha.
Yeah, a lot of people want red dots and scopes because they are cool and easier to use but I am glad that those irons were on the rifle so they could continue shooting all day. (I determined that the QD rings were junk (barksa) and threw them out. and added some locktite to the base) I did give them a little instruction on using irons but they had the jist of it from playing video games, haha.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
I think most people who regularly shoot with irons fall into an in between land, where they are competent enough to recognize the reliability of irons and are skilled enough to use them effectively, but don't want to put in the time to sight in and maintain an optic.
I don't have an optic on my AK and don't think it is worth it. The rifle is only minute of man anyway. I'm sure I could squeeze a little more accuracy out of it if I could see the target better, but I don't want to trade off the reliability.
Nevertheless I bet that for one squeeze of the trigger I can outshoot 25% of the people at the ranges I normally go to who pull out a fancy shmancy M4 with a scope and bipod, and 50% of the people who pull out a $1,000 plus stock rifle with a ginormous scope and $10 rings, since their scope will invariably need adjusting.
I don't have an optic on my AK and don't think it is worth it. The rifle is only minute of man anyway. I'm sure I could squeeze a little more accuracy out of it if I could see the target better, but I don't want to trade off the reliability.
Nevertheless I bet that for one squeeze of the trigger I can outshoot 25% of the people at the ranges I normally go to who pull out a fancy shmancy M4 with a scope and bipod, and 50% of the people who pull out a $1,000 plus stock rifle with a ginormous scope and $10 rings, since their scope will invariably need adjusting.
Ignition Override
Member
Having a very late start in life with guns, have never mounted rings etc and would not know how to sight in a scope, and they don't interest me (until my eyes go bad).
But the previous owner of my first Mauser (all-original Yugo 48A) killed a small deer from 200 yards with these irons sights.
And my 'gun guru' here set some records with his iron sight AR at both 200 and 600 yards.
Even the SKS can now be equipped with a new peep sight for the rear of the bolt cover.
Sold my Mosin Nagant 44 (bright bore/rifling) and can hit much better with the classic LE Jungle Carbine, LE #4, even with the Mauser's sights.
Prefer to be a throwback to the 'Iron Age' (prehistory: more like 'Stone Age'). Only classic non-modified military rifles appeal to me.
But the previous owner of my first Mauser (all-original Yugo 48A) killed a small deer from 200 yards with these irons sights.
And my 'gun guru' here set some records with his iron sight AR at both 200 and 600 yards.
Even the SKS can now be equipped with a new peep sight for the rear of the bolt cover.
Sold my Mosin Nagant 44 (bright bore/rifling) and can hit much better with the classic LE Jungle Carbine, LE #4, even with the Mauser's sights.
Prefer to be a throwback to the 'Iron Age' (prehistory: more like 'Stone Age'). Only classic non-modified military rifles appeal to me.
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I shoot with both, I dont care how tough or reliable a scope can be, if you want to rely on the firearm to protect you and your family, or your country, you need to know the sights like an extension of your own eyes. depends on the rifle, and its sights, adjustable sights I much prefer.
I dont use anything but sights on anything but a few rifles.
I have a neighbor who says he stopped shooting rifles years ago because of his vision, but I think he just prefers shooting clay pigeons over paper targets, or he may have never been a very good rifle shooter.
I dont use anything but sights on anything but a few rifles.
I have a neighbor who says he stopped shooting rifles years ago because of his vision, but I think he just prefers shooting clay pigeons over paper targets, or he may have never been a very good rifle shooter.
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