irrelevant and hypothetical

[bkjeffrey]

ATF says that more than one round fired with a single pull of the trigger is a machine gun.....

What if you had a rifle with two barrels each containing their own round of ammunition (ie: SxS shotgun, but rifle) and two seperate hammers and firing pins but one single trigger that simultaniously fired both rounds from both chambers? You end up with two shots fired with a single pull of the trigger.

TECHNICALLY that would be a machine gun correct?

Just curious........gun discussion for a gun forum

 

[Sam1911]

Ironic! Just had this thread which dug into that discussion:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=614199

 

[bkjeffrey]

Sam, that was a very interesting read. I am curious to see what the final ATF ruling says on Andy P's piece, especially regarding the antique status having an effect on volley fire vs. automatic...... Thanks for the link, I'll be following that one.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I had a 12 gauge O/U that went off both barrels with one pull of the trigger!

I was leaning back, shooting at crows overhead and I pulled the trigger and the upper barrel fired, and I was nearly over myself, the recoil let up and that caused my trigger finger to pull the trigger immediately! I was darned near dropped on my a$$!

I said to myself, MAN those are some Magnums! When I broke her open, two empties flew out!

It took me some time to realize just what happened. The let-up of the first recoil made my trigger finger press the trigger the moment it was released for the next shot. It just sounded like one huge BOOOOM! My neighbor asked what happened. At that point, I didn't know myself, I thought the gun malfunctioned, then after checking it all out, I realized the recoil with my loose grip on the gun, in combination with my falling over backwards caused the crazy event to occur.

I sold that gun. I hated the lack of drop at the stock. Each shot felt like someone was punching me in the right cheek!

 

[Strykervet]

Well, in WA, a firearm can be considered a "machinegun" if it can fire more than five (or maybe ten?) rounds per second. Semi or full. Basically a useless law since it can't be applied. See, in WA, you can't interpret the law, it is what it is. So when you have something this ambiguous, it is basically a novelty law, like no bathing except on Sunday in Southern states.

For instance, I just got a 3gun trigger, a Geissele. They claim that some shooter fired 12 rounds in 1.9 seconds. (I remember thinking this would be an illegal machinegun under state law, so it must be five per second.) So this is technically a machinegun under state law?

Kind of ridiculous if you ask me, and it is so obscure it isn't even enforced. It would be almost impossible to prove it anyway. I found it by mistake, but sure enough, it is there. So what that law REALLY tells me, is that given a certain trigger, I AM the machinegun, and therefore I AM illegal!?

See, it can't be the rifle. No sir. My wife can't fire five rounds a second with my M4 and 3gun trigger. I might though, I've never tried it. See how stupid this is?

 

[Sam Cade]

Well, in WA, a firearm can be considered a "machinegun" if it can fire more than five (or maybe ten?) rounds per second. Semi or full. Basically a useless law since it can't be applied. See, in WA, you can't interpret the law, it is what it is.

Bizzare.

(11) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.

You're good though.

 

[Aaron Baker]

No offense, Strykervet, but I disagree with your reading of Washington law. But that's good news for you!

It's an "AND" proposition. It has to be a gun where you don't have to press the trigger more than once for each shot AND it has to fire more than 5 shots per second.

What's interesting about Washington state law is that it's actually less restrictive than federal law. If the firearm doesn't have a separable mechanical device, then it's not a machinegun. In other words, if you used a built-in magazine that you loaded with individual rounds, it could fire full auto and not be a machinegun. It also sounds like it wouldn't be considered a machinegun if it only held five rounds because then no matter how quickly it fired, it wouldn't be more than 5 rounds per second.

Of course, even guns like that would be machineguns under federal law, so it doesn't get you anywhere.

But the "AND" part means that your semi trigger, no matter how fast you pull it, doesn't make your rifle a machinegun under Washington law.

Aaron (who is a lawyer, but not in Washington, and isn't your lawyer)