Is a 4 point a trophy?

[R.W.Dale]

As of late trophy hunting has more to do with animal husbandry than woods craft. With big deer being born, fed, bred and harvested with big antlers as a goal mother nature has less and less a hand in making the biggest trophies.

To me the Boon and Crocket book is kinda like the judging at the state fair for beef and swine.

 

[armedandsafe]

was a 60lb yearling. had people teasing me bout it

Ask those teasers if they like veal or lamb.

Pops

 

[jaholder1971]

Every deer is a trophy, some are just bigger than others.

Shoot it, eat it and enjoy the memory.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Why wouldn't a 4-point be a trophy?

Heck, even this three point is a pretty nice buck.

Not my pictures, just the first few I found with the decent 3 & 4 pointers.

 

[Charles S]

I personally am a meat hunter, however I won't turn down a trophy if it comes along.

Bow at 12 yards....for me this was a trophy!



Is this a record book deer? No... not even close, but it is a trophy to me.

Why do you hunt. If it is to kill a B&K deer then no a 4 point will not be a trophy. If however, you hunt for meat and the success of the hunt then a four point is indeed a trophy.

I love the hunt...to kill a wily old five year doe is an accomplishment no horns but a trophy to me.

The hunt is about more than the kill....it is about the camaraderie, the time out of doors, the camping, the skills, the rush of seeing deer and trying to outsmart them. The kill is the bonus and then the work begins.

To me a four point I worked for is a trophy. You have to decide for yourself what matters to you.

 

[springmom]

It seems to me that there's a difference between "a deer worth taking" and "a trophy". A trophy animal is one that is somehow unusual or special. Not every deer I am going to shoot in my lifetime is special, and ISTM that this is what Art's getting at. My little spike last year from the management hunt at Huntsville State Park was NOT a trophy. He was a spike, for heaven's sake. But that does not mean he wasn't worth taking, nor that he wasn't tasty (he was).

He was special, though, because he was my first ever.

This year's buck from our hunt in Mason County is, in fact, getting put up on the wall. He's no Boone & Crockett, but he was a gorgeous animal and deserves to be up there. If I get a young 4- or 6-point, will he also end up on the wall? Doubt it. Again, though, that doesn't mean he isn't worth taking, only that he isn't a trophy.

So is a 4 point a trophy? No. Is he a nice deer worth taking? Yes. Is he worth having mounted? Sure, if having it done will bring back great memories and make you happy.

But let's not dilute the term "trophy" to "any deer I am proud to have gotten", because that's not what it is.

Springmom

 

[marksman13]

Jorg, I don't think either of those deer qualify as a 3 or 4 point. The muley is a 4x4 maybe even a 5x5 and the other is definately an 8 point. You find me a fork horn whitetail with tines like that last one and I'll call him a trophy.

I think a trophy is an animal that you are proud of. I killed an 8 point last year that I am getting mounted, but I don't consider him a trophy because I shot him out the bathroom window. He's a nice deer there, but how the hell do you keep a straight face when you brag about shooting a deer out the window?

 

[chemist308]

It depends largely on the hunt. On some hunts a 4 point is a sign of impatience--much like shooting a button buck during anterless season. However on some public lands a 4 point is bragging rights. Many areas of PA have been absolutely destroyed by duplicate doe tags, 2 week antlerless seasons and antler restrictions that effectively remove the best genetics from the gene pool. Where I'm about to hunt in western PA tomorrow, a five point (legal deer) is considered a trophy.

 

[Art Eatman]

I dunno. I've killed a fair number of does, and a fair number of good-eatin' six- and eight-pointers. I just sorta took them for granted: Hunt deer, find deer, shoot deer, eat deer. No big deal. I just never really thought of the word "trophy" in connection with most of my deer.

I've killed a few big bucks that I had to work for. Find him, check him out against others in the general area--and then find him again. Finding that bragging buck a second time sorta brings a bigger grin than "just supper".

I gotta agree with those who don't really think that "trophy" should apply to these carefully-bred El Gigantico bucks. Improved pasture is great, but deer oughta come "natural", not like a bunch of registered Herefords worked up by the gene jockeys.

Art

 

[cracked butt]

any areas of PA have been absolutely destroyed by duplicate doe tags, 2 week antlerless seasons and antler restrictions that effectively remove the best genetics from the gene pool.

Most of my state (WI) has had several years of extended doe seasons, seamingly limitless issuance of doe tags, and more recently 'earn a buck' where in many management zones you have to tag a antlerless deer before you can shoot a buck. There are a lot of conflicting reports on what's happening- hunters in may areas bitch that there are few deer left, while the DNR claims that the state deer population is at or near an all time high.

As far as antler restrictions go, it sounds counterintuitive, but if you shoot the does and pass up on the yearling or 1.5 year old bucks and are limited to shooting older bucks, it actually does help the genetics over time. The bucks are allowed to mature another year before they can be culled, less does means more competition from dominant bucks for breeding and a higher likelyhood that mature bucks with good genes will be breeding rather than having an overabundance of does where the weaker bucks get breeding opportunities. The dominant mature bucks are a lot smarter than yearling or 1.5 year old bucks, and are much more difficult to take- most are taken out of dumb luck or by very experienced hunters who focus in on a single buck and put their time in. I used to be completely against QDM until more recently when friends of mine started reaping the benifits of their work on their land.

In the management unit that I hunt in, there has been no anterless quotas for a long time. Most of the bucks registered are spikers or scrubby looking forkhorns. I was lucky to shoot a large doe that the DNR agent aged at 3.5 years where I registered. Out of the 25 or so deer at the registration station at the end of opening day, mine was quite a bit bigger than most of the other deer registered, including most of the bucks.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Jorg, I don't think either of those deer qualify as a 3 or 4 point. The muley is a 4x4 maybe even a 5x5 and the other is definately an 8 point

Sorry, marksman13, just poking a little fun about that way you whitetail guys count all the points. Out here we only count one side, if they are the same, and don't count the eyeguards on mulies.

 

[marksman13]

Gotcha...cultural thing. I had heard of a 4x4, but I had never heard anyone call a 4x4 a 4 point. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Art Eatman]

I doubt if anybody knows how "Eastern Count" (all the tines) and "Western Count" (one side) came about. I sure don't, although I've read about it all my life.

Completely unimportant, to me, so long as I have a handle on where somebody's from. Easier about elk, of coure; not enough elk hunting to notice, "back east".

 

[skinewmexico]

I've always seen all the points counted on a whitetail, and side x side on mulies. And just think, Jorg, those mulies might have grown up into big deer!

And if your situation or opinion makes it a trophy, it's a trophy. I personally pass on a lot of bucks now, just because I want to give them more time to grow up....and I'd rather eat does.

 

[.41 magnum man]

Webster defines trophy as: "1. Anything taken in war, hunting, competition etc. especially when preserved as a momento; prize, spoil or award."

So if a man kills an enemy in war and takes his knife as a trophy, it is just as much a trophy as the man who took a rifle. A third place winner in a race gets a trophy, and it is just as much a trophy as the first place trophy. Sure we all want the biggest trophy we can get, but the person who has the ability to accept the lesser with joy, dignity, and pride is the real winner.

I personally have taken a spike, a 3 point, a 5 point, a 6, two 7 pointers, three 8 pointers and a 9. I have them displayed as trophies on my wall, and I am happy with them all. No one else got them, I did. Each one is unique. They are mine. I won them.

I personally have thought of taking a 4 pointer simply because I don't have one. If I made that my personal goal and accomplished it, then I would be proud of the achievement and that would be another special trophy to me.

 

[NASCAR_MAN]

I think people worry too much about getting "Muy Grande" or some such mythical buck. Just have fun hunting deer...and, if you're lucky, maybe a really big one will happen your way.

NASCAR

 

[ZeroJunk]

Since posters to this forum live all over the country,world in fact,it is a mistake to make many things one size fits all.I can remember when there were no deer here. None. The wildlife service reintroduced them in the early 60's. When the first seasons opened it was a big deal to even see sign of a deer, much less kill one. Any buck was a big deal. Now that they are plentiful what is considered a trophy has moved up in size. My definition of a trophy is one larger than I have killed in the past. But, if I killed the biggest deer in the county the guys in Kansas would call it a midget.

 

[skidooman]

My dad usually shoots the first thing he sees, granted its close enough to the road, I do make fun of him, telling him they are too small, he says the only thing wrong with any deer is it isnt cut and wrapped. But I'm never serious and he knows that. He also pokes fun of me for walking miles over mountain ranges and ending up with tag soup. I have shot a 5x7 26" mulie, its the largest to date, and I almost passed him up, but my uncle talked me into shooting him. Glad I did. I like to pass up the smaller bucks just because I feel as if I have accomplished more if I get a bigger buck, they are smarter and have eluded other hunters. However any animal taken you should be proud of.

This is the truth right here.

the hunt itself and the memories are the trophy - not the animal.

 

[Joe Demko]

It's how hard you worked for it. I have a monster white tail buck rack hanging in my living room. He was a big, mature guy of maybe 5 years and the rack is a massively thick 9 point with a a couple brow tines not quite big enough for me to consider them points. Biggest deer I ever killed, he was.
The story is less magnificent. It was a pleasantly warm day. I was sitting in my treestand with my jacket off enjoying the sunshine and a cup of coffee. In broad daylight, he came moseying down the trail like the world is a friendly place. I put down my coffee, picked up my Savage Model 99 and dropped him with one shot. I didn't even have to drag him far. he was close enough to a tram road to just go get the pick-up truck. By 9:30 AM he was at the butcher and I was at the house eating eggs.
So there's this great rack hanging in my living room that isn't really a trophy. I don't know how a buck as incautious as he lived to be that old!
I shot much lesser deer that I conisder trophies compared to him. Hell, I've shot rabbits I had to work so hard to get that they were trophies compared to him.

 

[unreal45]

If it is the biggest deer you have shot then a four point is a trophy. I used to hunt public land and most of the hunters were glad to see a deer much less kill a buck.
Sometimes the work you put into it makes a deer a trophy. The first buck I killed with a bow (an eight point) is hanging on my wall, even though I have killed deer that were bigger and I didn't mount all of them.
To me a trophy is a mature buck with a nice heavy rack I dont worry so much about the number of points. I have let many 2-6 points walk, sometimes I here a gunshot shortly after. There are some friends I hunt with that have never shot a buck so I hope they will get a krack at em.

 

[berettashotgun]

My youngest sons proudest moment came when he got a TINY trophy for 3rd place in a youth fishing tournament. 2.5lb crappie ain't bad for 3rd largest fish, including bass and catfish. That "trophy" is a standard.
Now shooting a four point with an arrow,ball, or bullet depends on the situation for me. Laying down in the only weed patch in Kiowa county and having a doe stick her nose on the small of my exposed neck - that pic would have been my trophy.

 

[stevereno1]

A 2.5 lb Crappie is definately a wall hanger! but I'd still probably just make a few sammies out of it.

 

[rc109a]

My trophy buck is my very first deer. It was a three pointer shot on opening day 1 minute after legal shooting time commenced. I was told by several older hunters that it was all right to come out empty handed since I was so young and inexperienced. That deer was the proudest moment of my hunting life. I also had the honor of watching one of those gentalman tell me how I was field dressing it all wrong and took my knife away to show me how it was done. Then as he started he almost cut his fingers off showing me "how to do it right" (cut three fingers so bad he went to the hospital and got 20 stitches). I had to laught a bit... I was young, what do you expect....lol

 

[mustanger98]

Regarding post #1

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but here's my opinion concerning the OP...

I believe that any animal that a hunter chooses to take, be it a 180 class booner, or a small 4, or 6 pointer is a trophy, was given to the hunter by God, and should not be made fun of, but rather embraced as a true trophy. Any thoughts?

I agree. It's not all about how big the rack is so much as how the hunt played out and the meat the hunter is blessed with. Most "real trophies" seem to come off of managed private land with high fees. However, everywhere else, there are bigger and smaller bucks of different age groups. Most of us are probably lucky enough to have the option to take a buck with a smaller rack most of the time. But then, if a guy happens to be in the right place at the right time and the ol' big'un walks out and the guy gets him, he's suddenly everybody's hero. He didn't necessarily do anything special, yet everybody's so antler-obsessed they can't see the steaks are probably just as good on the buck with the smaller rack.

Here's another thing... the rack size ain't dependent on the bucks age. Even if an old buck (7yrs+) has a small rack, he's still a trophy because for one thing, he didn't get that old by being stupid.

Thanksgiving Day of last year, I killed a 3-4 year old buck... he had three points. I still have those antlers. We've eaten most of the meat... that's some good meat. Thing is, he was built thick and heavy and he was packing more fat than we'd usually seen. Thing is, a retired game warden told me, from looking at those antlers, that my buck was inbred and needed removing from the gene pool. Not only that, while we were cutting that one up, we found he'd been packing somebody's broadhead and 10-12" of aluminum arrow shaft diagonally under his spine, back over his guts. That arrow wasn't new either, but it didn't keep him from running does. Still, there's two reasons he didn't need to be out there. The real wierd part... I missed this buck the Friday before Thanksgiving, then I missed him again the day before Thanksgiving. Don't ask me why I missed; adrenaline's wierd, even with smaller racks, sometimes. But, I went to the range and checked my rifle's sights Thanksgiving afternoon and got right back out there that evening... got him 20minutes before dark. Was it God sent him back around so I'd have a second or third chance, or was this buck just so intent on the does? Either way, I was blessed with a good kill and good meat for my efforts.

Now, on to the rest of the thread...

 

[publiuss]

Really depends on what you're after. I killlled an 8 point with an 18 in spread this past weekend and was not happy with myself because it was a young deer with much less antler mass than I had estimated. I would have loved to kill that deer next year when he would be much bigger. I also would have loved for my little sister to kill it this year. It would have been a true trophy for her. I say this to make the point that a 4 year old 4 point would be a trophy to me, a 1 year old would not.