Is a Mosin just something to have?

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clubsoda22

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I mean, new in the cosmoline for $100...is it just something to buy so you can have one?

Anyone make a scout scope mount for the carbine? I think a mosin carbine with a low power scout scope would be a killer combo. What kinda accuracy do they give?
 
first off, they're good, basic rifles. Very heavy-duty, built like a tank.

There is a very good, from what I've read, scout mount made. Look here -http://pub113.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85.showMessage?topicID=133.topic

If you want a carbine to do the scout rifle thing, get the M38 instead of the M44. The M44 has an attached folding bayonet that adds a lot of weight to the muzzle end. No bayonet on the M38. other than that, they're pretty much the same rifle.

Oh, there's no such thing as a "new in the cosmoline" Mosin-Nagant. "arsenal refurbished in the cosmoline" is more accurate.

Dave
 
The M44 and a 4 power LER pistol scope IS a killer combo - We just got ours sighted in last week, and what a pleasure to shoot! Very accurate (~1MOA at 100 yards), and we don't find the bayonet to be too heavy. Be careful about the M38s, as a number of them have been counterbored, which may affect your accuracy. With ammo ~7.5 cents a round for Czech silver tip, what is there not to like about this little rifle? We picked ours up from Southern Ohio guns for $49.00, and it is one of the best Curio and Relic purchases we have ever made!
 
hmm...i wonder if there's anyone in my neighborhood that has a C&R. Have him buy one then sell it to me....come to think of it, my dad might be friends with one.

They're down to $40 on SOG.
 
If you have a C&R licensed individual buy a firearm for you and then sell it to you, that is an open invitation for the C&R guy to be visited by the people in the Black Suits. :uhoh:

Very illegal activity there.

David.
 
really, c&r's can't make private sales? That's kinda screwed up. What if they don't want a rifle anymore? I was going under the assumption that if joe average buys a rifle then wants to sell it to his friend, all he has to do is give it to him.

What have they gotta do, transfer it through a FFL?

I think there's a kitchen table guy in my neighborhood who wil do it for $5
 
I have an M44 and a 91/30...just couldn't pass them up at the price. Have only really shot them a little, but, geez, the history on them is great. Can't afford NOT to get them.

Both were bought on my C&R. Yes, you can sell firearms you buy on a C&R but it must be done in the spirit of "enhancing your collection"...e.g., can't buy specifically for the purpose of turning them around for resale. Leaves a lot of gray area though.
 
If your into WW2 guns for historical purposes and for the fun of shooting antique weapons they are great. As a modern hunting weapon I think you could fine better choices. I personally want to pick up an M1 Garand, K98 and a Mosin to get my WW2 firearms collection started.
Pat
 
A regular Mosin-Nagant is something nice to have just to say you have one and they are economical to buy and shoot. However, and M39 is a must have. Even though they cost quite a bit more than your run of the mill Comblock Mosin, the M39 is a real value for the price.

The best part is you can visit WG&A's website and buy one that's a legal antique. That means it can be shipped right to your house without an FFL. They don't have much on the list now, but check back periodically. Sometimes they have a large list of antique M39s to choose from.
 
There may be someone at the PA Gathering with a C&R license. I invited him but he wasn't 100% sure he was coming. I know he can get them.
 
They're down to $40 on SOG.

AIM & Aztec have them for $50. For $40 you get what you would expect to for a $40 rifle. For $10 more however you can get one in pristine condition. Now I don't mind getting a $40 project rifle to tinker with & restore to great condition, however when I can get the end result for $10 more .... ;) .

really, c&r's can't make private sales? That's kinda screwed up. What if they don't want a rifle anymore? I was going under the assumption that if joe average buys a rifle then wants to sell it to his friend, all he has to do is give it to him.

Yes, you can sell firearms you buy on a C&R but it must be done in the spirit of "enhancing your collection"...e.g., can't buy specifically for the purpose of turning them around for resale.

Have your friend buy two of them, he keeps the best one & sells you the other. Shipping is cheaper for more than one rifle at a time so buying two of them makes sense. However if you have him do this you ought to pick up the shipping charges on both in addition to paying for the rifle as a nice gesture.

Greg
 
You can make private sales when you have your C&R license but like Win75 said, It puts a spotlight on you. It puts up a flag to the ATF when you order a firearm and immediatly transfer it. It's a license to collect, not deal.
 
ATF will never know unless they check your bound book.

But IF they DO check your book, and there's a lot of quick transfers of single guns, then you'll have to answer some uncomfortable questions.

If you order 3 of a particular gun, and sell 2, then you can claim you kept the "Best" one for your collection. That's ok, as long as your intent is as such, and not to be "Dealing".

As iamkris stated, there's a lot of gray area there. ATF has better things to do than knock down the door of a guy selling a few C&R guns. By the same token, they would not hesitate to rake you over the coals if it was obvious that you were abusing the C&R license to make money.
 
I sell my C&R's all the time

I like to buy 5 at a time keep the best and cull the other 4. I make just enough money to pay for the 5, instant free rifle. My local ATF guru says all is good unless I sell 5 and make my truck payment.

I think the Mosin's have excellent sights as is, I've got a Hungarian M44 that I can do 1.5 inch 5 shot groups at 100yrds. Just how dead do you want to shoot something?
 
I'll admit it, I just had to have one. A bolt rifle with the power of a 308/30'06 for under a $100 is hard to beat. I saw many at the last show for $$50-$80 range. I paid a little more for mine because I wanted a laminate stock and it had all matching numbers.
 

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I have sold C&R firearms but only when I did so to purchase another/better condition firearm.

I do not and will not do the 5 fer's or 4 fer's, cull the worst, and keep the best. I think that is inviting a visit.

AND, I will not buy a rifle with my license specifcally for my buddy.

Others with a C&R, I guess can do as they please. Not my neck.

David.
 
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I'm mostly interested in turning this into a handy little sub $200 scout rifle. Don't worry, the gun will never see black plastic :D That would just be wrong.

I'd like to get a m44 in very nice condition, lightly sand the stock and oil it. Mount a LER scope on a scout mount and install a bipod. Remove the bayonett.

Of course, the first thing fslflint said when i told him about my project was put on one of those ATN black plastic stocks, so i smacked him upside the head. You just don't replace a good looking wood stock to be "tactical". The second thing he said was, "order one for me" I think it would work out having the C&R buy 3 and "keep the best." I'd of course pay all shipping.
 
I got a "scout" scope mount for my M44 in the mail a few days ago. The email address to hit is:

[email protected]

It was $50 when I ordered mine. That might have been a special. I'll be honest, when I pulled the parts out of the bag I thought "I paid $50 for this?" Then I got it mounted -- and I thought "I only paid $50 for this!" I like it. I put a 4x LER scope on it from NCStar (as recommended by m39scout) and I'm fairly happy with it. The rings wiggled loose (not the fault of the mount -- just my inexperience with mounting scopes!) so I didn't get any real good groups with it yet. I'll give it a run this weekend again I hope.

It's heavy gun, the M44, but it's solid. You can't hurt it. I'm a small guy, and I've never hunted, but I doubt I'll have any complaints about carrying this thing around in the woods. Use the bayonet for a make-shift gun rack and use the buttstock to pound tent stakes. This thing is SOLID. I firmly beleive that you could not get a gun made this robust today in the USA for less than $1k. Nobody wants a gun made this heavy and solid though anymore so you just don't see them.

Maybe it's because I'm a history buff, but I like shooting it far more than my AR or AK.
 
I'd probably put a better scope on mine than an NCstar. not to bash your buy, but i've heared less than rave reviews. I think a burris handgun scope would do the trick. Hard not to spend more on optics than the rifle if the gun's only $50.
 
Okiecruffler, I'm just guessing by your name that you are a lot more knowledgeable than I about the regulations, not to mention the fact that you're checking with your local ATF guy. But still, even if it works for you, I'm not sure everyone else could or should expect the same treatment. I'll say no more.
 
the M44 I picked up for 40 bucks on a whim has a cracked stock, and rusted nasty rear sight.

I think I may go ahead and make it into a scout, just for the heck of it.

I ordered another stock, one of the late manufacture ones. I'm gonna put the original hungarian away, then I'm going to buy a scope mount for it, refinish the stock in a nice deep cherry, pit a buttpad on it, new nylon sling, LER scope, and voila...


The rifling on the thing is nice, but everything else needs care. A good cleaning and greasing is in order.


James
 
Just a word on the NcStar's

I've been using alot of them lately, mostly on my contenders, but one 2X on an M44. I haven't had any problems with the scopes, but those rings are just absolute junk not even fit for rimfires.

As far as my 5fer deals, I made sure it was kosher with my local, it's an ATF gal actually, agent. The regulations are just too confusing for a college boy like myself, and some (the SKS abortion for instance) are too confusing even for her. I would suggest that is you have a C&R you get to know your local agent, most don't have horns, some of them are even human.
 
C&R Licenses and Sporterizing M44's

A couple of comments here:

You CAN sell firearms purchased with a C&R license, but only "for the purposes of improving the collection." So if you are a collector with a C&R license and buy a new M44, then sell your old one, that's legitimate because supposedly the new one was an improvement over the old one. Secondly, while you can sell your C&R firearm for what you have in it, plus whatever market appreciation has occurred, you cannot make more of a profit out of it than that. If there hasn't been market appreciation (the M44's have actually DROPPED in price over the past three years), then you can charge something for your time cleaning it up, headspacing it, and so on -- but not too much. Twenty-five dollars is a reasonable amount and to keep the BATF happy be ready to show how you spent that money on your firearm collection.

BUT if you use your C&R license to buy something INTENDED to be sold to someone else, and especially if you sell it for a 20% or better markup ... you may be in deep doo-doo.

Instead of trying to find a C&R license holder to buy something for you, get your own C&R license. It costs you all of $30.00 for three years -- TEN DOLLARS A YEAR -- plus filling out the application which you can print out from the BATF website. Then, there IS a little bit of paperwork, but it's not bad. Just buy a bound record book and fill in a line for each purchase.

For that you gain the ability to order C&R firearms from wholesalers at near wholesale price. One good rifle and the $30.00 is nothing. Of course, it gets addictive: I've had my license for about five years now, and got it so I could get an EG Makarov. I've gone from "having no need for a rifle" to owning seven of them -- and I am a piker. Most collectors won't consider you a collector until you hit 100 or more!

About M44's and Mosins in general: they are exceedingly accurate rifles. The Finn M39's are arguably the most accurate general issue military rifle ever. The bolt and action design is extremely simple and rugged -- the Russians built these to withstand use by totally uneducated peasants. Finally, you may want to do what I did for a fun project: Take an M44 -- not collector grade, but one of the cheapos currently sold by SOG (and I bought mine when "cheapo" meant $59.95!). Get it headspaced, check the bore, and try it out. If if seems like a pretty good gun, make a sporter out of it by:

1) Remove the bayonet by unscrewing the bolt holding it in. Now some people say you can use a punch to remove the pins and with heat remove the bayonet mount, but I couldn't even get the pins to budge. So I took a hacksaw to the ears of the bayonet, then used bands of emery paper to smooth it down into a ring. Finally, I reblued it with cold blue. But once you do it, the rifle will shoot way high using the iron sights. Sand down the groove in the stock for the bayonet and refinish the stock (I used potassium permaganate and oil to make my stock look like a little brother to a Sako M39.)

2) Get one of Darrell's scope mounts mentioned above. Since he handmakes them, you may have to wait a few months.

3) Get one of the scopes mentioned above from CDNN Investments (they have great service and seem to have the lowest prices around).

4) Get a nice leather lace-on recoil pad. Without a recoil pad, these beasts with turn your shoulder black and blue within 50 rounds.

5) Finally, spend $35.00 and get the muzzle brake from Pacific Canvas and Leather.

With all that, my M44 has the same perceived recoil as an SKS. It becomes very comfortable to shoot for extended periods of time. Of course, by the time you're done, you'll have more than $200.00 in the gun and find it just about impossible to sell. But if it shoots like mine, it's a keeper, anyhow.:)
 
So Lynn, let me make sure I understand what you're saying-

I can use my C&R to make a semi-bulk purchase of rifles, say M44s. Say a place has them for $60 each individually, but $55 each if you buy 5 or more. So I buy 5, costing me $275, round it up to $300 with shipping. I clean them up, then chose the best one to keep. Sell the remaining 4 for $75 to compensate me for my time. 4x$75=$300. So, I've just gotten an M44 for the price of some mineral spirits, rags, and a few hours in the garage.

All perfectly legal, if I'm understanding what you've said.

Oh, and I'd beg to differ on the M39 being the most accurate milsurp bolt gun. My vote is the K-31. But that's just me.
 
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